Should College Players be Paid

[EricStratton]

Forked from: Jim Tressel resigns

I don't mind paying a college athlete, but how do you then differentiate it? Does a football player make X amount of dollars and the girls lacrosse team make this XX amount? Also, these kids know what they are getting into. Nobody forces any of them to go to college and play football.

This is the question that seems to be the fall-back position, should players be paid and how much.

I've always thought this still won't solve the major violations but it would clean up some of the minor ones.

TGoJK makes a great point as to who gets paid what, should your sport (Men's basketball vs women's tennis) and your position on that team (starting QB vs 3rd string kicker) matter to your pay scale and how should that pay compare to other paid positions in a college.

[DraftBoy]

Pay revenue generating sports only. Otherwise you're talking about huge budget black holes.

[Dr. Lecter]

Pay revenue generating sports only. Otherwise you're talking about huge budget black holes.

That would be different at every school. And how do you determine revenue producing? What about Title IX? What about public universities? Ivy league schools? Who controls the pay?

Under your plan the rich get richer. Duke basketball would have an even easier time recruiting when it is paying guys and a school like St. Bonaventure would be crippled.

[EricStratton]

The main rule change I'd be in favor of would be allowing kids to get jobs but that would be contingent on the compliance officer checking out the job first to prevent the Bosworth type jobs of the 70's and 80's.

[DraftBoy]

That would be different at every school. And how do you determine revenue producing? What about Title IX? What about public universities? Ivy league schools? Who controls the pay?

Under your plan the rich get richer. Duke basketball would have an even easier time recruiting when it is paying guys and a school like St. Bonaventure would be crippled.

You don't enforce by school, you look at every sport at the NCAA DI level and say ok sports X,Y, and Z make money across the board. Therefor schools must offer a stipend payment per semester of A to each athlete on scholarship in those sports.

Title IX doesnt apply to paying athletes as far as I can tell. What about public universities? Plenty of public universities cut athletic programs all the time. What about Ivy League schools? NCAA would have to regulate it, or appoint an independent auditing board to do it.

Are there holes in it? Of course but the current system in broken, the kids are getting screwed in the system and we need something.

[DraftBoy]

The main rule change I'd be in favor of would be allowing kids to get jobs but that would be contingent on the compliance officer checking out the job first to prevent the Bosworth type jobs of the 70's and 80's.

I have no issue with that either, but the NCAA will want to regulate the amount of hours they could work per week in season.

Plus that further takes away from their study time since they are "student" athletes. Or so people like to call them.

[The King]

absolutely not. their tuition is paid their boarding is paid...

[DraftBoy]

absolutely not. their tuition is paid their boarding is paid...

So are tons of other people who are not athletes and the idea that a degree is worth anything in terms of actual dollars is a false premise.

[Ebenezer]

So are tons of other people who are not athletes and the idea that a degree is worth anything in terms of actual dollars is a false premise.

Those other non-athletes are not paid to be (fill in the blank) majors. They get their scholarship and financial aid. They don't get pocket change. If you are going to let college athletes get a job then you better increase the number of people in the compliance office otherwise the starting QB is going to be "working" at the local (fill in the blank) for $100K a year. They want a job at BK making minimum, fine. Just like all the "other kids".

[DraftBoy]

Those other non-athletes are not paid to be (fill in the blank) majors. They get their scholarship and financial aid. They don't get pocket change. If you are going to let college athletes get a job then you better increase the number of people in the compliance office otherwise the starting QB is going to be "working" at the local (fill in the blank) for $100K a year. They want a job at BK making minimum, fine. Just like all the "other kids".

Student loans defeat you're entire argument as do grants. Both of which can be used for "pocket change". They are also allowed to work as well which athletes are not given the opportunity to get.


You're not going to sell me on the plight of the disadvantaged college kid theory, Im sorry but Ive been there and its just not as true as some want to believe it is.

[Ebenezer]

Student loans defeat you're entire argument as do grants. Both of which can be used for "pocket change". They are also allowed to work as well which athletes are not given the opportunity to get.


You're not going to sell me on the plight of the disadvantaged college kid theory, Im sorry but Ive been there and its just not as true as some want to believe it is.

I don't know what point you are trying to hit home. It is absolutely as true that the average biology major is as broke as the athlete - maybe more so. Part of their package is room & bored. Show me a biology major that gets that. Part of their package is clothing. Show me a chemistry major that gets that.

Yes, athletes can't hold a job. No, they may have no way of getting home just to visit the folks. Yes, they can take out loans but that is exactly as I said, pocket change. All your doing is changing the language. My point is not over who gets what in their financial package. My point is what the athlete will get in an unregulated free for all. If you don't enforce it then the better players will be "earning" $100K. My point was to say that athletes should be able to work - at BK for minimum wage. Just like the "other college kids". If we are going to make believe that they are not like "other college kids" then let's just get rid of college sports, make them all club and let those that have a chance to make the pros go right to the minors after high school.

[DraftBoy]

I don't know what point you are trying to hit home. It is absolutely as true that the average biology major is as broke as the athlete - maybe more so. Part of their package is room & bored. Show me a biology major that gets that. Part of their package is clothing. Show me a chemistry major that gets that.

Yes, athletes can't hold a job. No, they may have no way of getting home just to visit the folks. Yes, they can take out loans but that is exactly as I said, pocket change. All your doing is changing the language. My point is not over who gets what in their financial package. My point is what the athlete will get in an unregulated free for all. If you don't enforce it then the better players will be "earning" $100K. My point attempt towas to say that athletes should be able to work - at BK for minimum wage. Just like the "other college kids". If we are going to make believe that they are not like "other college kids" then let's just get rid of college sports, make them all club and let those that have a chance to make the pros go right to the minors after high school.

Really? Are you going to say that academic scholarships don't exist? Hell scholarships for things like Band exist. Yet only athletic scholarship recipients are subject to such strict rules and enforcement.

Athletes are not allowed to take out student loans because they do not qualify. Regular students are.

And I honestly dont know one college kid who worked for minimum wage anywhere. If they did they were an idiot, because there are 100's of other jobs available for more money.

[Night Train]

Pay revenue generating sports only. Otherwise you're talking about huge budget black holes.

This

[Ebenezer]

Really? Are you going to say that academic scholarships don't exist? Hell scholarships for things like Band exist. Yet only athletic scholarship recipients are subject to such strict rules and enforcement.

Athletes are not allowed to take out student loans because they do not qualify. Regular students are.

And I honestly dont know one college kid who worked for minimum wage anywhere. If they did they were an idiot, because there are 100's of other jobs available for more money.

I still don't know why you are arguing. We don't disagree on this other than you are making the athlete sound flat broke poor and others rich. Look, I'll say it as simply as I can.....

Let student-athletes play under the same rules as every other college student. They can take out loans, they can work jobs and they can get grants. However, if other students don't get their R&B and clothing paid for then athletes don't either. Further, you better increase compliance offices so to ensure that they are not being overpaid to do nothing - i.e., ensure that the starting QB isn't being paid $100K or payments for sports being masked as a job.

Is that better?

[chernobylwraiths]

No. They get a lot of freebies already as has been discussed and get a completely free education (if they even use it). The only sport where it is necessary for college players to stay in school is football because of the age eligibility rule in the NFL.

If they were even thinking about paying athletes, which would cause even worse student athlete problems than already exist IMO, then they would have to have revenue sharing from all the schools across the board for everything to even out the playing field. They should even share money to the lesser programs like division double A and such so that they won't fall even farther behind. That is the big reason why it would never happen IMO. Not only would the schools balk at paying the athletes out of their pocket, the big schools won't give all the money they make away to other schools either. College sports would be worse than major league baseball in that only a few teams would have any chance at all every year.

[DraftBoy]

I still don't know why you are arguing. We don't disagree on this other than you are making the athlete sound flat broke poor and others rich. Look, I'll say it as simply as I can.....

Let student-athletes play under the same rules as every other college student. They can take out loans, they can work jobs and they can get grants. However, if other students don't get their R&B and clothing paid for then athletes don't either. Further, you better increase compliance offices so to ensure that they are not being overpaid to do nothing - i.e., ensure that the starting QB isn't being paid $100K or payments for sports being masked as a job.

Is that better?

Not entirely, but its a good step in the right direction. Student Athletes are not the same as other college students. They are asked to do more than any other student (in most cases). They are also whored out more than any other student. Having looked at Athletic Department financial statements you would be apalled at how much some of these universities are making off the football and basketball teams yet the players have to live under rules that we all seem to agree (other than Chern) are ridiculous and over the line.

Please stop with the clothing line comments they are false, almost every university requires that the clothing be returned at seasons end. Do you think these guys just have closets full of jump suits sitting around?

I have no issue with increasing compliance.

The natural question left is am I in support of a system that treats them better than other college students and the answer is yes. If they are going to be marketed as stars you need to treat them as such. Im not saying pay them millions or even hundreds of thousands, but I dont think a 3-5K stipend per semester is anything anybody would find absurb. That's about the same amount the grad assistants made at my university and all they did was make copies and proctor exams.

[DraftBoy]

No. They get a lot of freebies already as has been discussed and get a completely free education (if they even use it). The only sport where it is necessary for college players to stay in school is football because of the age eligibility rule in the NFL.

If they were even thinking about paying athletes, which would cause even worse student athlete problems than already exist IMO, then they would have to have revenue sharing from all the schools across the board for everything to even out the playing field. They should even share money to the lesser programs like division double A and such so that they won't fall even farther behind. That is the big reason why it would never happen IMO. Not only would the schools balk at paying the athletes out of their pocket, the big schools won't give all the money they make away to other schools either. College sports would be worse than major league baseball in that only a few teams would have any chance at all every year.

Name the freebies and put the dollar value next to it, in terms of real dollars not what the university absurdly charges for it.

[Ebenezer]

Not entirely, but its a good step in the right direction. Student Athletes are not the same as other college students. They are asked to do more than any other student (in most cases).

That's BS. Out and out BS. I have a former student who just ran her first HM this weekend. She is a 4.0 senior in nursing. Her program requires her to work a 40 hour internship and take one three credit class. Her internship requires her to work in a hospital, take classes at school and get tested on all of the material. She puts in a massive amount of hours. Training for her HM took hours and hours of training. She still belongs to a couple of campus clubs and, I think, has a boyfriend. I know several students in this situation. Many students have tough loads to carry. If the grind of being a college athlete is too hard for some of these kids then maybe we should start to examine how they spend their day. Start with their classes and work outward from there. Kill all practices and workouts from Feb 1 to July 1 if needed. If we are going to treat them like regular students then they should fit the definition.

[Ebenezer]

Name the freebies and put the dollar value next to it, in terms of real dollars not what the university absurdly charges for it.

Pryor was getting a different new car every other couple of months...that's one guy on one team. Think he was the only one? The system is rampant with cheating.

[Ebenezer]

Please stop with the clothing line comments they are false, almost every university requires that the clothing be returned at seasons end. Do you think these guys just have closets full of jump suits sitting around?

I have been an undergrad at a college, a post-doc at a second and now a professor at a third - I've seem athletes back to 1984 and they were their stuff all year long.

The natural question left is am I in support of a system that treats them better than other college students and the answer is yes. If they are going to be marketed as stars you need to treat them as such. Im not saying pay them millions or even hundreds of thousands, but I dont think a 3-5K stipend per semester is anything anybody would find absurb. That's about the same amount the grad assistants made at my university and all they did was make copies and proctor exams.

We disagree. Sports are a perk. They should be real college students. Go to class, study your ass off and show up for your "club" like every other student. too much time, effort and money is spent on college sports. Many of these guys (and some gals) are their only to continue playing their game - I see it all the time at a Div. III School (esp. among the male athletes). Does that sound like we need to destroy the system to save it? Yes.