Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

Yes, realist. Can anyone explain the reasoning and Payton's decions?

Anyways, here is my thoughts on it.

1) I think its a Powerplay. Payton did not want anyone else coming in and dethroning him or his power. Imagine if Bill Parcels comes in, what happens if the Saints with the SB??? Payton is OUT!

2) What happens if their Offensive Coordinator becomes interm coach and Saints make playoffs? Saints lose one of the best OC in the NFL as he moves on to become HC somewhere else. Also, it communicates to the Saints organization that it could win without Payton.

Solution: Pick 2 guys as interm coaches who are ZERO threat to you. Do you know how many times Joe Vitt has been talked about as potential HC? ZERO. Now, the downside is that the Saints may not be as good as possible but that risk is acceptable if your Payton, person making decision. Worst case for Payton, the Saints lose more games and he gets a better draft pick which is also the most likely scenario and no one would be the wiser.

Lastly: I dont think the Saints are losing on purpose. This is not a conspiracy theory or tanking a season. No, but I would not put the notion mentioned above past Payton.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

Read my post.
I NEVER said or implied that the Saints are Losing on purpose or tanking a season.


I wanted to:

1. See if anyone could explain the reasoning and Payton's decions?

2. To illustrate that the difference between winning and losing is subtle even with great talent and that a little manipulation can go a long way.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

Guess WHO is a HOT HOT HOT Coaching Candidate????

Thats right its SEAN PAYTON!!!

His value has skyrocketed after the Saints 0-4 Start.

His Contract extension was void as part of Bounty-gate... Now Teams like the Cowboys, Saints, Eagles, etc may be after him as soon as end of 2012 Season!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000091016/article/examining-sean-paytons-future-where-will-he-land

[PS: If Saints start out 5-3 instead of the other way around and look decent, Payton would be in SOL situation. He would be a tainted coach who will be seen as replaceable and much of the credit would have gone towards the players. If they won a SB or made a deep playoff run with a formidable coach like their OC or Bill Parcells, then there would be very little chance he returns and his open market value might be a fraction of what it is now.]

This is was selfish move by an egomaniac coach protecting his career.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

"Sean Payton is smarter than I thought, and I thought he was plenty smart. Before his suspension he helped the Saints pick his coaching replacement for the 2012 season, and he screwed up the process so much that the Saints went into the dumper. This isn't hindsight, either. I saw it happening in April, and wrote about it then.

But Payton is smarter even than that. He has manipulated events so thoroughly that a return to the Saints as the conquering hero, which looked to be his end game back in April, has become an afterthought. It could still happen, sure -- but that has become the least of his options.
Unless Roger Goodell pulls another Roger Goodell and smites Sean Payton for the hell of it, Payton is about to become the most coveted, most expensive free agent coach in NFL history."

"All I know is Sean Payton handpicked some of the most obviously non-threatening guys he could. And I know why: Because Sean Payton is all about Sean Payton. Even as he has overseen three years of outrageous behavior that gutted the Saints -- cost them their head coach for 16 games, another coach for six games, their general manager for eight games, plus draft picks and fines -- Sean Payton made the call to replace Sean Payton with men who would do the job fairly well.But not too well."

You have to Give it to HIM!!!! In a suspension year, Sean Payton has managed to SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE his value!!!


http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/18584844/what-payton-wants-is-obvious-but-why-would-saints-want-it-too
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...-way-to-dallas
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...not-be-allowed

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

Can we all agree NOW that some of the MEN in the NFL MANIPULATE SITUATIONS for their benefit and that its Extremely EFFECTIVE....


IF a SUSPENDED COACH can screw things around to such an extent that a SUPER BOWL CONTENDER starts out 0-4 Imagine whats possible with a low talent team that just lost their HOF QB for the year!!!

[kingJofNYC]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

I love how you're basically having a conversation with yourself.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

I love how you're basically having a conversation with yourself.

This is why I have the 'I told you so threads'...

Basically I share an observation. Everyone comes out against me. I show evidence, and everyone disappears....
During the argument, they offer to eat crow. They ask me to prove them wrong and when I do, they complain...or disappear... Where is the honor in that?

[feldspar]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

This is why I have the 'I told you so threads'...

Basically I share an observation. Everyone comes out against me. I show evidence, and everyone disappears....
During the argument, they offer to eat crow. They ask me to prove them wrong and when I do, they complain...or disappear... Where is the honor in that?

I really don't hope you are including this thread in those where this type of stuff may happen. The premise of this thread is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't even justify a response, really.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

I really don't hope you are including this thread in those where this type of stuff may happen. The premise of this thread is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't even justify a response, really.

What's so ridiculous about it?

[Albany,n.y.]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

What's so ridiculous about it?

The fact that starting 0-4 doesn't help them in any way, shape or form. If you're premise was correct they wouldn't have played their asses off today to beat the league's last undefeated team unless their only goal this season is to keep Miami's perfect season intact.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

The fact that starting 0-4 doesn't help them in any way, shape or form. If you're premise was correct they wouldn't have played their asses off today to beat the league's last undefeated team unless their only goal this season is to keep Miami's perfect season intact.

You Didn't Read Any of the Articles.
I am pretty sure you also didn't read my posts fully.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

You Didn't Read Any of the Articles.
I am pretty sure you also didn't read my posts fully.

It sounds like you read everyone else's presumptions. This thread is about how 1man, Sean Payton, manipulated the interim coach process & selection in such a way as to 1) not threatened his job 2) remain viable. Payton, is now the hottest FA coach in the NFL and the Saints poor start was the best sales pitch ever!

This has nothing to do saints losing on purpose or some ******ed crap that the other posters assumed. It has to do it how 1 man was able to manipulate an organization & have an influence on outcomes.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

It sounds like you read everyone else's presumptions. This thread is about how 1man, Sean Payton, manipulated the interim coach process & selection in such a way as to 1) not threatened his job 2) remain viable. Payton, is now the hottest FA coach in the NFL and the Saints poor start was the best sales pitch ever!

This has nothing to do saints losing on purpose or some ******ed crap that the other posters assumed. It has to do it how 1 man was able to manipulate an organization & have an influence on outcomes.

Because Payton wouldn't be the hottest FA coach in the NFL if the Saints were undefeated? You're grasping for straws on your tanking point that is completely off base in your many assumptions that it exists.

[Mike]

Re: Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?

Because Payton wouldn't be the hottest FA coach in the NFL if the Saints were undefeated? You're grasping for straws on your tanking point that is completely off base in your many assumptions that it exists.

What are you referring to? There were 3 articles written on it. Three!!! All pointed to the fact that Sean Payton should have never been allowed to pick his replacement. Then he picks a chump & a guy who is suspended for first 6games. No surprise the Saints start 0-4. Quickly Sean Payton's name Starts getting thrown around as a Hot coaching candidate.

In the offseason Mike&Mike in the Morning on ESPN talked about this issue: if Saints start out Hot it confirms the notion that all you need is great talent & that coaching is overrated. The Mikes said coaches from around NFL were paying special attention how the Saints start. The slow start demonstrated the opposite, a great coaches value. If Carmichael or Parcels were chosen & Saints start out Hot then without doubt Payton's value drops!