Bills 2009 Draft Review

[yordad]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

not bad Yordad. But i think the difference in how we view this draft is based purely on perception.

by your comments you clearly thought the inside of the bills o-line was alright.

I do not. In fact, since the turn of the decade the inside of our line has been consistently poor. I was thrilled to see the bills address this, rather then draft yet another tackle. (Part of the problem the Bills have had with the OL is that we fill all 5 spots with tackles. Simply put, we rarely had guys on the line who actually played inside durring college. The result is we often had "soft" hearts to our lines, with guards and centers who couldn't handle bull rushes, or couldn't get into the 2nd level particularly well). When you add Hartinger and McKinney to the mix we have 4 "true" inside the tackle linemen, for the first time in a decade. We'll be moving the poorly miscast RG Butler (who never played guard in college, and it showed) back outside where he belongs. That's positive as far as im concerned.

Now, the final question becomes, do you trust Walker at LT? That's the million dollar question. I don't know if im thrilled with that idea, but i would rather 4 strong linemen, and one weak one, then 3 or 4 weak linemen and 1 strong one, like it looked like we were going to have before the draft (even if the weak one is LT).

I think we went a long way toward laying the foundation for a fantastic offensive line.

Now the players have to go out there and do it.

I think Butler was good at G. I consider Hangartner to be an upgrade at center. We got Wood, which again, wasn't bad. I liked an inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. But, at this point, I want to get someone, anyone, who may grow to be a good LT. Because I do not think we have a solution anywhere right now. I am not convinced Langston can stay solid there for "the future", let alone, 16 games.

The only possible long term solution on the entire roster is D. Bell, last years 7th rounder. That is a lot of faith they are seemingly putting in this guy. Now, what if he is better, sooner then later? What if Butler at RT or Walker at LT is just horrible, and they decided to try D.Bell out there at the bye? What if he enters at OT. What do you do with Butler now? Do you put him back inside, then move Wood to the left guard spot, and put Levitre (a guy that cost you two good picks) on the bench?

That is a lot of swapping around. I would have preferred the inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. Then letting Bell, Chambers, Britton/Loadholt fight it out for the RT while Langston temporary held the left. With Bell, Britton, or Loadholt starting on the right for 8 games (to the bye), or even a season, we could then possibly have a future solution for LT, and if a swap happened, everyone else stays the same.

[yordad]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

Why not make your own is all I'm saying. That way people can review just your report.

I guess I just didn't realize you were going to like it so much. I wasn't trying to steal Ingtar33's thunder, and I don't think I did. I was just trying to share my opinion back with him, and the rest of ya.

[Mitchell55]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

I guess I just didn't realize you were going to like it so much. I wasn't trying to steal Ingtar33's thunder, and I don't think I did. I was just trying to share my opinion back with him, and the rest of ya.

If it makes you feel any better, I didnt even read your report.

[Goobylal]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

I think Butler was good at G. I consider Hartinger to be an upgrade at center. We got Wood, which again, wasn't bad. I liked an inside of Butler, Hartinger, and Wood. But, at this point, I want to get someone, anyone, who may grow to be a good LT. Because I do not think we have a solution anywhere right now. I am not convinced Langston can stay solid there for "the future", let alone, 16 games.

The only possible long term solution on the entire roster is D. Bell, last years 7th rounder. That is a lot of faith they are seemingly putting in this guy. Now, what if he is better, sooner then later? What if Butler at RT or Walker at LT is just horrible, and they decided to try D.Bell out there at the bye? What if he enters at OT. What do you do with Butler now? Do you put him back inside, then move Wood to the left guard spot, and put Levitre (a guy that cost you two good picks) on the bench?

That is a lot of swapping around. I would have preferred the inside of Butler, Hartinger, and Wood. Then letting Bell, Chambers, Britton/Loadholt fight it out for the RT while Langston temporary held the left. With Bell, Britton, or Loadholt starting on the right for 8 games (to the bye), or even a season, we could then possibly have a future solution for LT, and if a swap happened, everyone else stays the same.

If Walker proves to be good at LT and Butler good at RT, they'll probably let Bell develop another year. If Walker struggles, they probably give Bell a shot and help (TE on his side) if needed. If Butler struggles, they probably start Bell, give him help, and put Walker back at RT.

[Ingtar33]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

I think Butler was good at G. I consider Hangartner to be an upgrade at center. We got Wood, which again, wasn't bad. I liked an inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. But, at this point, I want to get someone, anyone, who may grow to be a good LT. Because I do not think we have a solution anywhere right now. I am not convinced Langston can stay solid there for "the future", let alone, 16 games.

The only possible long term solution on the entire roster is D. Bell, last years 7th rounder. That is a lot of faith they are seemingly putting in this guy. Now, what if he is better, sooner then later? What if Butler at RT or Walker at LT is just horrible, and they decided to try D.Bell out there at the bye? What if he enters at OT. What do you do with Butler now? Do you put him back inside, then move Wood to the left guard spot, and put Levitre (a guy that cost you two good picks) on the bench?

That is a lot of swapping around. I would have preferred the inside of Butler, Hangartner, and Wood. Then letting Bell, Chambers, Britton/Loadholt fight it out for the RT while Langston temporary held the left. With Bell, Britton, or Loadholt starting on the right for 8 games (to the bye), or even a season, we could then possibly have a future solution for LT, and if a swap happened, everyone else stays the same.

All fair points.

I didn't like butler at guard because he was at his best a C+ guard. and a C+ line isn't going to win you a lot of games, unless you have the Pittsburgh Steeler's defense.

If Butler can do better at tackle then he did at guard we have something. The little he played at tackle last year, he did pretty good. Better then i thought he did at Guard

Personally, i think you'll see Wood at center before the first game of the year, and Hangartner at guard. Mostly because guard is Hangartner's better position.

[yordad]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

I think it is also worth mention Duke Robinson lasted til the end of the 5th.

1. Orakpo
1. Britton
2. E. Brown
3. DJ Moore or Caldwell
4. S. Nelson
4. Freeman
5. Duke Robinson
6. Southerland (FB)

0R

1. Maybin
1. Wood
2. Byrd
2. Levitre
4. Nelson
5. Harris
6. Harris

[The Spaz]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

We will find out if center or guard is hangartner's best position. He thinks center is his best position.

[Mitchell55]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

I think it is also worth mention Duke Robinson lasted til the end of the 5th.

1. Orakpo
1. Britton
2. E. Brown
3. DJ Moore or Caldwell
4. S. Nelson
4. Freeman
5. Duke Robinson
6. Southerland (FB)

32 teams passed up on him 5 times, why would we want to take him?

[TigerJ]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

My only criticism of your write up, Ingtar is that the Bills' center is Hangartner, not Hartinger. A lot of people wonder about those last two picks, but if you're going to waste a couple of picks it's far better that they be in rounds six and seven than rounds one and two. I think the only way they could have had a better first six picks would have been to find a sure fire starting left tackle.

[Ingtar33]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

My only criticism of your write up, Ingtar is that the Bills' center is Hangartner, not Hartinger. A lot of people wonder about those last two picks, but if you're going to waste a couple of picks it's far better that they be in rounds six and seven than rounds one and two. I think the only way they could have had a better first six picks would have been to find a sure fire starting left tackle.

I loved the bell pick last year because i thought he had the potential to be something special... maybe not this soon.

But i can't fault your comments. the only place i could pick a LT better the the guy we took was when we made our first pick, yet we need pass rush so much, i can't fault the bills for taking one. Especially since it was Maybin. Had it been Orakpo or Brown, i would have had a lot of problem with that pick... i never in my wildest dreams imagined that Maybin was on the board at 11.

that would have been like Peppers falling past 5 when he was taken in 2002 at number 2

[yordad]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

32 teams passed up on him 5 times, why would we want to take him?

Your kidding, right?

[don137]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

One thing I wonder about is how fast will it take these players to get acclimated to their new positions. Wood, Byrd and Harris are being brought in to play another position than they did at college.

[psubills62]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

One thing I wonder about is how fast will it take these players to get acclimated to their new positions. Wood, Byrd and Harris are being brought in to play another position than they did at college.

But the good thing is that the positions they are moving too generally require similar skill sets to what they used in college.

I don't know for sure, but it sounds like Harris was more of an in-the-box safety, so converting to linebacker still uses him in the box, but now he's simply a LB instead of S. Byrd is still going to cover, he just covers more of the field and has a chance to use his instincts. Wood is just moving one spot over on the line.

I just don't see it as a huge deal. Maybe if we were converting someone from tight end to linebacker, or defensive tackle to offensive tackle, then I would be concerned. But these position changes just don't worry me that much.

[psubills62]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

Good analysis Ingtar.

I think Buffalo's focus on the interior of the line signifies a commitment especially to the running game. That may seem obvious, but if you look at teams like Carolina, or NYG - these teams run the ball extraordinarily well, and they can run at will. It doesn't usually matter if the other team sees it coming or not.

I believe our team wants to be able to do the same thing - run at will against anyone, which will in turn set up the pass for Edwards. Edwards has shown the ability to take over a game, but not consistently. I think they want to provide him with the weapons, but put as little pressure on him as possible with a dominant running game. They also want to be able to run against 3 down linemen when our 3-4 opponents drop 8 into coverage to stop Edwards (like they did last year, starting with Miami).

[Ed]

Re: Bills 2009 Draft Review

Great report Ingtar!

A couple things jumped out at me. I'm glad you mentioned Jevon Kearse because I think a lot of people are making too big a deal out of Maybins weight, but a lot of good DE's actually play at less then 250 and Kearse was the first guy that came to mind. When Gregg Williams was here, he said Kearse never weighed more then 245 during the season. Plus Maybin is only 21. It's not like he won't naturally fill out a little more too.

I also loved the Harris pick. I have to admitt that I'm not a big college football fan, but I actually watched a fair amount of Big 12 games this year and one of the the few guys that always stuck out to me was Harris. I love the way he plays and I was surprised to learn he ran such a slow 40 time at the combine because he didn't seem slow to me in games. So I hope he can learn the OLB position quickly because I think he could be a real playmaker and a fun player to have on the team. He comes from a big time program and made a lot of plays against some pretty good offenses. My only concern is that we don't make the playoffs this year, our coaching staff gets fired, so we start over with some new scheme and he no longer fits anywhere.

Good points on our OL too. We've been soft for too long. So it would be nice to see us develop some real attitude and be able to push defenses around, especially later in the year when it's cold and windy.

Sounds like Byrd could end up being a good pick too. I like what you had to say because that was definitely a WTF immediate reaction when I saw his name come up.

So Ingtar, do you like any of our UDFA's so far? And what would you think if we picked up Levi Jones to play LT? I actually feel pretty good about moving Walker there.