Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

[YardRat]

From the Wanny DC thread...

Well then, how does a run of the mill fan really know anything? Are they in the team meetings trying to teach the 46 or the Tampa 2? Are they able to see the progression of a player, when he should be ****canned or when he should be kept?

Fans go on results. When they can't see success on the field, they complain. Why? Because they don't get their warm fuzzy on Sunday if their team loses.

This guy or that guy fcked up and the fan didn't get what he paid for. Boo ****ing hoo.

Losers and winners are judged by people that never had the balls to put on a jockstrap.

I weep for them, they don't even have a remote notion what it takes to get to that level.

Do we have any ability to accurately observe, assess and report any kind of judgement on who is a good player and who isn't? If a coach is doing a good job or not? Who we should draft? Who we should be playing in the line-up? How we should be playing (style/scheme, etc)?

Or...do we not have a clue and should we just take for granted that only the individuals directly involved in the game know what they are doing, because after all they are the ones holding the titles and collecting paychecks?

[coastal]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Of course some of us do...

Moonie hasn't killed anything recently so he's a little cantankerous.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Yes, you can pretty much tell who is garbage and who isn't 90% of the time. Also, results speak for themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

"Moonie" doesn't believe his convictions, either...as I exposed in the other thread.

He's weak like that.

[Raptor]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Yes they can

and as for this

Losers and winners are judged by people that never had the balls to put on a jockstrap.

I weep for them, they don't even have a remote notion what it takes to get to that level.

This is always the chest thump of the clueless on this topic. There is a BIG difference between being talented at sports and being able to identify talent. Notice the vast majority best GM's and coaches in the league are guys who never played the sport or never played it at a high level

[OpIv37]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Performance dictates competence, not title. Just because someone has a clipboard and their name on some NFL team's org chart doesn't mean they know what they're doing. Need a few examples? Just look at pretty much every coach, coordinator and FO personnel the Bills have had in the past decade.

Then go back and read the posts on this forum. Of course, not every fan is right every time, and some have much better track records than others, but there have been countless times when the fans on this board have been right where the so-called "professionals" turned out to be wrong. A few key examples that jump right out at me: Maybin over Orakpo and Jauron being a bad hire from day 1.

[Raptor]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Performance dictates competence, not title. Just because someone has a clipboard and their name on some NFL team's org chart doesn't mean they know what they're doing. Need a few examples? Just look at pretty much every coach, coordinator and FO personnel the Bills have had in the past decade.

Then go back and read the posts on this forum. Of course, not every fan is right every time, and some have much better track records than others, but there have been countless times when the fans on this board have been right where the so-called "professionals" turned out to be wrong. A few key examples that jump right out at me: Maybin over Orakpo and Jauron being a bad hire from day 1.

Another example, Jeremy Green

Green at one point was in the front office for the Browns and a scout for nearly a decade, he was eventually fired. Then went to ESPN as an analyst and eventually fired from there after he was arrested for Child porn

He got his job for no other reason then he was Dennis Greens son. For those of you who remember him you know he was one of the worst analyst of football that there has ever been. Seriously no one was wrong more than Green on everything football. So this whole notion of "well he works for an NFL team, so he automatically knows more" is complete and utter nonsense

[Meathead]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

other fans, no

me, yes

[DraftBoy]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Depends really...with the explosion of the internet and digital media fans have more access than ever before to practices and games. You have countless dedicated draft sites and exponentially more recruiting sites. You know about kids who are going to be drafted 6-7 years before they are even eligible.

Not to mention that yet to be seen melding of how players will be tested.

As for schematic knowledge, its very difficult to know what you're looking at without either having done the homework or played the game. Its just so complicated on the pro level that its hard for most fans to understand. Now there are certainly a select few who do and the access to the new All-22 film will give even more fans the ability to understand and break down the game.

For most though it will remain simply a grasstop level of enjoyment as opposed to wanting to dig down into the grassroots and there are certainly times that I not only respect but envy that mentality.

[pmoon6]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Yes, you can pretty much tell who is garbage and who isn't 90% of the time. Also, results speak for themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

"Moonie" doesn't believe his convictions, either...as I exposed in the other thread.

He's weak like that.

Weak are the crybaby ***** fans that say we will suck before we play one single game.

They really are not fans at all. They are Anti-Fans.

As far as exposing anything, you must be thinking of Friday when you were standing outside a preschool.

[OpIv37]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Weak are the crybaby ***** fans that say we will suck before we play one single game.

They really are not fans at all. They are Anti-Fans.

As far as exposing anything, you must be thinking of Friday when you were standing outside a preschool.

Please explain to me how looking at a team objectively and determining that they aren't very good makes someone any less of a fan.

Being a fan means you WANT the team to win. It doesn't mean you actually think they will win every single game.

This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off. The reality is that you can't mentally handle the fact that the Bills may not be very good, so instead you are trying to discredit the people who are saying so by insulting their fandom. It's immature and unrealistic.

[pmoon6]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Please explain to me how looking at a team objectively and determining that they aren't very good makes someone any less of a fan.

Being a fan means you WANT the team to win. It doesn't mean you actually think they will win every single game.

This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off. The reality is that you can't mentally handle the fact that the Bills may not be very good, so instead you are trying to discredit the people who are saying so by insulting their fandom. It's immature and unrealistic.

Alrighty then, let's just all hold hands and chant that the team will not be very good. No need to spend the $200 on Sunday Ticket, there is no reason for optimism.

May I suggest reading "The Power Of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale?

I can "mentally handle" almost anything. Getting shot at, taking care of a gravely ill loved one, and even death. So get pissed off all you want, I fart in your general direction.

[OpIv37]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

A true fan spends $200 on Sunday Ticket even when there is no reason for optimism, because that's what makes them a fan.

[pmoon6]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

A true fan spends $200 on Sunday Ticket even when there is no reason for optimism, because that's what makes them a fan.

Good to know. I've had it for 13 years. Before that I went to a Houston sports bar every Sunday for 11. It was tough living out of town before that so I missed the Knox/Stephenson/Bullough years except what I read in the papers It was great when I still lived there, going to 2 or three games a year and actually seeing us win back to back AFL Championships on the TV.

Are you impressed yet?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Fans are idiots.

There is no reason for optimism for this team. It's the only team yet to make the playoffs ONCE this millennium. Its offense is mediocre, the O-line makes Demetrius Bell look disciplined in comparison, its defense is led by a bunch of guys who spend more time on injured reserve than they do on the field (and that includes our nine-figure prized free agent acquisition), the linebackers flat-out suck, the cornerbacks are too young to compete, its special teamers are too old, and it plays in a stadium that not only prevents them from performing at its highest level with its exposure to the weather, but can't draw enough paying fans to compete. They can't get a decent quarterback, and they won't develop their own from scratch. What's their strong point? Running back? Running backs are a dime a dozen and as Corey Dillon knows, even bad teams can have good running backs if the rest of the team stinks.

Tell me, oh great fan, where is the room for optimism? Tell me why Erie County should even consider renewing the lease on that stadium, much less invest $200 million into renovating it without even making any sort of improvements that it really needs, with as much dysfunction is it has? This isn't a real NFL team. NFL teams make the playoffs once in a while. Heck, this team would struggle in the UFL.

[pmoon6]

Re: Are fans at all capable of judging talent and ability?

Fans are idiots.

There is no reason for optimism for this team. It's the only team yet to make the playoffs ONCE this millennium. Its offense is mediocre, the O-line makes Demetrius Bell look disciplined in comparison, its defense is led by a bunch of guys who spend more time on injured reserve than they do on the field (and that includes our nine-figure prized free agent acquisition), the linebackers flat-out suck, the cornerbacks are too young to compete, its special teamers are too old, and it plays in a stadium that not only prevents them from performing at its highest level with its exposure to the weather, but can't draw enough paying fans to compete. They can't get a decent quarterback, and they won't develop their own from scratch. What's their strong point? Running back? Running backs are a dime a dozen and as Corey Dillon knows, even bad teams can have good running backs if the rest of the team stinks.

Tell me, oh great fan, where is the room for optimism? Tell me why Erie County should even consider renewing the lease on that stadium, much less invest $200 million into renovating it without even making any sort of improvements that it really needs, with as much dysfunction is it has? This isn't a real NFL team. NFL teams make the playoffs once in a while. Heck, this team would struggle in the UFL.

I can give you a suicide assist if you like.