Tom Modrak is back!

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

This is LUDICROUS you call Modrack a scapegoat then deny you defended him or backtracked just incredible & very disingenuous.

He was by the fan base. I'm not defending Modrack, Im defending idiotic logic.

If you want to know if I think Modrack should of been fired simply because of how he did his job maybe you should just ask that question, not make wildly inaccurate statements with capitalizations and bold words that do nothing to help but further categorize your arguments as uninformed.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Since you don't know if Nix fired Modrak then you have no way of knowing if he was a scapegoat.

True, though my argument is more than the fanbase considers him one which allowed the organization the get out of jail free card and makes him more of a martyr than a scape goat from an organizational standpoint.

But I can I prove it? No, but I do enjoy showing people how idiotic their arguments are when they just blindly say Modrack sucked besides him picking our best players and having selected 8 of our slated 2012 starters and multiple players that will play key backup roles this season.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Since you don't know if Nix fired Modrak then you have no way of knowing if he was a scapegoat.

Oh and I already know there next argument which makes this all the more enjoyable.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

True, though my argument is more than the fanbase considers him one which allowed the organization the get out of jail free card and makes him more of a martyr than a scape goat from an organizational standpoint.

But I can I prove it? No, but I do enjoy showing people how idiotic their arguments are when they just blindly say Modrack sucked besides him picking our best players and having selected 8 of our slated 2012 starters and multiple players that will play key backup roles this season.

I've defended Modrak for years. But since we have no info other than his misses in the draft and then being fired then it isn't idiotic to think that he sucked while he was here .

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

I've defended Modrak for years. But since we have no info other than his misses in the draft and then being fired then it isn't idiotic to think that he sucked while he was here .

We have more info now. Was he not with the team when we picked 8 of our current starters? The info is there, you just have to look for it.

The reason you fire him is there to.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

We have more info now. Was he not with the team when we picked 8 of our current starters? The info is there, you just have to look for it.

The reason you fire him is there to.

Again, he's had more misses than those 8 starters.

[k-oneputt]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

We have more info now. Was he not with the team when we picked 8 of our current starters? The info is there, you just have to look for it.

The reason you fire him is there to.

Who are the eight starters that were drafted by Modrak ?

Levitre, Wood, Johnson, Williams, Byrd

Kelsay and McGee may or may not start this year, and both could just as easily not even make the final roster.

I count five. And that is a horrible job.

Why don't you list his busts. That should take a while.

[better days]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

He was by the fan base. I'm not defending Modrack, Im defending idiotic logic.

If you want to know if I think Modrack should of been fired simply because of how he did his job maybe you should just ask that question, not make wildly inaccurate statements with capitalizations and bold words that do nothing to help but further categorize your arguments as uninformed.

Like I said you have been very disingenuous in this thread. Your posting in this thread is very similar to Pat Moran who is also disingenuous.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Again, he's had more misses than those 8 starters.

Now we're getting somewhere. Well start at what is considered a miss. Are we talking top two round picks, no starts, some starts? For example, Whitner is that a miss despite being a multi-year starter for two different teams?

Not by my definition but some will say it is. Also do we count 2010 or is it too soon to tell with a guy like Maybin who sucked here but has done much better with the Jets?

We know guys like Mike Williams, John McCargo were clear misses there is no argument there, but what about guys like Whitner, Maybin?

Here are his top two picks from each draft since 2001;
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Marcell Dareus DT Alabama -HIT
2 34 Aaron Williams DB Texas -HIT

2010 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 9 C.J. Spiller RB Clemson -HIT
2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida -MISS

2009 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State -MISS (though it could be a hit if he continues to develop)
1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville -HIT


2008 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy -HIT (Could be a miss if his poor play continues)
2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana -MISS

2007 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California -HIT
2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State -HIT

2006 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State -HIT
1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State -MISS

2005 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) -MISS
3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) -MISS

2004 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin -HIT
1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane -MISS

2003 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.)-HIT
2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska -HIT

2002 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 4 Mike Williams T Texas -MISS
2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State -HIT

2001 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State -HIT
2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian -HIT

That's 24 picks during the Modrak tenure, I have it at 13 to 8 Hit to Miss ratio. Now for me that's not good enough, but let's be clear about what we actually mean by hits and misses. If you draft a player and he's a multi-year starter or big time contributor to your ball club that's a hit. Missing means the pick was literally wasted on a player who can't contribute. Some of my calls are 50/50 so what are yours?

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Like I said you have been very disingenuous in this thread. Your posting in this thread is very similar to Pat Moran who is also disingenuous.

Nice, I'll ask you to refrain from comment about me as a person and simply stick on topic if you wish to continue this discussion.

[better days]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Nice, I'll ask you to refrain from comment about me as a person and simply stick on topic if you wish to continue this discussion.

No point in continuing this discussion when you deny defending Modrack yet have done nothing but that in this thread.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

No point in continuing this discussion when you deny defending Modrack yet have done nothing but that in this thread.

Challenging ill perceived logic is not a defense, if you can't see the difference between the two then I don't see any reason for you to continue either.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Now we're getting somewhere. Well start at what is considered a miss. Are we talking top two round picks, no starts, some starts? For example, Whitner is that a miss despite being a multi-year starter for two different teams?

Not by my definition but some will say it is. Also do we count 2010 or is it too soon to tell with a guy like Maybin who sucked here but has done much better with the Jets?

We know guys like Mike Williams, John McCargo were clear misses there is no argument there, but what about guys like Whitner, Maybin?

Here are his top two picks from each draft since 2001;
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Marcell Dareus DT Alabama -HIT
2 34 Aaron Williams DB Texas -HIT

2010 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 9 C.J. Spiller RB Clemson -HIT
2 41 Torell Troup DT Central Florida -MISS

2009 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State -MISS (though it could be a hit if he continues to develop)
1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville -HIT


2008 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy -HIT (Could be a miss if his poor play continues)
2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana -MISS

2007 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California -HIT
2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State -HIT

2006 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State -HIT
1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State -MISS

2005 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) -MISS
3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) -MISS

2004 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin -HIT
1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane -MISS

2003 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.)-HIT
2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska -HIT

2002 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 4 Mike Williams T Texas -MISS
2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State -HIT

2001 - Buffalo Bills
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State -HIT
2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian -HIT

That's 24 picks during the Modrak tenure, I have it at 13 to 8 Hit to Miss ratio. Now for me that's not good enough, but let's be clear about what we actually mean by hits and misses. If you draft a player and he's a multi-year starter or big time contributor to your ball club that's a hit. Missing means the pick was literally wasted on a player who can't contribute. Some of my calls are 50/50 so what are yours?

I wouldn't call guys like Whitner, POZ, Lynch,Mckelvin hits unless your definition of hits are using high draft picks on would be average players. Guys like Kyle are hits in my book because they have played better than where they were drafted.

[better days]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Challenging ill perceived logic is not a defense, if you can't see the difference between the two then I don't see any reason for you to continue either.

Don't criticize me for rightly calling you disingenuious then post something as absurd as this.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Tom Modrak is back!

Don't criticize me for rightly calling you disingenuious then post something as absurd as this.

Im not cirtizing you, Im continuing to tell you that you do not understand the point. I have asked you once, and Im only going to ask you one more time, please refrain from any personal attack.

Acting like a grown up is not difficult, and I don't want to block you, because usually I enjoy our banter but Im not going to talk to somebody who can't have a discussion without attacking my character.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't call guys like Whitner, POZ, Lynch,Mckelvin hits unless your definition of hits are using high draft picks on would be average players. Guys like Kyle are hits in my book because they have played better than where they were drafted.

So they are what then? Because they aren't misses.

What would you term multi-year starters for multiple teams (except McKelvin)?