Over the last few seasons....

[OpIv37]

Which players have actually improved signficantly from one season to the next, and how many games has it helped us win?

Admittedly, the second part of that is difficult to quantify. But every off-season, I keep hearing about how this team is supposed to improve via the young guys we have getting better. Well, it never seems to happen.

Going back to 2006, the first post-Donahoe year, how many players have actually improved from one season to the next enough to really help this team?

Jason Peters? Definitely
Fred Jackson? Definitely
Greer? Yes
Lee Evans? Yes, but he later regressed.
Kyle Williams? Yes, but he later regressed.
Youboty? Yes, but he can't stay on the field.
Lynch? Arguably, but he was pretty damn good his rookie year too.
Parrish? Nope (arguably as a PR, but he was always a good PR)
Whitner? Nope.
Poz? Nope.
Losman? Nope.
Edwards? Nope.
Butler? Arguably.
Royal? Nope.
McCargo? Nope.
Ellison? Nope.

I can really only come up with 3 good examples of players who improved significantly from one year to the next without later regressing, and two of them aren't even here anymore.

So, help me out- either give me the names of guys that I missed, or end this ridiculous myth about how "player improvement" is going to make this team better. It's this cliche that's been floating around this board for at least 3 years and it has yet to actually materialize on the field.

[justasportsfan]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...d.php?t=175487

[OpIv37]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...d.php?t=175487

first, someone missed the sarcasm in that post.

Second, there is no whining going on here. I'm merely commenting on how people on this board have attached themselves to a cliche despite the fact that it's not true. It's a legitimate discussion of the team and how it's viewed on this board.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I think Butler is a def yes but he's my favorite lineman. I think Reed has def improved. I agree with the rest but I do think this was Poz first true season. For us to have any sucess next season Trent and Poz must take the next step. The other two guys who must improve are Fine and McCargo, strickly for depth. McKelvin is a slam dunk to improve and I think will be an allpro type corner.

[justasportsfan]

first, someone missed the sarcasm in that post. .

I got the sarcasm, it's just funny to point it out .

Second, there is no whining going on here. I'm merely commenting on how people on this board have attached themselves to a cliche despite the fact that it's not true. It's a legitimate discussion of the team and how it's viewed on this board.

na, it's just a smokescreen for you to continue whats going on in HH thread.

[OpIv37]

na, it's just a smokescreen for you to continue whats going on in HH thread.

more or less- this is a related issue to what's going on in that thread, but that thread is already to convoluted to give it proper attention. So I started a new one.

[Mr. Pink]

Trent Edwards improved, but then regressed....the concussion might have had some impact on that though.

Josh Reed has progressed overall since Donahoe, but I dunno if he's doing year after year. Basically he's peaked, which is better than what he was while Donahoe was in charge.

The DT position itself has improved, Tim Anderson to Stroud.

That's all I can think of.

[TheMan08]

Trent regressed due to concussion. In first 5 games last year, he was impressive.

If protected Trent will be a good QB.

[OpIv37]

Trent Edwards improved, but then regressed....the concussion might have had some impact on that though.

Josh Reed has progressed overall since Donahoe, but I dunno if he's doing year after year. Basically he's peaked, which is better than what he was while Donahoe was in charge.

The DT position itself has improved, Tim Anderson to Stroud.

That's all I can think of.

and even the DT improvement was a personnel change and not player improvement.

[Mr. Pink]

and even the DT improvement was a personnel change and not player improvement.

True, but improvement is improvement.

Or were you only looking for actual players that have improved?

If so I only got 2.

[OpIv37]

Trent regressed due to concussion. In first 5 games last year, he was impressive.

If protected Trent will be a good QB.

I'd say it was a combination of a concussion and having to play better teams. I'm not sold on him yet, but I agree that it depends a lot on the protection. If the OL doesn't hold up, he's screwed either way (and the rest of the team is screwed with him).

[TheMan08]

Tim Anderson was a beast.

[OpIv37]

True, but improvement is improvement.

Or were you only looking for actual players that have improved?

If so I only got 2.

Players, because so many people on this board seem to be counting on "player improvement" for this team to get better. Many people talk about it but I just don't see it happening.

[OpIv37]

Tim Anderson was a beast.

only at Old Country Buffet.

[TheMan08]

I'd say it was a combination of a concussion and having to play better teams. I'm not sold on him yet, but I agree that it depends a lot on the protection. If the OL doesn't hold up, he's screwed either way (and the rest of the team is screwed iwith him).

He played well vs San Diego, Jax, Oak. They aren't bad defensive teams. Oak is a pretty good defensive team. They suck at offense and bonehead penalties.

[TheMan08]

I hate my new avatar. Bedard's a bastard

[Philagape]

I don't think Evans has regressed as a player, even if his stats have. He's still the same player he was in 2006, but circumstances (inconsistent QBs, no other receiving threat) limit his numbers. I think his place in the league is a great tandem receiver who needs someone to draw attention off him.

[Tatonka]

Trent regressed due to concussion. In first 5 games last year, he was impressive.

If protected Trent will be a good QB.

how do you explain the near perfect game in san diego after the concussion? then he followed that with the worst qb performance i have ever seen in cleveland.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

how do you explain the near perfect game in san diego after the concussion? then he followed that with the worst qb performance i have ever seen in cleveland.

Positive they played the Dolphins after that, Cleveland was like week 10.

[Mudflap1]

how do you explain the near perfect game in san diego after the concussion? then he followed that with the worst qb performance i have ever seen in cleveland.

I thought I read somewhere that he got his bell rung somewhere either at the end of the San Diego game, in practice, or the beginning of the next game, and had recurring symptoms. Might be true, might be BS.