Page 9 of 28 FirstFirst ... 567891011121319 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 558

Thread: 9/11 - What convinced you?

  1. #161
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    11,483
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 337 Times in 204 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    40
    ZoneBux
    20,765.25
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    20,765.25
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Really? How do YOU know that?
    What I know is that you are crazy.

  2. #162
    Registered User MST3KBillsfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,730
    Thanks
    6,106
    Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    19
    ZoneBux
    110,197.01
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    110,197.01
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Why are you dancing? You know very well what I'm talking about.
    Who exactly is dancing? I answered your question, you answer mine. Quid pro quo Shiva, quid pro quo. Why would Stalin need a false flag op, and why would Bush?

  3. #163
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by JATMtheJATM View Post
    i dont agree with that at all. if someone here really did lose friends in this event, i think its best to let that one go. shiva lacks empathy and this is just another case. when it comes to asking someone to prove their friends died, i think its best to let that one go.
    Shiva lacks empathy because I'm making the board neo-con upset?

    His "feelings" trump all objective inquiries?



    Sorry dude, but you're commenting about something you don't know the backstory to.

    GB had his "feelings hurt" 10 years ago when we first started talking about it.

    Since then, he has supported policies resulting from 9/11 that have resulted in the untimely deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

    However, none of them were his friends, so he doesn't give a **** about them.
    boisterous hubris, arrogance, self deception, conspiracy, mud slinging mixed with a heavy dose of self righteousness.

  4. #164
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by gameboy View Post
    What I know is that you are crazy.
    Boy, there's some critical thinking for you.

  5. #165
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby View Post
    Who exactly is dancing? I answered your question...
    No, you haven't and your reluctance is noted.

  6. #166
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    This is the sort of dishonest drivel I've come to expect of you. In any post, did I say that my list from the first page was a complete answer? No...
    Yes, actually...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    This thread is expressly for me to ask YOU questions. If you can do that sincerely, I'll answer yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    It was and I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    This is the sort of clarity that should have been in the initial question.
    It was clear and I made it clearer, but you still refuse to answer. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Neil Bush may indeed be a nobody, but he would still have to be just as morally bankrupt as the rest of the conspirators to go along with their scheme. Indeed, if you're sticking behind the whole 'Neil Bush allowed demolition crews to pre-wire the towers' theory then he's an integral part of the plan.
    Who said 'Neil Bush allowed demolition crews to pre-wire the towers or Neil Bush was an integral part of the plan? Not me. And yes, Fredo was as morally bankrupt as the rest. He just wasn't as competent. you sure you don't mean Marvin Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Of course it does. You've claimed a conspiracy that stretches back three decades based on little more than "Cui bono?" and challenge the official story by playing games about what constitutes "tracking" an aircraft, among others.
    Not true. I have challenged the official story in many ways that still stand irrefuted, like Gordon Ross' analysis of the WTC collapse, the human remains around the collapsed buildings and Osama Bin Laden's statement that Flt 93 was shot down to name 3. However, that still doesn't render Cui Bono, ie. motive, inconsequential. If you have two suspects and one has an undeniable motive of power and money and the other is accused by the first suspect of having an ideological religious agenda as a motive, well, I'd have to say the whole of human history says the first motive is far more likely than the second.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Gameboy says he lost a colleague on Flight 77 and you want DNA evidence? Do you have any direct evidence of the things you say?
    Yes. I didn't know gameboy's colleague and we, and presumably he, have only been TOLD what it is. So, I want to know how he can assure us his colleague dies in that crash. Crazy as it seems, the possibility of lying exists. And please, do we really need to go the direct vs indirect evidence route again? As an attorney, I'm sure you've heard of circumstantial evidence and it's validity if applied correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    I think that's been clearly shown in this very thread. I admit that America has a lot of blood on its hands in the middle east, and many of the terrorists indeed have a legitimate grievance with us. You come back with the claim that Americans are racist dumbasses. Whose bias is showing again?
    Concluding that America has a lot of blood on it's hands because Americans are racist dumbasses is an entirely objective analysis.

    If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.

  7. #167
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    A hole in your wall.
    Posts
    40,422
    Thanks
    3,388
    Thanked 3,018 Times in 1,725 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    124
    ZoneBux
    146,305.26
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    146,305.26
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    His "feelings" trump all objective inquiries?

    Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be.

  8. #168
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    9 out of ten Bills fans are willing to be stupid for their team.

  9. #169
    Registered User IlluminatusUIUC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    The American Riviera, CA
    Posts
    4,463
    Thanks
    1,845
    Thanked 2,812 Times in 1,588 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    10
    ZoneBux
    152,250.82
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    152,250.82
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Yes, actually...
    Again with the manipulative editing.

    You quoted:
    It was and I did.


    But the post says:
    It was and I did. You asked what facts led me to believe the Al Qaeda theory of 9/11, so I picked out one part of the story and gave you some of them.


    Again, you edit my post to try to change my meaning. Cheap and transparent.

    It was clear and I made it clearer, but you still refuse to answer. Why?
    Because it was, and remains, an abstract question to which you demand a concrete answer. With regards to the named six BushCo members, I gave my answer.

    Who said 'Neil Bush allowed demolition crews to pre-wire the towers or Neil Bush was an integral part of the plan? Not me. And yes, Fredo was as morally bankrupt as the rest. He just wasn't as competent. you sure you don't mean Marvin Bush?
    I do mean Marvin, I apologize. What a big, screwed up family. That said, you have been pushing the pre-wiring claim at least as long as we've been discussing it (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthre...The-WTC-Towers) and then claiming they were struck by remote-controlled planes (Post 6 in that thread).

    Now you're disclaiming it. Again.

    Yes. I didn't know gameboy's colleague and we, and presumably he, have only been TOLD what it is. So, I want to know how he can assure us his colleague dies in that crash. Crazy as it seems, the possibility of lying exists.
    Have you ever eaten at Randy's Donuts? It's in Inglewood, California on Manchester. Their food is delicious and the large donut on the roof is an iconic image of L.A. There have been reviews of it in the L.A. Times, it's appeared in several movies, it's easily visible on Google Earth, and parodies of it have appeared everywhere from the Simpsons to Grand Theft Auto.

    If you haven't eaten there, how do you KNOW it exists? I mean, movies can be faked, articles can be planted, and the people who have eaten there could all be lying (including me! *gasp*). Have you just been told?

    At some point, everybody must rely on other people's accounts to verify information. I cannot personally verify every fact with my own eyes and experiments, and neither can you. To discount gameboy's explanation even after he posted a link, just because he didn't pull Mr. Burlingame's DNA out of the wreck with his own two hands is ridiculous. And then you counter with:

    Not true. I have challenged the official story in many ways that still stand irrefuted, like Gordon Ross' analysis of the WTC collapse, the human remains around the collapsed buildings and Osama Bin Laden's statement that Flt 93 was shot down to name 3.
    How do you KNOW human remains were found around the collapsed buildings? Did you verify they were human remains yourself? Did you verify their position yourself? How do you KNOW Osama claimed Flight 93 was shot down? Did you watch the video? Do you speak his Arabic dialect or did you rely on someone else's translation?

    You demand that other people personally verify things to consider them facts but make no such demands on your own sources.

    However, that still doesn't render Cui Bono, ie. motive, inconsequential. If you have two suspects and one has an undeniable motive of power and money and the other is accused by the first suspect of having an ideological religious agenda as a motive, well, I'd have to say the whole of human history says the first motive is far more likely than the second.
    I can invent motives for any number of people or nations. Every repressive regime in the world benefited because they could use the pre-text of terrorism to crack down on their own citizens. Every defense contractor benefited by trying to drink from the firehose of money that opened. Nearly any ex-soldier and cop could re-invent themselves as a terrorism "expert" and chase speaking fees and second careers. Some dickhead made a fortune selling Osama urinal cakes and miniature plastic flags. None of that is proof that they caused it, just that they are ruthless profiteers.

    Concluding that America has a lot of blood on it's hands because Americans are racist dumbasses is an entirely objective analysis.

    If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.
    Explanation of what, specifically?
    Billszone 2013 Prediction Contest winner!

  10. Post thanked by:

    jdaltroy5 (11-05-2012)

  11. #170
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    A hole in your wall.
    Posts
    40,422
    Thanks
    3,388
    Thanked 3,018 Times in 1,725 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    124
    ZoneBux
    146,305.26
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    146,305.26
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    9 out of ten Bills fans are willing to be stupid for their team.
    9 of ten 9/11 conspiracy theory whackjobs are willing to be stupid for...well,....just for the sake of being stupid, I guess.

  12. Post thanked by:

    MST3KBillsfan (11-04-2012)

  13. #171
    LETS GO BLUE!
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,597
    Thanks
    2,133
    Thanked 2,506 Times in 1,809 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    20
    ZoneBux
    53,573.95
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    53,573.95
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    ive noticed every shiva thread becomes less and less about the topic at hand, and more and more about how people argue and debate.

  14. Post thanked by:

    MST3KBillsfan (11-04-2012)

  15. #172
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    9 of ten 9/11 conspiracy theory whackjobs are willing to be stupid for...well,....just for the sake of being stupid, I guess.
    I have empirical evidence of my assertion. You have only poop from your ass as evidence of yours.

  16. #173
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by JATMtheJATM View Post
    ive noticed every shiva thread becomes less and less about the topic at hand, and more and more about how people argue and debate.
    Cuz some people who recognize that they are pushing losing arguments resort to cheating, ie. sophistry and fallacious logic.

    Like 0-linemen who keep getting beat, they resort to holding as a last resort.

  17. #174
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    A hole in your wall.
    Posts
    40,422
    Thanks
    3,388
    Thanked 3,018 Times in 1,725 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    124
    ZoneBux
    146,305.26
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    146,305.26
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    I have empirical evidence of my assertion. You have only poop from your ass as evidence of yours.
    I have scores of threads as empirical evidence. You have only assumptions, mis-representations, mis-perceptions and mis-direction, which over the years grade out well below the poop from my ass.

  18. Post thanked by:

    MST3KBillsfan (11-04-2012)

  19. #175
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Again with the manipulative editing.

    You quoted:


    But the post says:


    Again, you edit my post to try to change my meaning. Cheap and transparent.
    I said I would answer your questions when you'd answered mine. You claimed you did. Now you're claiming your next sentence says you didn't? Aside from the fact it does not, do you make a habit of claiming you did things when in actuality, you did not?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Because it was, and remains, an abstract question to which you demand a concrete answer. With regards to the named six BushCo members, I gave my answer.
    It's not an "abstract question" nor is it demanding a "concrete answer". It's a legitimate question about your understanding of human behavior and assessment of character. Here's another name. Eric Prince. Think he's capable?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    I do mean Marvin, I apologize. What a big, screwed up family. That said, you have been pushing the pre-wiring claim at least as long as we've been discussing it (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthre...The-WTC-Towers) and then claiming they were struck by remote-controlled planes (Post 6 in that thread).

    Now you're disclaiming it. Again.
    I did not claim they were struck by remote-controlled planes in post 6 in that thread (post the text if you wish) and I have never "pushed" the pre-wiring claim, I have only questioned the truth of the claim they couldn't have been pre-wired.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Have you ever eaten at Randy's Donuts? It's in Inglewood, California on Manchester. Their food is delicious and the large donut on the roof is an iconic image of L.A. There have been reviews of it in the L.A. Times, it's appeared in several movies, it's easily visible on Google Earth, and parodies of it have appeared everywhere from the Simpsons to Grand Theft Auto.

    If you haven't eaten there, how do you KNOW it exists? I mean, movies can be faked, articles can be planted, and the people who have eaten there could all be lying (including me! *gasp*). Have you just been told?
    This is silly anti-induction sophistry that tries to equate something with a high probablity of being true with something with a low probability of being true. Most of what we know and most of the decisions we're required to make every day rely on what we've been told. However, not everything we have been told is true. That is what our brain is for. To use reason and logic to make judgments about whether the things we've been told are true or not. If you're still shaky on the concepts, the wikipedia pages on inductive logic and circumstantial evidence are good places to start.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    At some point, everybody must rely on other people's accounts to verify information. I cannot personally verify every fact with my own eyes and experiments, and neither can you.
    Needless to say, however this doesn't mean we are required to believe everything we've been told. I'm sure you understand that.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    To discount gameboy's explanation even after he posted a link, just because he didn't pull Mr. Burlingame's DNA out of the wreck with his own two hands is ridiculous.
    I didn't "discount his explanation", because he never gave one. An explanation was what I was, and still am, asking for. It's a reasonable request that I don't think will cause GB any undue emotional turmoil.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    How do you KNOW human remains were found around the collapsed buildings? Did you verify they were human remains yourself? Did you verify their position yourself? How do you KNOW Osama claimed Flight 93 was shot down? Did you watch the video? Do you speak his Arabic dialect or did you rely on someone else's translation?
    The human remains have been reported by different independent sources. And the US gov't itself claimed Osama's statement was true. In my estimation, both have a high probability of being true.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    You demand that other people personally verify things to consider them facts but make no such demands on your own sources.
    Baseless assertion. And untrue, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    I can invent motives for any number of people or nations. Every repressive regime in the world benefited because they could use the pre-text of terrorism to crack down on their own citizens. Every defense contractor benefited by trying to drink from the firehose of money that opened. Nearly any ex-soldier and cop could re-invent themselves as a terrorism "expert" and chase speaking fees and second careers. Some dickhead made a fortune selling Osama urinal cakes and miniature plastic flags. None of that is proof that they caused it, just that they are ruthless profiteers.
    So, that brings us back to my original question.

    Do you think that all ruthless profiteers, and especially those ruthless profiteers whose fortunes depend on death and destruction, would shrink from a little engineered carnage to pump up the bottom line and make the world safe for free-market capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    Explanation of what, specifically?
    Why America has wound up with so much blood on it's hands and why, if it does, do you find it so unbelievable there is 9/11 blood on it's hands too?

  20. #176
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    I have scores of threads as empirical evidence.
    No you don't.

    But then, who cares if it's true or not? The accusation is enough, right?

  21. #177
    LETS GO BLUE!
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,597
    Thanks
    2,133
    Thanked 2,506 Times in 1,809 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    20
    ZoneBux
    53,573.95
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    53,573.95
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Cuz some people who recognize that they are pushing losing arguments resort to cheating, ie. sophistry and fallacious logic.

    Like 0-linemen who keep getting beat, they resort to holding as a last resort.
    never said you are wrong.

  22. #178
    Registered User MST3KBillsfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,730
    Thanks
    6,106
    Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    19
    ZoneBux
    110,197.01
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    110,197.01
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    No, you haven't and your reluctance is noted.
    Oh boy oh boy, does this mean you tabbed this thread so that you can claim some sort of moral victory five or ten years from now? Well ****, I feel honored.

  23. #179
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by JATMtheJATM View Post
    never said you are wrong.
    I know.

    I wasn't referring to you, just describing the phenomenon.

  24. #180
    Hey man, wanna breed? Spartacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    11,900
    Thanks
    1,933
    Thanked 2,815 Times in 1,810 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    36
    ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Bank
    0.00
    Total ZoneBux
    117,537.66
    Donate

    Re: 9/11 - What convinced you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby View Post
    Oh boy oh boy, does this mean you tabbed this thread so that you can claim some sort of moral victory five or ten years from now? Well ****, I feel honored.
    Did the Russians shell their own town and blame it on the Finns or not?

    Are you a historian or an apparatchik?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •