Mario Williams is "Fools Gold"

[YardRat]

You're missing the point... which is suprising to me because you're one of the smarter posters out here IMO.

first and only question and to address your statement about Mario being brought in for sacks and please answer this as honestly as you can (putting aside all of the BS in this thread)... was it wise for a franchise without an NFL playoffs starting caliber QB to make a guy like Mario, who had to that point in his career promising but inconsistent production, the highest paid player in the history of the franchise and the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game... to as you put it.... get sacks?

My answer to that is no and throughout this whole thread I've provided snipets as to why.

honestly I can't figure out why this is a hard concept to get.

It's a false concept that, if anything, was proven wrong once again by Denver this season. NFL teams can win championships with less than stellar QBing if they have a dominant defense. Anybody that doesn't acknowledge that Manning was a thin shell of his former self, basically a non-factor in the playoffs and Super Bowl, and Osweiler was middling just isn't paying attention. Buffalo actually was going about the building process the right way this time, until they fubared everything with the Wrecks hire last off season.

They built a dominant defense, and that started with Mario.

People should be frustrated with the lack of playoffs. People should be frustrated with hiring Wrecks. People should understand that Buffalo very could well have been Denver this season, with the established state of the defense and especially considering the 'upgrades' on offense made last off season. People shouldn't be pissed that the team threw a boatload of money at a possible future HOFer that actually (mostly) delivered what was expected, they should be pissed that they had actually gotten to the point where something was built...something was ready for success...and they flushed everything down the drain by hiring a buffoon to run the show from the sidelines.

If my choices are paying Mario or paying Wrecks, I'm ponying up for Williams. Every. Damn, Time.

[coastal]

I think you are creating a false choice. Improving the defense does not mean we lose the chance to find a franchise QB. What franchise QB did signing Mario cost us? The one you keep bringing up is Manning, but we were never a possibility for him.

Again you're still missing the point.

Try this... forget Mario Williams even exists and go back to the Drew Bledsoe trade.

what team won that trade?

[feldspar]

Again you're still missing the point.

Try this... forget Mario Williams even exists and go back to the Drew Bledsoe trade.

what team won that trade?

Maybe at post 3,000, after your wife climbs offs your dick, those people will finally get the point.

To you, I make this solemn promise.

[YardRat]

Again you're still missing the point.

Try this... forget Mario Williams even exists and go back to the Drew Bledsoe trade.

what team won that trade?

What team won the Hughes/Sheppard trade?
What team won the McCoy/Alonso trade?
If Cleveland offered the Bills Cameron Erving, Ibreheim Campbell, and Justin Gilbert for Sammy Watkins would you take it?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Again you're still missing the point

I understand your point. It's not a complicated argument. I disagree with its premises and your conclusion.

what team won that trade?

The Pats did. How is this relevant to the current thread?

[mysticsoto]

It's a false concept that, if anything, was proven wrong once again by Denver this season. NFL teams can win championships with less than stellar QBing if they have a dominant defense. Anybody that doesn't acknowledge that Manning was a thin shell of his former self, basically a non-factor in the playoffs and Super Bowl, and Osweiler was middling just isn't paying attention. Buffalo actually was going about the building process the right way this time, until they fubared everything with the Wrecks hire last off season.

They built a dominant defense, and that started with Mario.

People should be frustrated with the lack of playoffs. People should be frustrated with hiring Wrecks. People should understand that Buffalo very could well have been Denver this season, with the established state of the defense and especially considering the 'upgrades' on offense made last off season. People shouldn't be pissed that the team threw a boatload of money at a possible future HOFer that actually (mostly) delivered what was expected, they should be pissed that they had actually gotten to the point where something was built...something was ready for success...and they flushed everything down the drain by hiring a buffoon to run the show from the sidelines.

If my choices are paying Mario or paying Wrecks, I'm ponying up for Williams. Every. Damn, Time.

I sort of agree in that I don't like that we've essentially dismantled what was a very strong defense - for no reason other than the coach wants to implement a different scheme. I'm usually against those types of moves. I believe schemes should reflect personnel and not the other way around which is what Rex is doing. Normally I prefer a 3-4, but we didn't have the personnel for it and more importantly, we had a very strong 4-3...why change it?

I'm just hoping that Rex can quickly get a 3-4 alignment running smoothly and well. But I have a nagging underlying belief that he won't and Buffalo will continue the playoff drought. I hope I'm wrong...

On a sidenote, I've been critical of Whaley, but he's been having a good offseason!

[Pinkerton Security]

Can we delete this thread for all of time so I never have to see it pop up again?

[coastal]

How is this relevant to the current thread?

we will get there.

first... what did it say that NE would be willing to trade their "franchise quarterback" to a division rival?

[coastal]

What team won the Hughes/Sheppard trade?
What team won the McCoy/Alonso trade?
If Cleveland offered the Bills Cameron Erving, Ibreheim Campbell, and Justin Gilbert for Sammy Watkins would you take it?

Clearly, intelligence isn't a requirement for the COTRM's Sargent at Arms position.

- - - Updated - - -

Can we delete this thread for all of time so I never have to see it pop up again?

Please leave my thread D-list poster.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

we will get there.

first... what did it say that NE would be willing to trade their "franchise quarterback" to a division rival?

It said that he wasn't their franchise quarterback any more, because the backup had just won a Super Bowl.

[coastal]

It said that he wasn't their franchise quarterback any more.

true.

it also said that they felt comfortable in making the decision to trade him to a division rival... a team they would face twice a year and could possibly keep them from achieving their goals moving forward.

would that be an accurate statement?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

true.

it also said that they felt comfortable in making the decision to trade him to a division rival... a team they would face twice a year and could possibly keep them from achieving their goals moving forward.

would that be an accurate statement?

Yes

[coastal]

Yes

wouldn't it stand to reason then that the decision makers at OBD should have been asking themselves... is there a reason the team this franchise quarterback just played with is willing to let him go to a division rival?

you know... like its a red flag?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

wouldn't it stand to reason then that the decision makers at OBD should have been asking themselves... is there a reason the team this franchise quarterback just played with is willing to let him go to a division rival?

you know... like its a red flag?

I'm sure they asked themselves that exact question. And biggest reasons were apparent to all: He had one of, if not the largest contract in the league at the time and the backup on a rookie deal was the reigning Super Bowl MVP. I don't remember what Bledsoe's trade market was at the time either, it's possible that we were the best offer because of that contract situation.

[coastal]

I'm sure they asked themselves that exact question. And biggest reasons were apparent to all: He had one of, if not the largest contract in the league at the time and the backup on a rookie deal was the reigning Super Bowl MVP. I don't remember what Bledsoe's trade market was at the time either, it's possible that we were the best offer because of that contract situation.

and now in retrospect that was admittedly not a good trade for the Bills.

Bledsoe turned out to be a turnover machine and had serious in-correctable flaws in his game.

The red flags were certainly there, but they were either ignored or rationalized and butts in seats happened as a result!

Turning back to Mario and post #1 in this thread...

Tackles
2007 - 59
2008 - 53
2009 - 43
2010 - 28
2011 - 11


Sacks
2007 - 14
2008 - 12
2009 - 9
2010 - 8.5
2011 - 5

Those are diminishing return stats... injuries or not. And Houston who drafted this guy 1st overall... let him go into free agency without a fight... for nothing...

and yet the decision makers at OBD were so steadfast in their decision making that they felt making Mario the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game and the highest paid player in the history of the franchise was a solid football decision.

[coastal]

and just to add some fun to this thread... lol.

Mario_Williams.jpg

[BertSquirtgum]

( o )( o )

[IlluminatusUIUC]

and now in retrospect that was admittedly not a good trade for the Bills.

Bledsoe turned out to be a turnover machine and had serious in-correctable flaws in his game.

Bledsoe's turnover rates were right in line with his career averages, and not out of place for a QB in the early 2000s. It was his sack rates that were a problem, and they thought they could improve that by drafting Mike Williams.

Oops.

Turning back to Mario and post #1 in this thread...
...
Those are diminishing return stats... injuries or not. And Houston who drafted this guy 1st overall... let him go into free agency without a fight... for nothing...

and yet the decision makers at OBD were so steadfast in their decision making that they felt making Mario the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game and the highest paid player in the history of the franchise was a solid football decision.

Except, despite the "diminishing returns" stats, he went right back to his double-digit sack totals and stayed there through three DCs and three new schemes. By year four (and his fourth DC, and his fourth scheme) he said "**** it" and took the year off. That i terrible of course, but it doesn't invalidate the three years he gave us.

[sukie]

and now in retrospect that was admittedly not a good trade for the Bills.

Bledsoe turned out to be a turnover machine and had serious in-correctable flaws in his game.

The red flags were certainly there, but they were either ignored or rationalized and butts in seats happened as a result!

Turning back to Mario and post #1 in this thread...

Tackles
2007 - 59
2008 - 53
2009 - 43
2010 - 28
2011 - 11


Sacks
2007 - 14
2008 - 12
2009 - 9
2010 - 8.5
2011 - 5

Those are diminishing return stats... injuries or not. And Houston who drafted this guy 1st overall... let him go into free agency without a fight... for nothing...

and yet the decision makers at OBD were so steadfast in their decision making that they felt making Mario the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game and the highest paid player in the history of the franchise was a solid football decision.

Yeah I see what you are saying for his time in Houston and the silliness of the cash thrown at him but his "return" wasn't diminishing in Buffalo the first three years. 10.5 13. 14.5 sacks and tackles 37, 28, 36 the scheme hurt and his attitude towards it also hurt last year. Definitely not worth paying him anymore at his age. Miami is the fool even at 8 mil... He isn't replacing Vernon and Wake is not gonna be the same after the achilles. Miami's pass rush got weaker than the start of last season.

[Historian]

Okay, take this with a huge grain of salt but....

My dentist takes care of some of the Bills staff that live in the area.

They believe that the Bills defense is ready to rock and roll this year, thanks to cutting Mario.

He was described as uncooperative with the coaches, sometimes bordering on petulant, as if to say, "How dare you ask a veteran like me to do that?"

Again, take it for what it's worth, but the subtext is clear, that the Bills wanted to unload he and his salary.