Mars Rover: 2.6 Billion

[DraftBoy]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/07/us/mar...html?hpt=hp_c1

CNN) -- Hey Mars! We're back! Hope you don't mind if we cruise around in our scientific SUV to grab some historic data and snap some breathtaking images. Oh, and we might do some Martian doughnuts in your front yard.

Now that the Mars rover Curiosity is safely parked, NASA's unmanned planet crawler appears ready to roll. A car salesman would have a ball selling this beauty. It's loaded with an array of sophisticated cameras, a "rocker bogie" suspension, a robotic arm, 2 gigs of flash memory, a rock-vaporizing laser (!!!!) and a plutonium-fueled power system. It operates by remote control from millions of miles away and has a blazing top speed of 1.5 inches per second.

Sticker price (including delivery): $2.6 billion.

I hate the idea of de-funding NASA and think we shoud pouring more money into the sciences and pushing our great thinkers to do more and give them more resources. However 2.6 Billion for a single rover that won't live more than two years that comes from an agency known as much for its catastrophic screw ups as it is for its achievements. We are a country that is close to a debt crisis, can we afford to be spending billioinds on a space odessy when we can't afford to pay our own bills at the moment?

[MikeInRoch]

It is designed to last for two years, but many of NASA's projects end up lasting much, much longer than they are designed for.

So where did that 2.6 Billion go? I have to think that it all produced jobs in one way or another.

[mysticsoto]

Considering we were spending up to $9 billion a month at one point in the Iraq war, I think if we end all wars, we'll have money for worthwhile causes such as this...

[DraftBoy]

It is designed to last for two years, but many of NASA's projects end up lasting much, much longer than they are designed for.

So where did that 2.6 Billion go? I have to think that it all produced jobs in one way or another.

Did it?

While Im far from being technologically savy, it was my understanding the fuel source can only go for 23 months unless their calculations/estimates are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Considering we were spending up to $9 billion a month at one point in the Iraq war, I think if we end all wars, we'll have money for worthwhile causes such as this...

Not relevant to the point.

So you think exploring Mars is a worthwhile cause? Why?

[mysticsoto]

Did it?

While Im far from being technologically savy, it was my understanding the fuel source can only go for 23 months unless their calculations/estimates are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -



Not relevant to the point.

So you think exploring Mars is a worthwhile cause? Why?

B'cse our future is in space. Right now, all it would take is a medium sized asteroid to wipe us all out. I view space as the Spanish might have viewed the world when Columbus showed them what was out there. It's the future. By now we should have a freaking base in space and maybe even in the moon. Eventually, colonizing other worlds. It's an inevitability.

As to the power source of the rover...dude, you're not even close. The mission is for 23 months (1 martian yr) - not the power source:

“The power source is capable for 14 years even though the mission isn't set to go that long,” he said. “It’s very robust.”

http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...0,622034.story

[DraftBoy]

B'cse our future is in space. Right now, all it would take is a medium sized asteroid to wipe us all out. I view space as the Spanish might have viewed the world when Columbus showed them what was out there. It's the future. By now we should have a freaking base in space and maybe even in the moon. Eventually, colonizing other worlds. It's an inevitability.

As to the power source of the rover...dude, you're not even close. The mission is for 23 months (1 martian yr) - not the power source:

I don't operate in a world of what ifs, so Im not really concerned about the potential of an asteroid. I don't disagree that space is the future, but is that future now? We have yet to even conquer alternative sources of energy back here, yet we are going to spend 2.6 Billion on a single rover that may or may not yield any kind of significant results?

Good to know about the power source, like I said that was my understanding.

Im not saying this is a waste of money, Im asking if it is. I think space in general has an infinite amount of things to teach us, my question though is investing into it at this time a wise investment? To answer my own question the answer is "depends on what it yields".

[gameboy]

The power source is plutonium, which is converted to electricity during decay. Pretty neat.

The 2.6 billion was over 10 years, so I guess that's about 260m per year, which is about 1/2 of what the gov wasted on Solyndra, yet this thing worked, and supported and advanced our engineering base.

In the grand scheme, NASA has been a fabulous success, and the benefits to mankind are numerous, immense, and cover all people of all nations and every socioeconomic condition.
As a guy who is greatly interested in energy issues, and realizing that battery capability is the weak link in a number of emerging technologies, I support any project that might lead to a breakthrough.
I was immensely interested in this landing, so much so that I considered starting a thread about it's complexity a few months ago. Great job, and really cool.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The power source is plutonium, which is converted to electricity during decay. Pretty neat.

The 2.6 billion was over 10 years, so I guess that's about 260m per year, which is about 1/2 of what the gov wasted on Solyndra, yet this thing worked, and supported and advanced our engineering base.

In the grand scheme, NASA has been a fabulous success, and the benefits to mankind are numerous, immense, and cover all people of all nations and every socioeconomic condition.
As a guy who is greatly interested in energy issues, and realizing that battery capability is the weak link in a number of emerging technologies, I support any project that might lead to a breakthrough.
I was immensely interested in this landing, so much so that I considered starting a thread about it's complexity a few months ago. Great job, and really cool.

Absolutely! It is within projects like these that we learn. It is the unexpected results that become the most valuable.

BTW: Here's a very simplistic view of the jobs created by the project. http://www.nationalreview.com/media-...greg-pollowitz

[DraftBoy]

Absolutely! It is within projects like these that we learn. It is the unexpected results that become the most valuable.

BTW: Here's a very simplistic view of the jobs created by the project. http://www.nationalreview.com/media-...greg-pollowitz

That is very helpful, thank you!

[gameboy]

I don't operate in a world of what ifs,

With full acknowledgment of the voluntary walk into a spin zone firing squad, I find this post particularly ironic.

You are Draftboy. You "rate" 21-23 year olds on their potential to compete in the NFL.

That entire endeavor is a world of "potential," and "what ifs."

You are the most what if guy on this board.

[DraftBoy]

With full acknowledgment of the voluntary walk into a spin zone firing squad, I find this post particularly ironic.

You are Draftboy. You "rate" 21-23 year olds on their potential to compete in the NFL.

That entire endeavor is a world of "potential," and "what ifs."

You are the most what if guy on this board.

Fair point though I would say I work in a world of what ifs, which is why I dont choose to operate in one. In other words taking the scouting side out of it, its my actual job to determine what ifs everyday 40+ hours a week. Can't stand the mentality, can't stand the structure. So by operate I mean live my life/make my own decisions. So for better or wose, and often for worse, I don't operate by what ifs. What if will happen whether I consider it or not.

Suffice it say that's a good point though.

[cookie G]

Did it?

While Im far from being technologically savy, it was my understanding the fuel source can only go for 23 months unless their calculations/estimates are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

The plutonium used has a half life of over 80 years. The Voyager spacecraft, using the same fuel source, are still transmitting despite being launched in 1977. (and Voyager 1 is just about leaving our solar system now).

The landing method employed, and some of the testing to be done, such as the atmospheric radiation measurements, is a prelude to a manned mission and is probably as important as to what they might discover. But that's still a long way off.

Personally, I'd prefer they concentrate on Enceladus now, rather than another mission to Mars. I'm sure many at NASA would like to drill a hole in Europa, but I don't think the technology is there.

[YardRat]

Considering we were spending up to $9 billion a month at one point in the Iraq war, I think if we end all wars, we'll have money for worthwhile causes such as this...

Not relevant to the point.

IMO it's very relative to the point. If we weren't wasting so much money elsewhere, something like this wouldn't begin to be looked at as a luxury.

[DraftBoy]

IMO it's very relative to the point. If we weren't wasting so much money elsewhere, something like this wouldn't begin to be looked at as a luxury.

Is it about it being a luxury or not? Playing the hindsight game is easy, if we didn't invade Iraq but that's over now and we weren't in the same financial situation as we are now.

The debt will be over 16 trillion in a couple of days;
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

According to costofwar.com the total cost of both the Iraq and Afghan wars is roughly 1.36 Trillion.

[mysticsoto]

So DB, are you saying we should do essentially nothing until the debt gets cleared? B'cse that essentially would translate to doing nothing ever...

- - - Updated - - -

With full acknowledgment of the voluntary walk into a spin zone firing squad, I find this post particularly ironic.

You are Draftboy. You "rate" 21-23 year olds on their potential to compete in the NFL.

That entire endeavor is a world of "potential," and "what ifs."

You are the most what if guy on this board.

LOL! That's a pretty funny post...

[DraftBoy]

So DB, are you saying we should do essentially nothing until the debt gets cleared? B'cse that essentially would translate to doing nothing ever...

- - - Updated - - -



LOL! That's a pretty funny post...

No, but when unemployment is in the double digits, everything you've done to date has basically failed, is it wise to spend 2.6 Billion on a project that could potentially wait till the economy has come around more?

In all honesty I dont have a stance on this issue. I see both sides, but I tend to lean more towards moving forward with the rover.

And yes GB's post was very good and funny.

[YardRat]

Is it about it being a luxury or not? Playing the hindsight game is easy, if we didn't invade Iraq but that's over now and we weren't in the same financial situation as we are now.

The debt will be over 16 trillion in a couple of days;
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

According to costofwar.com the total cost of both the Iraq and Afghan wars is roughly 1.36 Trillion.

Yes, when money is tight the definitions of 'luxury' and 'necessity' are altered. Just to clarify, my wasting money comment is not just relative to Iraq or Afghanistan.

[DraftBoy]

Yes, when money is tight the definitions of 'luxury' and 'necessity' are altered. Just to clarify, my wasting money comment is not just relative to Iraq or Afghanistan.

You say altered, all I did was expand the line of thinking to actually compass more things that could be considered.

[mysticsoto]

No, but when unemployment is in the double digits, everything you've done to date has basically failed, is it wise to spend 2.6 Billion on a project that could potentially wait till the economy has come around more?

In all honesty I dont have a stance on this issue. I see both sides, but I tend to lean more towards moving forward with the rover.

And yes GB's post was very good and funny.

Well, except that I don't think much has been done at all. Congress and the President can't come to an agreement in jobs bills and rather than compromise, nothing gets done - that's different from "everything you've done to date has basically failed" - they've done nothing. You have to do something for it to fail...

[DraftBoy]

Well, except that I don't think much has been done at all. Congress and the President can't come to an agreement in jobs bills and rather than compromise, nothing gets done - that's different from "everything you've done to date has basically failed" - they've done nothing. You have to do something for it to fail...

Agreed. Both sides have failed to move towards an appropriate compromise on economic issues and continue to play politics with peoples jobs and lives.