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Thread: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

  1. #61
    Registered User dolphan117's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by FINintheMOON
    I disagree... Houck, in both of the previous years, made adjustments throughout each season that seen much better play from the OL. In both seasons there were new players on the line. This year he has a couple of rookies that he will try to put in but he does still have the bulk of the OL he had last year...
    This is especialy true in the first year he was here when we gave up (if memory serves) the 4th fewest sacks in the league. He did an outstanding job that year.

    Last year we started with LJ Shelton at LT where he sucked it up.... We eventialy put Damian Mcintosh at LT and moved Shelton to RG which helped a lot. By the end of the year the O line play was pretty good but that first half of the season was rough.

    IMO he did an above average job both years but the line is still a concern, last years RT moved to LT, a new LG (possibly a rookie), rookie center, Hadnot moved back to RG where he had success before being moved to center, and last years awful LT/good RG Shelton moved to RT. That's quite a few moving parts.

    If anyone can do it though Houck can, set up those lines for the Cowboys during their SB runs and then was responsible for setting up the lines for LT in SD before coming here. Very, very, highly regarded coach.

  2. #62
    Ole' Ralphie SCROOGE patmoran2006's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    I like Miami's staff.

    I just think its going to take more than one season to put the right personnel in place, which is totally not uncommon.


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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphan117
    This is especialy true in the first year he was here when we gave up (if memory serves) the 4th fewest sacks in the league. He did an outstanding job that year.
    That had a lot to do with Gus Frerotte, who got sacked in Miami at his career rate.
    Last year we started with LJ Shelton at LT where he sucked it up.... We eventialy put Damian Mcintosh at LT and moved Shelton to RG which helped a lot. By the end of the year the O line play was pretty good but that first half of the season was rough.
    It was rough because Culpepper was a career 3 sack/game QB, while Harrington was not. Also the Dols are going to put Shelton back at OT, which is a mistake IMHO.
    IMO he did an above average job both years but the line is still a concern, last years RT moved to LT, a new LG (possibly a rookie), rookie center, Hadnot moved back to RG where he had success before being moved to center, and last years awful LT/good RG Shelton moved to RT. That's quite a few moving parts.
    The key will be if Carey can be a good LT. I doubt it. He's a classic RT and would have done well staying there. I've already made my feelings on Shelton known. And I agree that Hadnot is a good RG and better than what the Bills have, until proven otherwise. But starting a rookie at center and at LG having Liwienski, who couldn't even start for the Cards, or a rookie, is going to be pretty rough.

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    Registered User dolphan117's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by patmoran2006
    I like Miami's staff.

    I just think its going to take more than one season to put the right personnel in place, which is totally not uncommon.
    Agreed, the Saints last year showed that one year turnarounds can happen but I think they are MUCH more the exception then the rule. For this year I am aiming low and hoping for a pleasant surprise.... However it turns out it will be a fun ride, at least we will have football to watch.

    Other than the draft this offseason stuff really blows.

  5. #65
    Registered User dolphan117's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal
    That had a lot to do with Gus Frerotte, who got sacked in Miami at his career rate.
    I agree Gus did have something to do with it as did the offensive scheme of Stott Linehan. IMO a huge factor in offensive line play/sacks is whether or not an offense is predictable pre snap and can execute things like screens/draws to slow down the pass rush. Under Scotty we were an outstanding draw team, under MM we were pitiful at screens.
    It was rough because Culpepper was a career 3 sack/game QB, while Harrington was not. Also the Dols are going to put Shelton back at OT, which is a mistake IMHO.

    The key will be if Carey can be a good LT. I doubt it. He's a classic RT and would have done well staying there. I've already made my feelings on Shelton known. And I agree that Hadnot is a good RG and better than what the Bills have, until proven otherwise. But starting a rookie at center and at LG having Liwienski, who couldn't even start for the Cards, or a rookie, is going to be pretty rough.
    Harrington may have gotten the ball out quicker but as the year went on our pass and run blocking both made serious strides, especially on the right side with Shelton at RG and Carey at LT.

    Only time will tell whether Carey can be a LT. He was a lot better than most people know last year and was both our most consistent and best overall guy on that line. One other note to throw in here on Carey is that he was actually considered at LT during preseason two years ago, reportedly looked dam good there actually before being put at RT because if we had kept him there we would have had to play Damian McIntosh at RT a position he didn't want to play and felt his technique didn't fit.

    On Shelton I just don't know, he was abismally bad at LT last year and struggled in pass protection while playing pretty well at RG. At RT he will no longer be facing the D's number one pass rusher so hopefully he will do better in pass pro and will probably continue to be pretty good in the run game.

    Agreed somewhat about the center and LG positions, I like the idea of getting our young guys in there so Satele at center is fine with me, but LG is a bit of a question.

    The thing about O lines though is that it isn't all about having the most dominant players, its more about having 5 guys that understand the scheme and play well together. (although obviously they still need talent) Last year the Vikings went out and signed Seattle's Hutchinson while already having McKinnie at LT.... And that line pretty much sucked.

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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphan117
    Harrington may have gotten the ball out quicker but as the year went on our pass and run blocking both made serious strides, especially on the right side with Shelton at RG and Carey at (edited) RT.
    The switch of Shelton and McIntosh from RG to LT and vice versa happened after week 5, while the switch of QB's happened after week 4. That means that Harrington had 1 game (NE) where he had the old OL configuration, and the Pats managed 1 sack in that game. And looking at Brown's rushing totals, while he had higher averages after the switch, the Dols also played worse rush defenses. The exception being the Bears game. Hard to draw a conclusion that things definitely got better after the switch. And in any case, the Dols are moving Shelton to OT again. That move to me sounds more like a Cameron move than a Houck move.
    Only time will tell whether Carey can be a LT. He was a lot better than most people know last year and was both our most consistent and best overall guy on that line. One other note to throw in here on Carey is that he was actually considered at LT during preseason two years ago, reportedly looked dam good there actually before being put at RT because if we had kept him there we would have had to play Damian McIntosh at RT a position he didn't want to play and felt his technique didn't fit.
    I agree that Carey was your best OL. But you play your best candidate at LT, period. It's THE most important position on the O-line. McIntosh is an average-at-best LT and would have been no worse at RT than he was at LT. If he dictated where he wanted to play, that's not good on Houck. And still, they should have played Carey at LT LAST year, and found a better RT candidate if McIntosh was so horrible there.
    On Shelton I just don't know, he was abismally bad at LT last year and struggled in pass protection while playing pretty well at RG. At RT he will no longer be facing the D's number one pass rusher so hopefully he will do better in pass pro and will probably continue to be pretty good in the run game.
    Shelton played RT with the Cards and was abyssmal there as well. The guy is NOT an OT.
    Agreed somewhat about the center and LG positions, I like the idea of getting our young guys in there so Satele at center is fine with me, but LG is a bit of a question.
    I don't disagree with getting your young guys in there ASAP, especially high picks. That doesn't mean they won't still struggle, at least initially, and I never said that Miami's O-line was going to suck forever, or even next year.
    The thing about O lines though is that it isn't all about having the most dominant players, its more about having 5 guys that understand the scheme and play well together. (although obviously they still need talent) Last year the Vikings went out and signed Seattle's Hutchinson while already having McKinnie at LT.... And that line pretty much sucked.
    Can't comment too much on the Vikes' situation. But they DID have a new coaching staff/scheme.

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    Registered User arsenal's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    yeah this thread is long and i didn't read the whole thing... but you guys should know the value of just not having Mike Mularkey call plays for us anymore... that is huge, especially then going to a proven quality playcaller...

    when our oline had troubles with Mularkey there, nothing changed, he would still call his fake end around play action pass when our blockers couldn't hold a block for ****... and then he'd wonder why we lost 10 yards on a sack...

    Cameron is a much smarter playcaller and he will do whats needed to make the offense successful... having Green is huge if you look at what our QB situation was last year, plus we have more speed on offense, and we'll have better field position with special teams to begin with...

    all that = offense improved...

  8. #68
    Registered User Crisis's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by feelthepain
    How do you consider the Bills 28th overall Offense with no key injuries, better then Miami's 20th overall offense, with their backup QB who was with the team all of 6 months and had very few snaps with the first team in camp? I mean seriously, you consider the Bills offense better, but Miami gave up less sacks with Oline injuries then a healthy Bills Oline. Miami has a new HC/OC yes, but they also have plenty of experience in the coaching staff with HC experience in Dom Capers.

    Cam won't have anything to do with the Defense that will be Doms job so all Cam has to do is what he's been doing for the last few years, coach the offense. You also act as if changing HC is a guarantee a teams will not succeed. I think thats been proven wrong many times over. New HC's and schemes can be very successful in their first year. To be honest I think the reason the Dolphins are better on offense is because the only thing Miami has been missing to succeed on offense has been playcalling. Maimi has been way to conservative over the past 8 years, we have always played things close to the vest and let our Defense win games.

    The one year we had Scott Linehan we opened up the offense and we won our last six games. Chris Chambers made the probowl and Miami had some balance. Cam is the same verticle open things up kinda coach. Maimi will stretch the field vertically that will open up the rushing lanes and Miami will have more options. All Miami needs is a top 15 offense to make the playoffs, if we can finish 20th overall with what we had last year there is no reason we can't imporve 5 spots with what we have now.
    same song and dance every offseason, but completely wrong once the season starts.
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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Bumped and Stuck for FeelthePain's Ode to Duante!

    Good Stuff.

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    Re: Wow, where did Miami become improved on offense?

    Kudos to Justafan!

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