NE running up the score

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Belicheat running up the score?

I say put the foot on the other teams' throats. If you can't stop them then it's your fault IMO. One last bit--if our teams were doing it, I'd doubt that we'd be issuing the same complaints about our team running up the score. Believe me, I was sore after the Pats did it to my team, but afterwards I was feeling the above mentioned things after I thought about it.

I don't know if your old enough, but I remember as a wee lad watching the Dolphins stomp the Pats back in the day. I looked it up, and the 1972 Miami Dolphins (who finished as undefeated World Champs) stomped a sad excuse for a New England team (who would go on to finish with 3 wins) by the tidy score of 52-0 in a November game. They threw 2 4th quarter TD passes when the score was 38-0 and 45-0.

I wonder if Don Shula faced the same kind of criticism the Patriots are now getting.

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: NE running up the score

First of all, Rodney is not a dirty player. He is physical and takes his shots, but so didn't Dick Butkus and Ronnie Lott. Intense players piss off the opposition because they take every shot they can. The fact people think he is dirty says more at how the game has gone soft than it does anything about Rodney.

Secondly, spare me your mercy rule.

Rodney has been fined numerous times. Butkus was also a dirty player. Different times, they allowed a bunch of crap though, but he was dirty. What's the matter, can't admit to having a dirty player on YOUR team?

Again, the tears flowing out of Massachusetts will cause the Atlantic to rise a foot if Brady gets hurt late in a blowout.

[mybills]

Re: NE running up the score

I don't think the score matters. But Skooby touched on something when he mentioned leaving Brady in the game so long. Why would you do that? There was no possible way for them to come back and win, so why not put your back up in for as much practice as possible, and protect your starter just in case something happened for him to get injured?

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: Belicheat running up the score?

I don't know if your old enough, but I remember as a wee lad watching the Dolphins stomp the Pats back in the day. I looked it up, and the 1972 Miami Dolphins (who finished as undefeated World Champs) stomped a sad excuse for a New England team (who would go on to finish with 3 wins) by the tidy score of 52-0 in a November game. They threw 2 4th quarter TD passes when the score was 38-0 and 45-0.

I wonder if Don Shula faced the same kind of criticism the Patriots are now getting.

Both passes were at least by the backup QB. You only had one TD at the end by the backup.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: NE running up the score

Rodney has been fined numerous times. Butkus was also a dirty player. Different times, they allowed a bunch of crap though, but he was dirty. What's the matter, can't admit to having a dirty player on YOUR team?

Again, the tears flowing out of Massachusetts will cause the Atlantic to rise a foot if Brady gets hurt late in a blowout.

If he gets hurt he gets hurt. It is part of the game and you can't control it, so why worry about it?

As for Rodney, you couldn't be further from the truth. He plays the game the way it was meant to be played, with great emotional intensity, and he doesn't apologize for it. Unfortunately, the game keeps getting more pussified every year, and people get all up an arms.

Most of the dirty players in the NFL are OL. I can't think of too many dirty guys in the Bucko Kilroy mold. It is a pretty tame league these days. Each player is basically a corporate entity, and they are just doing business.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Belicheat running up the score?

Both passes were at least by the backup QB. You only had one TD at the end by the backup.

I never said I had a problem with it. I merely pointed out that they were throwing the ball in the 4th quarter of a game that they had completely in hand against a far inferior opponent.

There is no difference. People making a big deal out of this are just drama queens. They should watch a soap opera or listen to sports radio, but don't bring all that overly-dramatic crap into the game.

[madness]

Re: NE running up the score

Interesting stuff on ESPN Page 2...



In other football news, man, the Patriots play well -- and, man, are they bad sports. With 13 minutes remaining, New England led Washington 38-0 -- 13 points more than the margin of the greatest fourth-quarter comeback in NFL history -- yet Tom Brady was still on the field, still in the shotgun and still throwing deep. When it was 52-0, most New England defensive starters were still on the field, desperately trying to prevent a Redskins consolation touchdown. In a nationally televised game, Bill Belichick went out of his way to display bad sportsmanship; it was especially coarse that Belichick sought to humiliate Hall of Fame coach Joe Gibbs, a mild-mannered, dignified man who always treats others respectfully. See more on the Patriots' good play plus bad sportsmanship below. For now, it's enough to say that other teams could have run up the score Sunday but instead showed dignity. When Indianapolis took a 31-7 lead at the beginning of the fourth quarter at Carolina, Peyton Manning and most of the Colts' starters sat down. Tony Dungy made no attempt to run up the score. When New Orleans went ahead 31-3 early in the fourth quarter against San Francisco, Drew Brees and most of the Saints' starters sat down.

Stat of the Week No. 9: Undefeated New England is allowing only one point per game less than second-place Buffalo but is scoring 29 points per game more.

Sweet Play of the Week No. 3: New England may have punched Washington in the nose, but on a deep post to Randy Moss, the pass was defensed by middle linebacker London Fletcher, who stayed with Moss deep stride for stride.

Sweet 'N' Sour Play: With the game scoreless, New England had second-and-goal at the Washington 2. Linebackers Mike Vrabel and Junior Seau reported eligible. To this moment, Vrabel has nine goal-line touchdown receptions in his career; he has scored a goal-line touchdown from a blocking package in a Super Bowl; and twice already this year, TMQ has run items cautioning that linebackers and extra blockers are the targets for New England plays at the goal line. Nevertheless, Vrabel goes in motion from left to right, simulating a "slide" blocker. He fakes a block on the right, then runs into the right flat of the end zone, 10th career reception for 10 touchdowns. That was sweet. No one from Washington covered Vrabel; that was sour. A player has nine career touchdown catches at the goal line and no one at all covers him at the goal line. That was sour.

Indianapolis Wins Quietly: New England ran up the score, and on Monday was lavishly praised by sports pundits; Indianapolis pulled its starters early in the fourth quarter, and on Monday, sports pundits were complaining that the Colts' victory lacked style points. Please don't let BCS thinking come to the NFL! Judging teams by how much they win by -- rather than by records, quality of play and sportsmanship -- is the worst thing about college football and, 'til this year, has not been a factor at the professional level. As New England frantically ran up the score in the fourth quarter, Fox announcers Kenny Albert and Troy Aikman heaped praise on Bill Belichick for keeping Tom Brady on the field and throwing deep, a reaction that was puzzling, even given that many television announcers spend most of their time gushing. Wouldn't it be nice, with kids watching, if network announcers at least gave lip service to sportsmanship? Fun fact from Indianapolis at Carolina: With three minutes remaining in the first half, Peyton Manning had thrown for only 16 yards. Through the final three minutes of the half and the beginning of the fourth quarter, he threw for 239 yards.

Scouts Notes: Both the Patriots and the Colts make good use of the center flare to the tailback Sunday -- Indianapolis throwing it for a touchdown, the Patriots for an important first-half first down. Both clubs can use this action because their offensive lines are so good. Kevin Faulk or Joseph Addai looks around, sees no lineman who needs help, then circles directly in front of Tom Brady or Peyton Manning for an easy medium-range gain. When Indianapolis and New England meet Sunday, each will be facing another team that features the tailback center flare and a defense that sees the play in practice. Another scouts' point: Belichick game plans, going back to the Giants' Super Bowl wins when he was defensive coordinator, often involve jamming receivers at the line and hitting them on crossing routes, designed to disrupt the timing of passing offenses. Will he try this against the Colts'? And why does no one throw this tactic back at Belichick by jamming his receivers? On Sunday, Redskins' cornerbacks were soft, soft, soft.


This Week's Anti-Belichick Item: First, praise where due: No one draws up a better game plan than Belichick. This season, he usually has started with the shotgun spread and lots of quick slants. Belichick correctly guessed Washington would spend the week practicing to defend the shotgun spread and quick slants, so the New England coach opened with Tom Brady under center and the Patriots running up the middle. Sure enough, the Redskins were in a defense tailored to stop slant passing, with their linebackers backed off nearly 10 yards. After several consecutive runs worked, Washington brought its linebackers up, and Brady immediately started throwing slants. Belichick varies his game plan more from week to week than any other NFL coach, and the variations are almost always intelligent and sophisticated. If you wanted to win a game and had to choose a coach, all other things being equal, you'd be nuts not to choose Belichick.


But all other things aren't equal. Last week's TMQ called the Colts the good team and the Patriots the bad team in a "Good vs. Evil" setup for next week's clash. After the column posted, I felt badly that I had not made clear I was being satirical -- that was my failing as a writer -- because, after all, none of us has the slightest idea what is in the hearts of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. There was Internet chatter calling me biased, ignorant, lower than pond scum; although in 2004 when I wrote a column for NFL.com saying Belichick was not only the best coach of the moment but perhaps the best coach ever, I don't recall anyone calling me biased or uninformed. Anyway, I apologize to Brady for complaining that he smirks -- saying this is an insult, and although it's fine to criticize public figures, insults are childish. (Remember, my argument is not with the New England players, it is with bad sportsmanship and cheating.) I even toyed with apologizing to Belichick, since comparing him to Beelzebub was a tad overloaded. But then I watched Sunday's game and thought, Belichick is exactly what I said!


With 13 minutes remaining, the Patriots led 38-0, yet Brady not only was still on the field but was in the shotgun and still throwing deep. With 12 minutes to play, New England jumped offsides on third-and-2; Brady visibly yelled "****!" in angry disgust. With his team ahead 38-0! At 11 minutes remaining, Belichick went for it on fourth-and-1, frantically trying to humiliate genteel Joe Gibbs by running up the score. When Brady threw to Wes Welker for yet another touchdown, he celebrated wildly afterward. OK, it's unfair to say Brady smirks. But a true sportsman, or anyone with dignity, would have felt embarrassed about celebrating wildly at 45-0 in the fourth quarter. Matt Cassel came in at quarterback, and immediately began throwing from the shotgun. Belichick went for it on fourth-and-2 with a 45-point lead, and soon the Patriots were celebrating wildly when Cassel ran for a TD himself.


Now it's 52-0 late in the fourth quarter, but Belichick wasn't satisfied. Most defensive starters remained in the game. With four minutes to go, Mike Vrabel was still on the field and Patriots coaches were still calling blitzes. With three minutes to go, Rosevelt Colvin was still on the field and Patriots coaches were still calling blitzes. With 30 seconds remaining, Asante Samuel and many other starters were still on the field, frantically trying to prevent Washington from recording a second consolation touchdown.

You certainly can ask why the Redskins, especially tastefully named Gregg Williams, took their humiliation at New England so passively. If it were 38-0 in the fourth quarter and the other side still had its starting quarterback on the field throwing deep, I would have called a double safety blitz and slammed Brady to the ground; Belichick immediately would have taken the starters out, and the mockery of sportsmanship would have ended. After the game, Colvin and other Patriots players said that in the pros, you should play full-tilt no matter how lopsided the score. If that's true, no one from New England could have complained if Williams had called an all-out blitz to hammer Brady. Why Williams kept calling vanilla defenses in the fourth quarter, passively submitting to being mocked, is something only he knows. But the fact that Washington took its humiliation lying down is no excuse for New England's classless victory. The bad sportsmanship doesn't even make coaching sense -- what if Brady or some other valuable player gets injured during a meaningless fourth quarter running-up-the-score exercise?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071030

[dolphan117]

Re: NE running up the score

I'm not one to ***** about teams running up the score but this is getting ridiculous, and dangerous IMO. If they keep doing this its only a matter of time until they really piss someone off and some player looses his temper and decided to start taking cheap shots. Probably at Brady.

Not rooting for it, just pointing it out. And trust me, when a team looses all respect for another team/player there are definitely ways to wear that guy out..... The other week when the Texans player stood over Green and gloated after he got the concussion our offensive line made it a point to abuse him the rest of the game. Not saying they played him dirty necessarily but at one point he had to leave the game with a limp. Satele and Rex had it out for him the rest of that game.

[dolphan117]

Re: NE running up the score

I mean I understand wanting to instill an aggressive personality in your offense that whenever they are on the field their job is to put up 7, I agree with it wholeheartedly actually.... So if you don't want your first team out there just trying to run out the clock by running none aggressive plays for fear of it dulling their edge I can understand that.

But there is a pretty easy solution to that problem. Just pull the first team guys and play backups. You can still coach the hell out of them and be as aggressive as you want and it gives them valuable experience while not running up the score as badly. And even if they do score a lot at least your starters weren't out there doing.

Plus like I said your putting your key guys at injury risk by leaving them out there once the game is all but over. I mean how dumb are the pats going to look if Brady or Moss go down on a cheap shot taken late in the 4th when the Pats were up by 35?

[Ickybaluky]

Re: NE running up the score

I'm not one to ***** about teams running up the score but this is getting ridiculous, and dangerous IMO. If they keep doing this its only a matter of time until they really piss someone off and some player looses his temper and decided to start taking cheap shots. Probably at Brady.

Again, I understand people are going to have some righteous indignation because the Pats beat someone by more than you think is the proper amount. I even understand you feel the need for some sort of payback, that somehow justice will be served by someone taking a cheap shot at Brady late in a blowout, and "they'll get theirs".

However, reality says otherwise. When was the last time you remember a team taking out the opposing team's QB late in a blowout? It never happens. Name one time.

In today's NFL, the players are professionals that make a lot of money. They are individual corporations that are maximizing their opportunities. That isn't to say they don't have passion for the game, or care. They do. However, they aren't as emotional about it as fans are, it is a job.

All this talk about "they better watch out or someone is going to take out Brady" is silly. It'll never happen.

Brady may get hurt, but it won't be because someone is paying him back for anything. It will be because NFL football is a voilent game and guys get hurt.

[mybills]

Re: NE running up the score

I'm not one to ***** about teams running up the score but this is getting ridiculous, and dangerous IMO. If they keep doing this its only a matter of time until they really piss someone off and some player looses his temper and decided to start taking cheap shots. Probably at Brady.

Forget the players. I get a strange feeling that a fan of an opposing team could take out any number of them away from the field. I'd bet on BB being the prime target though. He's the one who cheats on everything, including his wife. I don't think someone would hurt TB, since he's got babies now. That might be the only reason Bruschi has survived this long.

I actually predicted something like this earlier this year. Glad it hasn't come true...










yet.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: NE running up the score

This reminds me of the controversy years ago when Buddy Ryan ran up the score against the Cowboys.

Earlier in the year the two teams played and Ryan got mad because he felt Dallas had piled on in a 40-22 win. When they met the next time, Philly was winning 30-20 in the last minute with the ball. Instead of running out the clock, Philly ran play-action and threw a bomb to WR Mike Quick. Dallas was called for interference on the play, and Keith Byars scored on a 1-Yard run on the final play of the game.

Tom Landry wasn't real happy about it, and Dallas fans were up-in-arms. Ryan was unapologetic, feeling he was paying Dallas back for an earlier injustice.

Ironically, Philly's DC in that game was current Cowboy's head coach Wade Phillips.

Ryan was a character, no stranger to controversy.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Re: Belicheat running up the score?

I say put the foot on the other teams' throats. If you can't stop them then it's your fault IMO. One last bit--if our teams were doing it, I'd doubt that we'd be issuing the same complaints about our team running up the score. Believe me, I was sore after the Pats did it to my team, but afterwards I was feeling the above mentioned things after I thought about it.

I agree, but every Pats fan in the world will be crying and calling for Bellichick's head if Brady gets hurt throwing a pass when up by 40 points in the 4th quarter. There is a fine line between the two.

[TigerJ]

Re: NE running up the score

With the Patriots, it's not so much what they did on 4th and 2 deep in the other teams territory. It's about what they are doing in general late in games. Generally when teams get a comfortable lead, they move to more of a running game to run clock. New England is continuing to run an agressive offensive strategy. That is usually regarded as poor sportsmanship, disrespecting both the other teams hopes of scoring and ability to stop NE from scoring. In this case it's about saying to the league, "Screw you!" I have no doubt that Belichick is using that same message in team talks.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: NE running up the score

"Screw you!" I have no doubt that Belichick is using that same message in team talks.

I would think his team would get mad if Belichick said that to them.