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Thread: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

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    Registered User Buffatexas's Avatar
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    Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Sorry if this was already posted, Maybe Ralph is smarter than we give him credit for

    This isn’t small-market owner Ralph Wilson of the Bills or Mike Brown of the Bengals complaining. Bowlen is the chairman of the NFL’s labor committee....

    http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/261645.html

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    Mildly Optimistic Jan Reimers's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Ralph was simply man enough to stand up and tell everyone that the emperor was naked. When you start with labor costs that are 59% of revenues, and then add in all of your other costs, there isn't going to be much profit left.

    But of course Ralph was vilified for having the courage to state what was obvious to a lot of other owners, as well.
    Let's at least give Whaley a chance.

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    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Of course Ralph isn't stupid...Many posters supported Ralph's comments and also knew from the beginning that this CBA was crap. Some have been thumping on the cash issue, specifically the disparity in unshared revenues that are being created with every new stadium, every new luxury suite, and every new PSL.

    Owners like Jones and Kraft are going to be the downfall of the league unless the majority smarten up quickly and do something to keep these guys from running ramshod over the rest of the teams.

    The NFL was built, grown, and prospered on revenue sharing and only an idiot would try to upset the balance.

    Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be.

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    Registered User gr8slayer's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat
    Of course Ralph isn't stupid...Many posters supported Ralph's comments and also knew from the beginning that this CBA was crap. Some have been thumping on the cash issue, specifically the disparity in unshared revenues that are being created with every new stadium, every new luxury suite, and every new PSL.

    Owners like Jones and Kraft are going to be the downfall of the league unless the majority smarten up quickly and do something to keep these guys from running ramshod over the rest of the teams.

    The NFL was built, grown, and prospered on revenue sharing and only an idiot would try to upset the balance.
    Damn those owners who have done well for themselves.

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    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8slayer
    Damn those owners who have done well for themselves.
    That's the key right there...They are concentrating on doing well for themselves in an environment that was created to do well for everybody first, individual participants second. Selfish gratification has taken over for concern for the whole, which will destroy the league in the long run.

    'Don't bite the hand that feeds you.'

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    Registered User gr8slayer's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat
    That's the key right there...They are concentrating on doing well for themselves in an environment that was created to do well for everybody first, individual participants second. Selfish gratification has taken over for concern for the whole, which will destroy the league in the long run.

    'Don't bite the hand that feeds you.'
    That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

    It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.

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    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8slayer
    That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

    It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.
    It isn't just affecting the small market teams anymore, it's affecting the middle class also.

    Capitalism is fine, but the NFL wasn't created and didn't become what it is/was under that format and it won't be able to sustain itself if it continues down that road.

    It's a loophole in the system that needs to be addressed. Luxury suites, PSL's, etc, bottom line, are ticket sales and ticket sales are supposed to be shared revenue.

  8. #8
    All-Pro Zoner Confused's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    james lofton, back in buffalo? thatwould be awesome.

  9. #9
    Wys Guy
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Reimers
    Ralph was simply man enough to stand up and tell everyone that the emperor was naked. When you start with labor costs that are 59% of revenues, and then add in all of your other costs, there isn't going to be much profit left.

    But of course Ralph was vilified for having the courage to state what was obvious to a lot of other owners, as well.
    Perhaps. Another factor however in this mirrors the housing bubble. When they signed this new/temporary agreement, the assumption was that league revenues and therefore the salcap would continue to increase by the very large strides that it had made in the years prior to their signing this agreement. Had those revenues, ergo the salcap, continued to expand by the huge percentages that it had allowing it to double within a handful of years, then this wouldn't be an issue.

    As to Wilson, the issue isn't the cap. It's what the team does with the money that they do have. You just can't keep swinging and missing and then crying foul that you don't have anymore at bats/swings left. You get "three strikes" and then you're out. Good GM'ship isn't about keep trying and trying until finally due to pure chance you get it right.

  10. #10
    Wys Guy
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by hoofhearted
    james lofton, back in buffalo? thatwould be awesome.
    It would be awesome if he replaced Jauron. I promise you he'd be at least an average head coach early on!

  11. #11
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by Wys Guy
    Perhaps. Another factor however in this mirrors the housing bubble. When they signed this new/temporary agreement, the assumption was that league revenues and therefore the salcap would continue to increase by the very large strides that it had made in the years prior to their signing this agreement. Had those revenues, ergo the salcap, continued to expand by the huge percentages that it had allowing it to double within a handful of years, then this wouldn't be an issue.

    As to Wilson, the issue isn't the cap. It's what the team does with the money that they do have. You just can't keep swinging and missing and then crying foul that you don't have anymore at bats/swings left. You get "three strikes" and then you're out. Good GM'ship isn't about keep trying and trying until finally due to pure chance you get it right.
    I agree to a certain point, but the issue is cash, plain and simple. Because of the disparity in revenue, Buffalo gets three strikes but others (like Dallas) get six. Smaller market teams don't have the margin of error the richer teams do, so they have to be more judicious with their expenditures.

    Because of revenue restraints, teams like Buffalo are basically forced to invest their money in bonds while others are free to play in a bull market. More conservative investments = more conservative gains, whereas others have the ability to gamble, and hit, on futures.

  12. #12
    Give me a minute... Ebenezer's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8slayer
    That's capitalism, that's being a good businessman. It might not be right morally but that's the American way.

    It won't kill the league because eventually these small market teams won't make it and will have to be re-located to places where they can compete with Jones and Kraft.
    dude, why don't you just root for the cowboys....




    For all the education and practice each of us undergoes, the achievment of mastery is ultimately the outcome of a personal quest for understanding.

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    Registered User gr8slayer's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebenezer
    dude, why don't you just root for the cowboys....
    Because I'm a Bills fan?

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    Ole' Ralphie SCROOGE patmoran2006's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    My single BIGGEST problem with Wilson isn't his spending on players (though I admit I have a problem with that too). I mean he did spend a lot on the OL last yaer, he did sign off on overpaying the living hell out of Kelsay and Schobel.. I think he takes some shortcuts with other talent being released, traded or not resigned to recoup a lot of that money, but I do think for the "most part" he isn't scared to go out and sign some "big name" guys to help the team.

    My BIG problem with Wilson is with the horrid frugalness he displays when it comes to hirings with his personnel. He's still living off Polian/Levy era, where he struck gold and got away with the cheap hires. We're consistently at the bottom of the league in pay for GM's, head coaches, coordinators, scouts, etc and that's the biggest reason we've been a perennial loser.

    Promoting Brandon, Guy and Modrak is a complete and utter joke. These guys have only proven that they're consistent at fielding sub-par football teams. How does Guy, a person that has made some AWFUL NFL personnel decisions get a promotion? Modrak, who's prints have been on our draft since 2002, has more misses than hits. Brandon is an admitted Marketing guy, not a football mind-- yet they all get promoted?

    As for Jauron; please. Nice guy, good teacher, probably is better suited for the college ranks or maybe a D.C. in the NFL (at best). He's a bad, scared and gun-shy game-day coach, and it is far from coincidence he's had one winning season out of eight. Yet he is getting a SUBSTANTIAL increase in authority?

    The only decision I DO like is Turk at O.C. He's seen firsthand exactly HOW TO NOT run an offense; so I think he's a good hire.

    With a nice young core of talent, this was WIlson's chance to have Levy ride off into the sunset and bring in a real GM; a GM that can build a winner. And this whole "chemistry" and "direction" thing is a huge crock of ****. That applies to teams that win! What is our goal, to have a 10-win season once before all these young stars become FA's and we lose most of them, and start all over again?

    Our head coach is the same, and our O.C is from within and I"m fine with that. But for the love of God, bring in a GM who knows how to bring more TALENT and winning direction to this team.

    So player signings aside, when it comes to the front office and the staff, Wilson is and will always be a cheap **********- and that more than the players is why we always lose.

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    Registered User Gunzlingr's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8slayer
    Because I'm a Bills fan?
    Really? As much as you praise the Cowboys, you could have fooled me.
    Last edited by RockStar36; 01-27-2008 at 06:35 PM.
    You think you're hot **** in a champagne glass, but you're really cold diarrhea in a Dixie cup!

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    Registered User gr8slayer's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzlingr
    Really? As much as you praise the Cowboys, you could have fooled me.
    It's not that hard to fool you .
    Last edited by RockStar36; 01-27-2008 at 06:35 PM.

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    Moderator Michael82's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by patmoran2006
    My single BIGGEST problem with Wilson isn't his spending on players (though I admit I have a problem with that too). I mean he did spend a lot on the OL last yaer, he did sign off on overpaying the living hell out of Kelsay and Schobel.. I think he takes some shortcuts with other talent being released, traded or not resigned to recoup a lot of that money, but I do think for the "most part" he isn't scared to go out and sign some "big name" guys to help the team.

    My BIG problem with Wilson is with the horrid frugalness he displays when it comes to hirings with his personnel. He's still living off Polian/Levy era, where he struck gold and got away with the cheap hires. We're consistently at the bottom of the league in pay for GM's, head coaches, coordinators, scouts, etc and that's the biggest reason we've been a perennial loser.

    Promoting Brandon, Guy and Modrak is a complete and utter joke. These guys have only proven that they're consistent at fielding sub-par football teams. How does Guy, a person that has made some AWFUL NFL personnel decisions get a promotion? Modrak, who's prints have been on our draft since 2002, has more misses than hits. Brandon is an admitted Marketing guy, not a football mind-- yet they all get promoted?

    As for Jauron; please. Nice guy, good teacher, probably is better suited for the college ranks or maybe a D.C. in the NFL (at best). He's a bad, scared and gun-shy game-day coach, and it is far from coincidence he's had one winning season out of eight. Yet he is getting a SUBSTANTIAL increase in authority?

    The only decision I DO like is Turk at O.C. He's seen firsthand exactly HOW TO NOT run an offense; so I think he's a good hire.

    With a nice young core of talent, this was WIlson's chance to have Levy ride off into the sunset and bring in a real GM; a GM that can build a winner. And this whole "chemistry" and "direction" thing is a huge crock of ****. That applies to teams that win! What is our goal, to have a 10-win season once before all these young stars become FA's and we lose most of them, and start all over again?

    Our head coach is the same, and our O.C is from within and I"m fine with that. But for the love of God, bring in a GM who knows how to bring more TALENT and winning direction to this team.

    So player signings aside, when it comes to the front office and the staff, Wilson is and will always be a cheap **********- and that more than the players is why we always lose.


    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...d.php?t=143962






  18. #18
    Registered User jamze132's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8slayer
    Because I'm a Bills fan?
    You haven't been sounding like one. Especially with that Av...

    We all know the Bills suck and their are enough people on these boards making sure we all know how bad they suck. What are you going to do about the Bills sucking?

  19. #19
    Registered User gr8slayer's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by jamze132
    You haven't been sounding like one. Especially with that Av...

    We all know the Bills suck and their are enough people on these boards making sure we all know how bad they suck. What are you going to do about the Bills sucking?
    So I like Jerry Jones as an owner, sue me. He's an owner who is emotionally involved in his team and will do anything to win, that's more than I can say for Wilson. I could put 31 other owners in my avatar with the title "better than Ralph."

    I do my part every year, I spend hundreds on merchandise and spend at least a grand a year going to a game. I also drop a couple hundred a year on Sunday Ticket and Superfan to insure that I will be able to watch the Bills every week. If I lived remotely closer to New York I would be a season ticket holder and go to every single home game. But since I have to pay for tuition I won't be able to do that until I get out of school.

    You can question my being a fan all day long, none of you know me. Those who do know me know that I might be the biggest Bills fan in the land.

  20. #20
    Moderator Michael82's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like Ralph isn't the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8slayer
    Those who do know me know that I might be the biggest Bills fan in the land.
    Yes you are, but two others are right up there too.


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