Ralph is not cheap...

[HAMMER]

While Moron(s) are calling Ralph cheap, let's look at the big picture....LIFE. Ralph Wilson was one of, if not the largest contributor to the Miami Project. The research done through this project may very well have saved a life, at the very least it has saved a man from being paralyzed. So rather than belittle the man that brought football to Buffalo, was a founding father of the AFL, and is a very generous benefactor, let's have a thread that praises him. I would imagine Kevin Everett and his family would appreciate it very much. God bless you Ralph and your selfless contribution to medical research and for bringing football to Buffalo. We love you and thank you.

[Turf]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Whne it comes to football, Ralph is cheap enough to rob himself. Life is another story.

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

While Moron(s) are calling Ralph cheap, let's look at the big picture....LIFE. Ralph Wilson was one of, if not the largest contributor to the Miami Project. The research done through this project may very well have saved a life, at the very least it has saved a man from being paralyzed. So rather than belittle the man that brought football to Buffalo, was a founding father of the AFL, and is a very generous benefactor, let's have a thread that praises him. I would imagine Kevin Everett and his family would appreciate it very much. God bless you Ralph and your selfless contribution to medical research and for bringing football to Buffalo. We love you and thank you.

Nice idea, won't fly. Too many cynics and pessimists around here. I agree with you though.

[Historian]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

When you let your accountant make personnel decisions, you pretty much tip your hand as to what your priorities are.

[don137]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Ralph picks and chooses where he puts his money. Anyone that implements a cash to cap and spends millions less than his counterparts that makes it very difficult to succeed in this league is cheap by NFL standards.

[Philagape]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Obviously, any reference calling him cheap in these forums refers to his football budget, so anything he does outside of the Bills is irrelevant.

The only question that defines cheapness is, Does he spend as much as he could under NFL rules? The answer is no. Cheapness is defined not by how much one spends, but by how much one holds back.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Whne it comes to football, Ralph is cheap enough to rob himself. Life is another story.

No, actually he is not.

[patmoran2006]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

No, actually he is not.

yes he is.

I'm not trying to battle with you about this or anything. But you only see what you want to see, because you're a fan. But take a look at some facts.

* Did he spend big money on Dockery and Walker last year via FA? yes, he did. But you REFUSE to acknowledge the money he saved by not resigning 2 of our best 3 defensive players as money he DID NOT have to spend. He also traded McGahee and a contract for a draft pick. Now before responding, YES IT DID work out. Lynch is a goldmine. Thank the lord we drafted him. Where would this team be with Fred Jackson or A-Train as our primary back? I credit 100% whatever person decided to draft Lynch, not f'n Ralph Wilson. You say what he spent "last" year was among the league's highest. It is, because the Bills count the ENTIRE signing bonus upfront, that is why.. "Cash to Cap" Lecter. That should be enough.

*You tempt me to dig enough to find out the actual numbers. I will bet you ANYTHING you want that Dick Jauron is one of the three lowest paid head coaches in the NFL. I'll bet you Fewel and Fairchild were the same among coordinators. I'll bet you Levy was one of the lowest paid GMs in football. I''ll bet you Mularkey and Williams before him and Wade Phillips before him were among the three lowest paid coaches in the NFL too. As I said before with coaches and GMs, every now and then at the bargain basement you find a gem (Levy and Polian). FAR more often than not though, you get what you pay for. This above anything else (coach and GM) is the single #1 reason WHY the Bills have had this embarassing playoff drought.

* I think there has been one period in maybe the last 20 years where Wilson decided to spend quality money. He DID spend big on free agents in the early 2000-period with guys like Spikes, Adams, Milloy, Fletcher and Vincent (and Bledsoe of course). During that span we also had the #2 defense in the NFL 2 out of 3 years. This era I dont put on Wilson, I put on Donahoe. He neglected the OL and made the worst head coach decision in history with Mularkey. THere are 25 coaches in the NFL who could've gotten Buffalo to the playoffs with that talent.

Outside of that, he's taken every high road imaginable.

Let me ask you this Lecter. We go into this offseason with back-to-back 7-9 seasons. That's normal for us. However, this is NOT normal.

* We dont have any Fletch's or Clements' to worry about this year.. ****, our "primary" free agent is Anthony Hargrove, who's easily replacable.

* We have the third most cap room in the league.

Do you think that this SHOULD NOT be a year that Wilson goes out and spends big in the open market? I'm looking for a trademark Wilson excuse and I've yet to find one. This is a team that's got some talent but is TOO YOUNG. I don't think there's a person on this board who doesnt understand the Bills need at least 3 good players via Free agency, along with another solid draft.

Am I saying Wilson needs to go out and try to sign Dallas Clark, Lance Briggs and Asante Samuel? Of course I'm not, I'm realistic. But if we have another repeat of 2006 when we go out and get a FA crop the likes of Robert Royal, Peerless Price, Melvin Fowler, Matt Bowen and Larry Tripplett, THEN will you be convinced he really doesn't give a ****?

Do you also think it's right that ultimately we're going to end up promoting within for both OC and GM? GOOD teams promote within. BAd teams and make no mistake about we're a bad team, go outside and find the man best qualified for the job. If Turk is the most qualified OC out there and Guy is the most qualified GM out there then fine; but do you think for a SECOND that is the case? If you do, you're lying to yourself.

We badly need a better WR, TE, DT and OLB. If Wilson wants to take a run this year, he will find quality players in at least 2 of those positions. There's not a significant person we're going to lose via FA. He's out of damn excuses in 2008 I dont care what you or anyone says.

if you want to take my disdain for Wilson as not being a Bills fan then be my guest. But until he shows a committment to putting the best team out there humanly possible, he's the biggest reason why we've sucked in my book.

and Hammer, my comments are concerning football, not his humanitarian efforts. I never said he was a bad person, or he didn't care about good causes. He just doesn't commit to building a championship team here.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

yes he is.

I'm not trying to battle with you about this or anything. But you only see what you want to see, because you're a fan. But take a look at some facts.

· Did he spend big money on Dockery and Walker last year via FA? yes, he did. But you REFUSE to acknowledge the money he saved by not resigning 2 of our best 3 defensive players as money he DID NOT have to spend. He also traded McGahee and a contract for a draft pick. Now before responding, YES IT DID work out. Lynch is a goldmine. Thank the lord we drafted him. Where would this team be with Fred Jackson or A-Train as our primary back? I credit 100% whatever person decided to draft Lynch, not f'n Ralph Wilson. You say what he spent "last" year was among the league's highest. It is, because the Bills count the ENTIRE signing bonus upfront, that is why.. "Cash to Cap" Lecter. That should be enough.

Hey, we can battle. I have facts and data in my corner.

First off, trading Willis was not financial. You know that and I know that. He was a douchebag who wanted out and had a questionable attitude in Marv’s “character” plan. And, for you to say the bad things are Ralph’s fault, but the good things have nothing to do with him is an issue and illogical.

And he could have re-signed London and Nate. Of course, there are very few NFL teams that re-sign every single UFA and those two got WAY overpaid. And Fletcher, despite his season this year is not a young man. For as much as you ***** about them “wasting” money on Kelsay, signing those two would have been even worse, especially Clements. Having Poz on this team is better for the future and a better investment than Fletcher.

As for “Cash to Cap”, it has been explained time and time again. Not using the credit card approach and using the available money every year is not necessarily bad.

*You tempt me to dig enough to find out the actual numbers. I will bet you ANYTHING you want that Dick Jauron is one of the three lowest paid head coaches in the NFL. I'll bet you Fewel and Fairchild were the same among coordinators. I'll bet you Levy was one of the lowest paid GMs in football. I''ll bet you Mularkey and Williams before him and Wade Phillips before him were among the three lowest paid coaches in the NFL too. As I said before with coaches and GMs, every now and then at the bargain basement you find a gem (Levy and Polian). FAR more often than not though, you get what you pay for. This above anything else (coach and GM) is the single #1 reason WHY the Bills have had this embarassing playoff drought.

Go ahead. Jauron is in the middle. But do your research, you will be wrong. AGAIN.

As for the GM’s, you do remember that just two hires ago the Bills signed the biggest name and most expensive guy out there, don’t you? And he was here for 5 years of the above reference drought. So, you are wrong on “cheapness” being the reason, since Ralph was, in fact, not cheap on the GM for most of this drought.

So tell me: when did money spent on a coach/GM equate to success? How much did NE pay Belicheck when they hired him? Or Pioli? Or when Pittsburgh hired the object of your desires, Cowher? Compare that to the money Washington has spent on Spurrier and Gibbs.

* I think there has been one period in maybe the last 20 years where Wilson decided to spend quality money. He DID spend big on free agents in the early 2000-period with guys like Spikes, Adams, Milloy, Fletcher and Vincent (and Bledsoe of course). During that span we also had the #2 defense in the NFL 2 out of 3 years. This era I dont put on Wilson, I put on Donahoe. He neglected the OL and made the worst head coach decision in history with Mularkey. THere are 25 coaches in the NFL who could've gotten Buffalo to the playoffs with that talent.

Outside of that, he's taken every high road imaginable.

Let me ask you this Lecter. We go into this offseason with back-to-back 7-9 seasons. That's normal for us. However, this is NOT normal.

The worst HC decision in history was Bullough, but I digress.

But you are dispriving your point right there with the examples of money Ralph spent. We can also count the 90’s, when the Bills were in cap hell due to money spent. Or when he made OJ the highest pair player in the NFL. Or the Kelly the highest paid player in NFL HISTORY. Or paid Chuck Knox. There are examples galore of Ralph spending money. Fans though, think once he does not sign one guy he is “cheap”. People are great at spending other’s money.

* We dont have any Fletch's or Clements' to worry about this year.. ****, our "primary" free agent is Anthony Hargrove, who's easily replacable.

* We have the third most cap room in the league.

Do you think that this SHOULD NOT be a year that Wilson goes out and spends big in the open market? I'm looking for a trademark Wilson excuse and I've yet to find one. This is a team that's got some talent but is TOO YOUNG. I don't think there's a person on this board who doesnt understand the Bills need at least 3 good players via Free agency, along with another solid draft.

Am I saying Wilson needs to go out and try to sign Dallas Clark, Lance Briggs and Asante Samuel? Of course I'm not, I'm realistic. But if we have another repeat of 2006 when we go out and get a FA crop the likes of Robert Royal, Peerless Price, Melvin Fowler, Matt Bowen and Larry Tripplett, THEN will you be convinced he really doesn't give a ****?

Do you also think it's right that ultimately we're going to end up promoting within for both OC and GM? GOOD teams promote within. BAd teams and make no mistake about we're a bad team, go outside and find the man best qualified for the job. If Turk is the most qualified OC out there and Guy is the most qualified GM out there then fine; but do you think for a SECOND that is the case? If you do, you're lying to yourself.

We badly need a better WR, TE, DT and OLB. If Wilson wants to take a run this year, he will find quality players in at least 2 of those positions. There's not a significant person we're going to lose via FA. He's out of damn excuses in 2008 I dont care what you or anyone says.

Good. I am proud of you. I really don’t care what you say either, although I generally try to pretend to be respectful.

Funny thing is you are ignoring last year when he went out and, on day 1, signed two key guys right away. So his history from last year indicates he will do what he can this year. He has already indicated that he will go after a WR. Teams are built through the draft and supplemented through FA.

As for promoting form within, I will wait to see what happens. Will Schonert open it up more? Will keeping the FO structure similar allow the team to continue with solid drafts? Again, hiring Martz and a high priced GM candidate is not a guarantee for success.

if you want to take my disdain for Wilson as not being a Bills fan then be my guest. But until he shows a committment to putting the best team out there humanly possible, he's the biggest reason why we've sucked in my book.

and Hammer, my comments are concerning football, not his humanitarian efforts. I never said he was a bad person, or he didn't care about good causes. He just doesn't commit to building a championship team here.

You have indicated that he is a bad person countless times and even used to wish for his death. He works on bringing a championship team here. He might make bad decisions and even have the gall to disagree with you sometimes. But, ultimately, if was only about money this team would be in LA or Seattle or some other area. That does not mean we should praise him for just being here. But it does show that he cares about more than money.

Finally, please remember his stance against the most recent CBA (Where he has proven right). Like it or not, the NFL has serious issues and teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville have to be more creative than Dallas and Washington due to financial realities.

[El Guapo]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Cash to cap is to make this team the best overall value at the time it is sold. The team will be in great shape for the new owner to immediately spend big money on FAs. Think about it, a business has increased value without debt.

[theanswer74]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

You need two to tango patmoran. If Im a 26-28 year old WR,TE, CB, or LB, why would I sign in Buffalo? Unless you pay me a lot more than another team will pay me, which wouldn't be smart, Im not even considering Buffalo as an option. Why would any of these guys think Buffalo is ready to win? Most of these guys will have another free agency also. Do they see Buffalo as a place they can flourish?

There are a lot of factors that are hurting the Bills.

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Hey, we can battle. I have facts and data in my corner.

First off, trading Willis was not financial. You know that and I know that. He was a douchebag who wanted out and had a questionable attitude in Marv’s “character” plan. And, for you to say the bad things are Ralph’s fault, but the good things have nothing to do with him is an issue and illogical.

And he could have re-signed London and Nate. Of course, there are very few NFL teams that re-sign every single UFA and those two got WAY overpaid. And Fletcher, despite his season this year is not a young man. For as much as you ***** about them “wasting” money on Kelsay, signing those two would have been even worse, especially Clements. Having Poz on this team is better for the future and a better investment than Fletcher.

As for “Cash to Cap”, it has been explained time and time again. Not using the credit card approach and using the available money every year is not necessarily bad.



Go ahead. Jauron is in the middle. But do your research, you will be wrong. AGAIN.

As for the GM’s, you do remember that just two hires ago the Bills signed the biggest name and most expensive guy out there, don’t you? And he was here for 5 years of the above reference drought. So, you are wrong on “cheapness” being the reason, since Ralph was, in fact, not cheap on the GM for most of this drought.

So tell me: when did money spent on a coach/GM equate to success? How much did NE pay Belicheck when they hired him? Or Pioli? Or when Pittsburgh hired the object of your desires, Cowher? Compare that to the money Washington has spent on Spurrier and Gibbs.



The worst HC decision in history was Bullough, but I digress.

But you are dispriving your point right there with the examples of money Ralph spent. We can also count the 90’s, when the Bills were in cap hell due to money spent. Or when he made OJ the highest pair player in the NFL. Or the Kelly the highest paid player in NFL HISTORY. Or paid Chuck Knox. There are examples galore of Ralph spending money. Fans though, think once he does not sign one guy he is “cheap”. People are great at spending other’s money.



Good. I am proud of you. I really don’t care what you say either, although I generally try to pretend to be respectful.

Funny thing is you are ignoring last year when he went out and, on day 1, signed two key guys right away. So his history from last year indicates he will do what he can this year. He has already indicated that he will go after a WR. Teams are built through the draft and supplemented through FA.

As for promoting form within, I will wait to see what happens. Will Schonert open it up more? Will keeping the FO structure similar allow the team to continue with solid drafts? Again, hiring Martz and a high priced GM candidate is not a guarantee for success.



You have indicated that he is a bad person countless times and even used to wish for his death. He works on bringing a championship team here. He might make bad decisions and even have the gall to disagree with you sometimes. But, ultimately, if was only about money this team would be in LA or Seattle or some other area. That does not mean we should praise him for just being here. But it does show that he cares about more than money.

Finally, please remember his stance against the most recent CBA (Where he has proven right). Like it or not, the NFL has serious issues and teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville have to be more creative than Dallas and Washington due to financial realities.

NICE!

[don137]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

Cash to cap is to make this team the best overall value at the time it is sold. The team will be in great shape for the new owner to immediately spend big money on FAs. Think about it, a business has increased value without debt.

If Ralph lives to over a100 are you saying the Bills are setting themselves up for 10+ years to sell the team?

[Historian]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

But, ultimately, if was only about money this team would be in LA or Seattle or some other area.

I pretty much agree with most of your post, until this.

Ralph knows where his bread is buttered.

Al Davis used to laugh at the notion of Ralph threatening to move the team out of Buffalo, especially when he "gets 75,000 in a snowstorm".

Given the proximity to Detroit, the tax incentives, the remodels and retrofits, I would say that Ralph knows he's got a gold mine here.

Finally, please remember his stance against the most recent CBA

Again, none of us really know his motivation there. Was his stand really for the desolate, downtrodden, small market fans....or because the Snyders and Joneses are cutting into his profits?

Tough call, IMO.

I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but then you look back on the history....

[don137]

Re: Ralph is not cheap...

You need two to tango patmoran. If Im a 26-28 year old WR,TE, CB, or LB, why would I sign in Buffalo? Unless you pay me a lot more than another team will pay me, which wouldn't be smart, Im not even considering Buffalo as an option. Why would any of these guys think Buffalo is ready to win? Most of these guys will have another free agency also. Do they see Buffalo as a place they can flourish?

There are a lot of factors that are hurting the Bills.

Why do you think top FA players in the league do not want to come to Buffalo unless they are overpaid? It's because they feel ownership is not committed to winning.
Most players want two things and they vary in degree. They want to be paid very well for their services and a team commited to winning.