The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

[ddaryl]

This is a great article and it pretty much says what most of us have been saying... the TAMPA 2 SUCKS. Bend don't break don't cut it

The article is written by former Bills S Matt Bowen

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/the-death-of-the-tampa-2/

more to the article so click the link

I think the Tampa 2 defense is being phased out of the NFL.
Think about it. More important, think about it as you watch the championship games on Sunday between bowls of Texas chili and cold bottles of Miller High Life. There will be no Tampa 2, no undersized linebackers dropping to a spot and no safeties playing close to 20 yards off the line of scrimmage. No rushing the passer with your front four on third downs and playing coverage behind it, and no middle linebacker running down the middle of the field trying to keep up with a slot receiver who runs a 4.3 in the 40.

Think about the teams who run the Tampa 2 scheme as their No. 1 call: Chicago, Minnesota, Buffalo, Tampa, Indianapolis and Detroit. Where are they now? At home, watching these four defenses go after quarterbacks, challenge receivers and create turnovers — instead of waiting for them to fall in their laps because of a bad decision by the quarterback.

the article does a good job of pointing out why the tampa 2 is no longer a bonafide D for NFL teams

[justasportsfan]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

What does Bowen know? Dick is smarter .

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

What does Bowen know? Dick is smarter .

im assuming you're sorta joking, but....

ya dick is smarter than most, but that doesnt make him a good coach.

[OpIv37]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

hmmm..... I could swear I said the same thing a long ass time ago and everyone jumped all over me for it.

It's a D that ALWAYS has holes in the zone, and relies on pressure from the front four. First, it's very difficult to get consistent pressure from the front four. Second, even with pressure the D is vulnerable to the quick slant. Third, the holes in the zone are almost always in the SAME spots, so it's easier to exploit.

Contrast this with the Ravens' or Eagles' D, which is always blitzing. Blitzing creates holes but the offense never knows where they will be, plus the blitz creates a more effective pass rush.

Screw the Tampa 2. I'm so sick of this D that plays back on it's heels and is undersized at every single position.

[ddaryl]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

You have my vote agianst the Tampa 2 OP... I've hated the bend don't break scheme for a long time. I remember being called out about it by others myself.

Tampa 2 almost requires you have 2 probowl caliber pass rushers on the DL. If you cannot generate consistent pressure by the front 4 the scheme is soft and gets exposed by quality teams

[justasportsfan]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

im assuming you're sorta joking, but....

ya dick is smarter than most, but that doesnt make him a good coach.

I was being sarcastic.

Dick is dumb when it comes to picking OC's. I could give his defensive decisions his entire career the benefit of the doubt , but his O is a failure.

[Ingtar33]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

the Tampa-2 worked in Tampa for a pretty simple reason.

Rice, Sapp, Brooks, Barber and Lynch

they could pressure up the middle and at the edge and run stop without blitzing. They had playmakers who were turnover machines.

This was a defense that was designed to stop a WCO, by forcing the WCO to go on 10 or 12 play drives. By design it's a bend but don't break defense. When done right it can feast on poor offenses, especially offenses that don't run well.

part of the reason I've begged the team to dump the 4-3 front since we got it, was because both gimmicky schemes we ran (46 and Tampa2) were based off a strategy that needed dominant pro bowl players to make work.

Frankly, as an Offensive coach, i always found the 3-4 to be a harder defense to plan against when manned with average talent then the 4-3. You can scheme a pass rush with a 3-4. you don't need to get a lot of sacks to disrupt an offense. get in the QB's face enough and you'll see turnovers even if you're not getting sacks. Getting in the QB's face is what the 3-4 does best.

The trick is, you need good defensive coaches. and you need players who can play 2-gap scheme. You got that and you can play good defense with a 3-4 without amazing talent.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2



I guess that the Steelers lucked out winning 4 superbowls in the 70s with the defense!

The defense doesn't work when you can't pressure the QB and don't have a playmaking safety.

There are teams that run the 3-4 that are staying home too!

That must mean the 3-4 isn't good enough either.

Wait, there's 4-3 teams staying home too...must not be good enough.

NO DEFENSE is good enough when the personnel you have is second rate.

But I love how people love to sit and blame the scheme not the personnel.

[colin]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

it ain't the x's and o's as much as it is the willies and the joes

[Ingtar33]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

it ain't the x's and o's as much as it is the willies and the joes

Not entirely true. Yes good players help. and i don't know a coach who wouldn't want them. But if you have a good staff. and do a good job implementing your playbook; and call a smart game, you can win with mediocre talent (maybe not a national title game... or a superbowl, but you should be able to get to the playoffs, or a bowl game; look at miami)

[Mr. Pink]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

Not entirely true. Yes good players help. and i don't know a coach who wouldn't want them. But if you have a good staff. and do a good job implementing your playbook; and call a smart game, you can win with mediocre talent (maybe not a national title game... or a superbowl, but you should be able to get to the playoffs, or a bowl game)

We do win about as many games as we should with the talent base.

We're a mediocre to average team from the top all the way down....

We get mediocre to average results year after year.

[OpIv37]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

the Tampa-2 worked in Tampa for a pretty simple reason.

Rice, Sapp, Brooks, Barber and Lynch

they could pressure up the middle and at the edge and run stop without blitzing. They had playmakers who were turnover machines.

This was a defense that was designed to stop a WCO, by forcing the WCO to go on 10 or 12 play drives. By design it's a bend but don't break defense. When done right it can feast on poor offenses, especially offenses that don't run well.

part of the reason I've begged the team to dump the 4-3 front since we got it, was because both gimmicky schemes we ran (46 and Tampa2) were based off a strategy that needed dominant pro bowl players to make work.

Frankly, as an Offensive coach, i always found the 3-4 to be a harder defense to plan against when manned with average talent then the 4-3. You can scheme a pass rush with a 3-4. you don't need to get a lot of sacks to disrupt an offense. get in the QB's face enough and you'll see turnovers even if you're not getting sacks. Getting in the QB's face is what the 3-4 does best.

The trick is, you need good defensive coaches. and you need players who can play 2-gap scheme. You got that and you can play good defense with a 3-4 without amazing talent.

but but but... I thought the whole reason we went to the Tampa 2 in the first place was because it doesn't require amazing talent!



Several people on this board, myself included, saw this coming, despite having significantly less football knowledge than you do. And while coaching at the college level is impressive and gives you more football knowledge than anyone else on this board, it's not the same as being at the NFL level. Please understand that I do NOT mean that as an insult at all- I'm just so frustrated that so many people with less football knowledge and experience than our supposedly professional coaching staff can see this coming, but they can't.

[ddaryl]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

funtimes

the article pretty much says that you need to generate pass rush from the front 4, which is something the Bills have never been able to do. SO yes personell is important. We all know we need an upgrade on our DL. However it is very hard to maintain multiple probowl caliber DL to make the scheme work and to keep it working. The fact remains that the Tampa 2 is a bend don't break D scheme, and I for one don't respect that style of play in any aspect of the game.

I have no idea what the Steelers did for thier D scheme in the 1970's but most schemes ran in the 1970's are useless today. The NFL is ever evolving, and the Tamap 2 has been exposed, and good teams and coaches easily find ways to expose it regularly. What the Steelers did with it in the 1970's is completely irrelevant in how it works today IMO.

The majority of the NFL plays a 3-4 D, why is that ???? Probably has to do with the fact that the more successul teams of the past few years use it. It also is the reason why the other 3-4 teams are staying home, only 12 teams make it to dance.

[ddaryl]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

it ain't the x's and o's as much as it is the willies and the joes

BS... then why does New England stay on top even through many years where most every expert said they did so with sub-par talent.. It was the Bellicheck factor.

Why do teams shell out huge monies to experienced winning coaches. Bottom line is no team in this league is stacked top to bottom with great talent. Its the coaches that turn many of these average players into star player by the way they coach and prepare them.

[Philagape]

Re: The DEATH of the TAMPA 2

It needs great personnel more than other schemes do.
And one hole can hurt the whole D more than in other schemes.
And even if that's covered, it still allows long drives, which makes the offense cold and the defense tired. Therefore it depends on the offense for help to make the other team play catch-up.
How many times have we wanted a certain player only to be told "he doesn't fit our scheme"? This scheme greatly limits the talent pool from which to choose. It's because of this scheme that we took Whitner eighth overall.
That's too many cons, and too much has to go right for it to work.