Ronnie Brown not looking too good.

[HHURRICANE]

McNally matches up to Houck. I would put Jauron ahead of Cam.

On paper(players), no doubt we're better. LJ Shelton is up there on age and he's been average at best. LT's don't grow on trees.

I actually was going to do a breakdown the individual weaknesses of the Miami line like I did a few months ago but I'm not sure who any of the starters are going to be at this point.

Neither can any of the Miami fans which makes any post about their line ridiculous at this point.

However, if any Miami fan would like to break it down, have at it.

You can use: Peters-Dockery-Fowler-Preston-Walker as our starters.

In addition, Butler (RT), Whittle (RG) and and Pennington (LT, even though he played RT last year) would all be in contention for starting jobs as starters in Miami.

[justasportsfan]

People have a right to doubt the Dolphins right now, saying our O-line is improved doesn't hold much weight until we prove that we are better then the past few years. I feel we are headed in a better direction, but until i see some results, it is hard to put up much of a fight about our team.

nice post. I'm not saying our OL is gonna be better but we have a better perspective since we're in our 2nd year of rebuild while you're in your first. Your OL will have to get acquainted first with your qb and then each other.

I've read reports (not always accurate) that Greens blinside protection Shelton isnt doing very well. You better not lose Green in preseason. Lemon better be ready.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

we're one year ahead .

Other than Allen who is living up to his billing( a bust), Travis "where did Evans go?" Daniels , Channing "crossdresser" Crowder and Matt " meanstreakbutcan'tdoiton field" Roth (I'll Take Kelsay over him ANYDAY)I don't know who the rest are. I do like our youngsters over yours though.

Hopefully Brown continues to underachieve although I think he'll be a beast and Booker should be way better than Travis Minor.

Your OL still blows. You will find out soon enough.

All in all I do agree, both teams are questionable but I think we have a better headstart thanks to Sabanstedt.

The team is returning 9 starters from the #4 rated defense. They added Joey Porter and Matt Roth will step in for Kevin Carter. Clearly they can be very very good on defense. The Bills are years away from matching the Fins defensively.

On offense, the Bills only averaged 2.6 more points per game than a very bad Fins offense. IMO, Losman is still a question mark. Lynch is a question mark. I don't like any of your receivers other than Lee Evans. The OL should be better but will still be a middle of the pack OL at best.

The Fins need the OL to play better than last season. On paper they match up very well against the Bills offense:

Green > Losman
Brown > Lynch
Fins WRs > Bills WRs
Fins OL < Bills OL
Fins TE > Bills TE

IMO, the two biggest problems last season on offense were the OC and the QB. Both are different and there for have a chance to be better. Despite my rankings by position, I give the edge to the Bills on offense because there has been more stability from last season, but lets not forget that the Bills were not that good last year.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

nice post. I'm not saying our OL is gonna be better but we have a better perspective since we're in our 2nd year of rebuild while you're in your first. Your OL will have to get acquainted first with your qb and then each other.

I've read reports (not always accurate) that Greens blinside protection Shelton isnt doing very well. You better not lose Green in preseason. Lemon better be ready.

I agree that the Fins need to show it on the field. Everything else is just talk. The same applies to the Bills. They need to score more than 18 points per game.

BTW, Shelton is not the LT so whatever reports you are reading are not accurate. Shelton has been with the 2nd team in an effort to motivate him to drop some weight. They are only asking him to drop 15 lbs. That's not a lot when you weigh 347. A little exlax should do it.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

We went out and signed Dockery and Walker as well, OFCOURSE we're going to be excited about our OL. FINALLY we have a competent GM & FO. Me and countless other people here have been complaining about our ****ty OL in previous years past, it's just finally nice to see the need get addressed.

Your FO had a 50% success rate last year. Can we expect the same this year? Which one bombs, Dockery or Walker?

[FinFaninBuffalo]

I actually was going to do a breakdown the individual weaknesses of the Miami line like I did a few months ago but I'm not sure who any of the starters are going to be at this point.

Neither can any of the Miami fans which makes any post about their line ridiculous at this point.

However, if any Miami fan would like to break it down, have at it.

You can use: Peters-Dockery-Fowler-Preston-Walker as our starters.

In addition, Butler (RT), Whittle (RG) and and Pennington (LT, even though he played RT last year) would all be in contention for starting jobs as starters in Miami.

I hate to break this to you but the Bills OL has many question marks. Why do you keep pretending that the Bills OL was anything other than terrible last season? They added an decent LG and a horrible RT to a very bad OL.

LT - solid
LG - solid
C - average
RG - below average
RT - 10.5 sacks allows last year. Bad. Bad. Bad.

The Fins have more question marks but that doesn't guarantee they will be worse.

[PECKERWOOD]

Your FO had a 50% success rate last year. Can we expect the same this year? Which one bombs, Dockery or Walker?

Did Miami add any upcoming talent to their OL this year FinFanInBuffalo? Funny how you criticize our FO for actually attempting to fix and build our OL, your FO didn't do ****. Wow, you added a no name center and even if he were to succeed, you still don't have a decent LT to protect whatever crappy QB you choose to start. Green is going to get another concussion quick behind your OL. Even with your bull**** 50% success rate number it would still prove to be an upgrade over last years OL even if Dock or Walker were to fail. Derrrr...!

Did you pull that 50% success rate from out of your ass? Or unless you can determine if a player is going to be a bust with barely any playing time in a one-year span, I think you're talking purely from your poop shaft. Also, A-Train and Tripplett both proved to be quality addittions last year and to say otherwise proves to everyone on this forum that you didn't watch ANY Bills football last year.

Edit: Said Edwards instead of Green.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Did Miami add any upcoming talent to their OL this year FinFanInBuffalo? Funny how you criticize our FO for actually attempting to fix and build our OL, your FO didn't do ****. Wow, you added a no name center and even if he were to succeed, you still don't have a decent LT to protect whatever crappy QB you choose to start. Edwards is going to get another concussion quick behind your OL. Even with your bull**** 50% success rate number it would still prove to be an upgrade over last years OL even if Dock or Walker were to fail. Derrrr...!

Edwards? Perhaps you're expected Trent Edwards to start for the Bills and get his bell rung?

For the record, the Fins are building their OL via the draft. Their current starters are:

Carey - Mormino - Satele - Hadnot - Alabi

3 of them were not on the starting OL last year. By my count, thats MORE changes than the Bills made. Perhaps you should get some facts before typing. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they won't be any good.

Did you pull that 50% success rate from out of your ass? Or unless you can determine if a player is going to be a bust with barely any playing time in a one-year span, I think you're talking purely from your poop shaft. Also, A-Train and Tripplett both proved to be quality addittions last year and to say otherwise proves to everyone on this forum that you didn't watch ANY Bills football last year.

We were talking about the FO addressing the OL. They added Fowler and Reyes last season. Fowler is the starting center. Reyes finished the season as third string. 1 out of 2 free agent moves on the OL last season worked. That's 50%.

Anthony Thomas had 378 yards rushing last season. Hardly anything to crow about. Tripplett was merely an average DT on a bad defense.

[Mudflap1]

Do the numbers 37 and 6 mean anything to you???

Jon

[justasportsfan]

The team is returning 9 starters from the #4 rated defense. They added Joey Porter and Matt Roth will step in for Kevin Carter. Clearly they can be very very good on defense. The Bills are years away from matching the Fins defensively.
.

Never said our D was better. Just stating potential down the road and when Zach , Porter and JT leave, we're ahead.

On offense, the Bills only averaged 2.6 more points per game than a very bad Fins offense. IMO, Losman is still a question mark. Lynch is a question mark. I don't like any of your receivers other than Lee Evans. The OL should be better but will still be a middle of the pack OL at best.

The Fins need the OL to play better than last season. On paper they match up very well against the Bills offense:

Green > Losman
Brown > Lynch
Fins WRs > Bills WRs
Fins OL < Bills OL
Fins TE > Bills TE.

and our O wasn't at full force either. JP was held back by the OC .

Sorry, Green WAS better but not last year. Jp is on his way up, Green is on his way down.

Brown is more proven than Lynch but I do like Lynch POTENTIAL better.

We shall see about who's wr's are better. Evans is better than anything you've got.


Who's your TE? Martin? the guy is more injury prone than Rob Johnson and when he's healthy he wasn't all that with Frave throwing to him. I also read that he's not cutting it at camp.

IMO, the two biggest problems last season on offense were the OC and the QB. Both are different and there for have a chance to be better. Despite my rankings by position, I give the edge to the Bills on offense because there has been more stability from last season, but lets not forget that the Bills were not that good last year.

Both are different and both are questionable still. Ours is not that much better but we've seen that our team has gotten better with time while yours hasn't shown anything under the new coaches.

I will never count the fins out. The jets were supposed to suck last year and didn't. Can't see why the fins can't get better.


But when all is said and done, you're gonna wish you have Wanny back.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Do the numbers 37 and 6 mean anything to you???

Jon

They mean nothing this season.

Perhaps they should just not play the upcoming season. Just use the scores from last season. Guess what? The Bills finished 7-9. Jesus Christ from the way you spout off, you'd think the Bills finished 16-0 last season.

HERE IS A NEWS FLASH FOR YOU - We are debating whether TWO BAD teams did enough to get better this season. To claim that a 7-9 team is clearly better than a 6-10 team is ******ed.

Before you through the 37 and 6 numbers around again, consider that the Fins beat the Bears and Pats soundly last season. Does that make them better than the Bears and Pats? By your logic, you'd have to agree with that. Care to ellaborate?

[justasportsfan]

They mean nothing this season.

Perhaps they should just not play the upcoming season. Just use the scores from last season. Guess what? The Bills finished 7-9. Jesus Christ from the way you spout off, you'd think the Bills finished 16-0 last season.

HERE IS A NEWS FLASH FOR YOU - We are debating whether TWO BAD teams did enough to get better this season. To claim that a 7-9 team is clearly better than a 6-10 team is ******ed.

Before you through the 37 and 6 numbers around again, consider that the Fins beat the Bears and Pats soundly last season. Does that make them better than the Bears and Pats? By your logic, you'd have to agree with that. Care to ellaborate?

we shall see what Cam can do without LT, Chargers' OL, Gates, etc.

Your D can keep you in games but I doubt your O will do anything significant. That's just my UNBIASED ( ) opinion.

[Mudflap1]

They mean nothing this season.

Perhaps they should just not play the upcoming season. Just use the scores from last season. Guess what? The Bills finished 7-9. Jesus Christ from the way you spout off, you'd think the Bills finished 16-0 last season.

Never said they were 16-0. In fact, Buffalo was mediocre at best. But Buffal was better than Miami this year, and, barring major injuries or disasters unforeseen, will be better this year.

Interesting you say that the scores didn't mean anything last season when you say this:

Their offensive line was better than the Bills OL last season. Fewer sacks, better YPC by the RBs. Glass houses, glass houses......

IMO, the Bills OL was worse than the Fins last season. You keep claiming that the Fins QB will have no protection, but the Bills GAVE UP MORE SACKS LAST SEASON. I provided a link to back up my opinion. You have just talked smack.

I love how the off-season moves by the Bill on the OL automatically make them better but the moves by the Fins make them worse. Do I need to remind you about Tuten Reyes? You should be concerned about your GM's ability to judge OL talent.

Wasn't this discussion about the performance of the OLs? I posted a link from an unbiased site that ranked the Fins OL ahead of the Bills last season. What have you done beside spout jibberish?

Vernon Carey also received plenty of national recognition last season.

Fin fans are underestimating the impact of Langston Walker? Good luck with that.

The fact is that (despite a bad start) the Fins OL out performed the Bills OL last season. The numbers prove it. Outside sources back it up. BTW, Jason Peters played on that line. They gave up more sacks than the Fins despite attempting significantly fewer passes.

Fin fans don't underestimate the value of a good OL. Bills fans overestimate the impact of their yearly changes to the OL. Every year we hear that "this year we made changes that will give us a great OL". Every year. Last season if was Fowler and Reyes. Bills fans were convinced that the front office had solved the problem. Well ....... Before that it was Chris Villarrial. Before that it was Trey Teague and Mike Gandy. And on and on and on.

This year it is Dockery and Walker. Why not just let them play? The Bills OL is bad until it proves otherwise. That is all I'm saying.

You need to read up more on the Fins before you make statements. The Fins are likely to have 2 or 3 new starters on the line and all 5 players in new positions. How is that not giving the OL attention? They main difference is that Miami has been trying to rebuild the line via the draft. Depending on whether Alabi or Shelton starts at RT, the Fins OL may consist entirely of players drafted by the Fins (Carey, Mormino, Satele, Hadnot, Alabi).

Then to top it off, you then state this:

Fins OL < Bills OL

Interesting. Why don't you just go away until the Fish play the Bills? Your argument is nonsensical and no one on here agrees with you. How old are you? You act like you are 10 years old...

Jon

[justasportsfan]

Interesting you say that the scores didn't mean anything last season when you say this:



Then to top it off, you then state this:



Interesting. Why don't you just go away until the Fish play the Bills? Your argument is weak and no one on here agrees with you. How old are you? You act like you are 10 years old...

Jon

relax Jon. Whether you're a finfan ,browns ,Pitts , if you live in buffalo you're passionate about your team.

[justasportsfan]

Interesting you say that the scores didn't mean anything last season when you say this:



Then to top it off, you then state this:



Interesting. Why don't you just go away until the Fish play the Bills? Your argument is weak and no one on here agrees with you. How old are you? You act like you are 10 years old...

Jon

relax Jon. Whether you're a bills, finfan ,browns ,Pitts , if you live in buffalo you're passionate about your team. Take LT for instance. He's still a closet bills fan.

[PECKERWOOD]

Edwards? Perhaps you're expected Trent Edwards to start for the Bills and get his bell rung?

For the record, the Fins are building their OL via the draft. Their current starters are:

Carey - Mormino - Satele - Hadnot - Alabi

3 of them were not on the starting OL last year. By my count, thats MORE changes than the Bills made. Perhaps you should get some facts before typing. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they won't be any good.




We were talking about the FO addressing the OL. They added Fowler and Reyes last season. Fowler is the starting center. Reyes finished the season as third string. 1 out of 2 free agent moves on the OL last season worked. That's 50%.

Anthony Thomas had 378 yards rushing last season. Hardly anything to crow about. Tripplett was merely an average DT on a bad defense.

]Edwards? Perhaps you're expected Trent Edwards to start for the Bills and get his bell rung?

Actually, that was just a typo and I fixed it, thanks.

For the record, the Fins are building their OL via the draft. Their current starters are:

Carey - Mormino - Satele - Hadnot - Alabi

3 of them were not on the starting OL last year. By my count, thats MORE changes than the Bills made. Perhaps you should get some facts before typing. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they won't be any good

Yes, you're starting OL sucks. And just because there are more changes, doesn't mean that it will make your line better, it depends on what kinda change. The difference is, the Bills added an emerging LG and a mammoth at RT, both of these players are veterans and young ones with unlimited potential at that.

Let's compare:

Carey - Mormino - Satele - Hadnot - Alabi

Peters - Dockery - Fowler - Preston - Walker

Let's see, compare a young upcoming LT in Jason Peters who is arguably the best LT in the AFC East to Vernon Carey a serviceable veteran at best.

Then we got a powerful road grader in Derrick Dockery who opened up holes for Portis and when he went down they still managed to pop out crazy runs with their backup running back to a freaking center who has to fill in at LG in Drew Mormino because your team has no talent on the OL! Let me also include that Mormino is a rookie and to say that he would be anywhere near Dockerys talent level now is completely ridiculous.

Veteran center Melvin Fowler who stepped up last year and did a great job working with Losman and getting his career on the right track to an unproven rookie center in Samson Satele. Once again, to claim Satele is going to be anything even close to what Fowler is, is completely ludicrous seeing as how he hasn't played a snap in the NFL.

Comparing Hadnot to Preston, this is the only area in Miami's OL that they may have an advantage. Hadnot has more game time experience but it isn't as bad as it seems because Preston has had a couple of seasons to work with McNally already.

Compare starting veteran RT Langston Walker who is a mammoth 6'8 360 lbs who can move his feet like a LB to backup OT Anthony Alabi who only is starting at RT because your usual starter in LJ Shelton is a fat ass who can't take care of his body in the offseason.

Our OL rapes yours.


Also, just because Reyes didn't stay long-term doesn't mean that he wasn't a valuable addition last year, there just weren't many other players that were better and available, other than Hutch anyways and to be frank, I could care less about him now that we got Dockery anyways. Plus, A-Train filled in admirably posting a couple 100 yard rushing games when called in as a backup. How many other backup RB's in the league that can rush for 100 yards a game on any given day can you name? Also, for the price that A-Train was signed at ( a little over veteran minimum.. ) I would consider him a huge addittion to our staggering running game last year.

Class is out.

[Mudflap1]

relax Jon. Whether you're a finfan ,browns ,Pitts , if you live in buffalo you're passionate about your team.

No, the guy is a non-Bills fans who is trying to be antagonistic and insult Bills fans by saying their statements (which are misquotes to boot) are "******ed." Frankly, that's offensive. He needs to know he can go pound sand with his lame arguments...

Jon

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Never said our D was better. Just stating potential down the road and when Zach , Porter and JT leave, we're ahead.

That day is surely coming.

and our O wasn't at full force either. JP was held back by the OC .

I've got two words for you - Mike Mularkey.

Sorry, Green WAS better but not last year. Jp is on his way up, Green is on his way down.

I'm not sold on Losman. I like Beck's potential more that JP's.

Brown is more proven than Lynch but I do like Lynch POTENTIAL better.

That's debatable, but at this point, Brown had put up a very respectable 4.3 YPC behind a suspect OL.

We shall see about who's wr's are better. Evans is better than anything you've got.

Evans is the best between the two teams, but I don't think any of the other WRs on the Bills make the Fins roster.

Who's your TE? Martin? the guy is more injury prone than Rob Johnson and when he's healthy he wasn't all that with Frave throwing to him. I also read that he's not cutting it at camp.

You need to check your sources. I hear Martin is doing fine.

Both are different and both are questionable still. Ours is not that much better but we've seen that our team has gotten better with time while yours hasn't shown anything under the new coaches.

I will never count the fins out. The jets were supposed to suck last year and didn't. Can't see why the fins can't get better.

Agreed.

But when all is said and done, you're gonna wish you have Wanny back. [/quote]

I'll take the record he put up in his first year....

[justasportsfan]

No, the guy is a non-Bills fans who is trying to be antagonistic and insult Bills fans by saying their statements (which are misquotes to boot) are "******ed." Frankly, that's offensive. He needs to know he can go pound sand with his lame arguments...

Jon

I didn't say he was well informed, just passionate.

[Static]

relax Jon. Whether you're a bills, finfan ,browns ,Pitts , if you live in buffalo you're passionate about your team. Take LT for instance. He's still a closet bills fan.

To which LT are you refering?