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Thread: Gators and Trojans lost...

  1. #41
    Registered User DraftBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    Walt Patulski, Tony Hunter, Jeff Burris...yeah, I hate ND and it's not unwarranted.
    If you hate a team because your other team can't scout properly then maybe you need to re-evaluate your position. Sam Young is a former Irish player.
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  2. #42
    Registered User cookie G's Avatar
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
    You're all over the place with this argument. Are you going by a team's ranking when they played or where they finished? Because Arkansas beat Auburn and TAMU when they were ranked, but by the time the end of the season rolled around, both of those teams were in the "Also receiving votes" box. The only ranked teams Arky beat that stayed ranked were KState and South Carolina.

    So you're counting #15 Auburn as a Top 20 win even though they didn't finish there, but slamming #10 Michigan State because they didn't either?

    And Oklahoma State was better than Arkansas last year. Come on now. If you're going to start claiming that SEC teams now deserve a full 1.5 game lead on non-SEC teams then it's getting silly.
    Oklahoma St. lost whatever it claimed it had last year by losing to Iowa St.

    but fine. Kansas St. played both last year. When they played OSU, they put up 500 yards and scored 50 points, losing on the last play of the game at the OSU 2 yard line.

    When Arkansas played K-State, they held Klein to 40 yards rushing, half the total yardage and 16 points. In the bowl game, it was pretty clear that Ark was the better team.

    Should you consider a teams schedule, look at who they played, rather than just their won-loss record? Yep. Sorry.

    Should you consider who an SEC played? And what their SEC schedule was when judging how good they are? Yep again.

    Sorry.

    6 straight NC wins, by 4 different SEC teams, against the best of 3 different "power" conferences.

    THE Ohio St. U was embarrassed twice ...by 2 different SEC teams.
    Oklahoma made it a bit of a game against Florida.
    Texas was able to stay with Bama for a quarter.
    Oregon at least stayed with Auburn for 3 quarters.

    In the Florida OSU game, people questioned while Florida should be there. I mean, they got beat by Auburn. BY the end of the NC game, it was clear that the over-hyped OSU had no business on the same field.

    I'm sorry, where's the conference parity? where are the challengers to the conference.

    You guys want someone to challenge the SEC, that's fine. But promoting these Great White Hopes isn't going to do it.

    It reminds me a little of the Heavyweight boxing division in the 70's.

    Ali
    Frazier
    Foreman
    Norton

    Norton fought Ali 3 times, winning the first, losing 2 close fights.
    Got pummeled by Foreman, as did everyone but Ali.
    Beat everyone else.

    Fought the best, (except Frazier), had 3 losses.

    Along come Duane Bobick. The latest Great White Hope. 38-0. Awesome. Undefeated. Actually beat a very young Larry Holmes.

    People actually thought Bobick was going to beat Norton. He was undefeated, Norton had losses to Ali and Foreman.

    It took Norton 2 minute to destroy him.

    Does the level of competition make a difference?

    um..yeah, it does. And I can't believe I'm having to explain that.

    Does beating upper tier SEC teams mean more than beating upper tier Big 10 teams?

    Yes, it does. And I can't believe I'm having to explain THAT, too.

    The last decade of college football means a lot more to me than someone saying, "oh, that's just crazy".

  3. #43
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by cookie G View Post
    Oklahoma St. lost whatever it claimed it had last year by losing to Iowa St.

    but fine. Kansas St. played both last year. When they played OSU, they put up 500 yards and scored 50 points, losing on the last play of the game at the OSU 2 yard line.

    When Arkansas played K-State, they held Klein to 40 yards rushing, half the total yardage and 16 points. In the bowl game, it was pretty clear that Ark was the better team.

    Should you consider a teams schedule, look at who they played, rather than just their won-loss record? Yep. Sorry.

    Should you consider who an SEC played? And what their SEC schedule was when judging how good they are? Yep again.

    Sorry.

    6 straight NC wins, by 4 different SEC teams, against the best of 3 different "power" conferences.

    THE Ohio St. U was embarrassed twice ...by 2 different SEC teams.
    Oklahoma made it a bit of a game against Florida.
    Texas was able to stay with Bama for a quarter.
    Oregon at least stayed with Auburn for 3 quarters.

    In the Florida OSU game, people questioned while Florida should be there. I mean, they got beat by Auburn. BY the end of the NC game, it was clear that the over-hyped OSU had no business on the same field.

    I'm sorry, where's the conference parity? where are the challengers to the conference.

    You guys want someone to challenge the SEC, that's fine. But promoting these Great White Hopes isn't going to do it.

    It reminds me a little of the Heavyweight boxing division in the 70's.

    Ali
    Frazier
    Foreman
    Norton

    Norton fought Ali 3 times, winning the first, losing 2 close fights.
    Got pummeled by Foreman, as did everyone but Ali.
    Beat everyone else.

    Fought the best, (except Frazier), had 3 losses.

    Along come Duane Bobick. The latest Great White Hope. 38-0. Awesome. Undefeated. Actually beat a very young Larry Holmes.

    People actually thought Bobick was going to beat Norton. He was undefeated, Norton had losses to Ali and Foreman.

    It took Norton 2 minute to destroy him.

    Does the level of competition make a difference?

    um..yeah, it does. And I can't believe I'm having to explain that.

    Does beating upper tier SEC teams mean more than beating upper tier Big 10 teams?

    Yes, it does. And I can't believe I'm having to explain THAT, too.

    The last decade of college football means a lot more to me than someone saying, "oh, that's just crazy".
    Where has anybody said the SEC isn't the creme of the crop? However giving Arkansas credit for beating average teams because they beat one average SEC team and am average Big 12 team while not giving other teams the same credit is a bit ridiculous. It has little to do with conference parity, and you know that.

  4. #44
    Registered User IlluminatusUIUC's Avatar
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by cookie G View Post
    Oklahoma St. lost whatever it claimed it had last year by losing to Iowa St.
    By one score in double overtime, on the road, less than 12 hours after one of the head coach's friend died in a plane crash.

    But this is the lopsided nature of the SEC debates. When a low SEC team upends a top SEC team, then it's the "SEC grind" and they're so good top to bottom that every SEC champ deserves national title consideration. When a low ranked Big XII/Pac12/B1G time upsets, then it shows how weak the winner supposedly was.

    but fine. Kansas St. played both last year. When they played OSU, they put up 500 yards and scored 50 points, losing on the last play of the game at the OSU 2 yard line.

    When Arkansas played K-State, they held Klein to 40 yards rushing, half the total yardage and 16 points. In the bowl game, it was pretty clear that Ark was the better team.
    No one's disputing that Arkansas had a better defense than OSU, but OSU had one of the best offenses in the country. They were averaging almost 50 points a game.

    Should you consider a teams schedule, look at who they played, rather than just their won-loss record? Yep. Sorry.

    Should you consider who an SEC played? And what their SEC schedule was when judging how good they are? Yep again.

    Sorry.
    This is reasoning is circular. SEC schedules are the hardest because they play SEC teams. SEC teams are the hardest to play because they're in the SEC.

    The SEC has elite teams, middle roaders, and bottom feeders like everyone else. The elite teams have been the elitest in the country, but that doesn't mean sharing a field with Alabama imparts magical pixie dust that makes Vanderbilt good.

    6 straight NC wins, by 4 different SEC teams, against the best of 3 different "power" conferences.
    Sure, but considering that the 6th was two SEC teams paired up, the streak is a little dubious. Now, 5 is nothing to sneeze at either, but consider that the SEC champion has effectively a free pass into the NCG every single year.

    THE Ohio St. U was embarrassed twice ...by 2 different SEC teams.
    ...
    In the Florida OSU game, people questioned while Florida should be there. I mean, they got beat by Auburn. BY the end of the NC game, it was clear that the over-hyped OSU had no business on the same field.
    People questioned why they were there because of Michigan. #2 UM loses by 3 points to #1 OSU at Columbus (as a side note, that was one of the best games I've ever watched), allowing UF to jump them into the NCG. If the Big 10 had the same poll bias that the SEC had, UM and OSU would have met again in the NCG and the Big 10 would have walked away with that one. That's how this SEC run perpetuates itself.

    Texas was able to stay with Bama for a quarter
    Coincidentally it was the quarter while they still had their Heisman candidate quarterback, but sure. They couldn't compete once he went down. Fair enough.

    Oregon at least stayed with Auburn for 3 quarters.
    Er, Oregon tied the game with 2:30 left. Auburn was the better team, but they couldn't put it away.

    I'm sorry, where's the conference parity? where are the challengers to the conference.

    You guys want someone to challenge the SEC, that's fine. But promoting these Great White Hopes isn't going to do it.
    Why do games like Utah dumping Alabama and OSU* beating Arkansas not count? Boise State beat Georgia by 2 TDs in Atlanta, and UGA won the SEC East that year. SEC fans point to the national championships as a indicator of the strength of their whole conference, which is bunk. Do we the Bills get to claim greatness because New England has 3 Super Bowl wins and 5 AFC titles in 10 years?

    The top of the SEC is the best. The middle teams are flawed just like everyone else.
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  5. #45
    Registered User IlluminatusUIUC's Avatar
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Well that was unexpected. One of the most disciplined teams I've ever seen is undone by a mental mistake.

  6. #46
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by DraftBoy View Post
    If you hate a team because your other team can't scout properly then maybe you need to re-evaluate your position. Sam Young is a former Irish player.
    I know, but I didn't want to include him because he hasn't completely busted out, nor was he a first round pick.

    Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be.

  7. #47
    Registered User DraftBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Gators and Trojans lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    I know, but I didn't want to include him because he hasn't completely busted out, nor was he a first round pick.
    Fair enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    FWIW that Texas A&M team is only going to get better. They already have the best DE in the country in Damontre Moore who is only a junior, Johnny Football is a freshman along with Mike Evans and they have a great recruiting class coming in.

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