Katrina vs. Sandy

[dannyek71]

This thread is meant to be more of a question vs. a statement.

I spent the last 2 weekends in NYC and witnessed much of what is going on 1st hand. While much of the city is able to function normally, much of it is much like a third world state. No power, no food, no water, no government presence. Hypothermia (especially in children) is a real fear for thousands. Residents from around the area who have gas (which is few) are bringing supplies to the effected areas and openly state that they are doing it because the government has offered no assistance. Staten Island has been hit pretty hard. Groups have been posing as Redcross/Con Edison employees and getting into houses like that. The National Guard was forced to stop giving out fuel to people in need due to a fear/reality of increased violence. This isn't hearsay, these are all reports on the local NYC news channels.

For the record, I don't blame Obama or the gov't for their response. Things could have gone better, but this was a major hurricane. I feel the same way about Katrina and the national gov't response for that. However, I am wondering where all the national outrage is that existed after Katrina? Why is this event different? NYC is the nation's largest city (by far) and is in the center of the populated eastern seaboard. I wonder how things are still so bad. Subways being down is one thing, however how can people's lives be at risk due to a lack of heat, food and water? Even with the problem being in NYC, these are now back page news problems.

Again, not making a statement. I am just asking a question. This is not meant to be political finger pointing.

Thanks all.

[Discotrish]

This thread is meant to be more of a question vs. a statement.

I spent the last 2 weekends in NYC and witnessed much of what is going on 1st hand. While much of the city is able to function normally, much of it is much like a third world state. No power, no food, no water, no government presence. Hypothermia (especially in children) is a real fear for thousands. Residents from around the area who have gas (which is few) are bringing supplies to the effected areas and openly state that they are doing it because the government has offered no assistance. Staten Island has been hit pretty hard. Groups have been posing as Redcross/Con Edison employees and getting into houses like that. The National Guard was forced to stop giving out fuel to people in need due to a fear/reality of increased violence. This isn't hearsay, these are all reports on the local NYC news channels.

For the record, I don't blame Obama or the gov't for their response. Things could have gone better, but this was a major hurricane. I feel the same way about Katrina and the national gov't response for that. However, I am wondering where all the national outrage is that existed after Katrina? Why is this event different? NYC is the nation's largest city (by far) and is in the center of the populated eastern seaboard. I wonder how things are still so bad. Subways being down is one thing, however how can people's lives be at risk due to a lack of heat, food and water? Even with the problem being in NYC, these are now back page news problems.

Again, not making a statement. I am just asking a question. This is not meant to be political finger pointing.

Thanks all.

Because the news media does not want Pres. Obama blamed for lack of government response, thus harming his re-election chances. He flies in, does photo op, jets off to Vegas.

Patti

[MidnightVoice]

Katrina showed pictures of the people stuck in the Superdome for days with no help.

[dannyek71]

Katrina showed pictures of the people stuck in the Superdome for days with no help.

Many people in the city are having trouble at least getting to any shelter. In Staten Island, they don't know where they are or cannot get to them.

[DraftBoy]

This thread is meant to be more of a question vs. a statement.

I spent the last 2 weekends in NYC and witnessed much of what is going on 1st hand. While much of the city is able to function normally, much of it is much like a third world state. No power, no food, no water, no government presence. Hypothermia (especially in children) is a real fear for thousands. Residents from around the area who have gas (which is few) are bringing supplies to the effected areas and openly state that they are doing it because the government has offered no assistance. Staten Island has been hit pretty hard. Groups have been posing as Redcross/Con Edison employees and getting into houses like that. The National Guard was forced to stop giving out fuel to people in need due to a fear/reality of increased violence. This isn't hearsay, these are all reports on the local NYC news channels.

For the record, I don't blame Obama or the gov't for their response. Things could have gone better, but this was a major hurricane. I feel the same way about Katrina and the national gov't response for that. However, I am wondering where all the national outrage is that existed after Katrina? Why is this event different? NYC is the nation's largest city (by far) and is in the center of the populated eastern seaboard. I wonder how things are still so bad. Subways being down is one thing, however how can people's lives be at risk due to a lack of heat, food and water? Even with the problem being in NYC, these are now back page news problems.

Again, not making a statement. I am just asking a question. This is not meant to be political finger pointing.

Thanks all.

You're looking at two entirely different storms in two entirely different areas and asking to draw parallels that are going to be hard for anybody to make. One way to look at is that Katrina was more powerful, it was big storm but it wasn't close to Sandy's size. Also it hit an area which was below sea level, and one that we all knew was going to eventually get hit by a big storm (and will again btw).

Whereas Sandy was not as powerful a storm, but hit an area that is not traditionally CAT prone and got so far inland (due mostly to sheer size) that you're seeing damage and issues from Ohio to the eastern seaboard. For example the State of New Jerey is divided up in 34 nucleus for the power company, of those 34, 32 lost power and to this day a number still remain without power. The Government is actually doing a lot of good work but there are parts that nobody can even get to yet. Having just gotten off the phone with our NYC office I can tell you its a nightmare up there, nothing is working right at the moment and simply trying to get int the city for anybody is a herculean task. I believe NJ Transit reopened this morning, only to shut back down due to over crowding.

As for what the news is focusing on, that's just ****ty luck with the election being tomorrow. I think a big hand needs to be given though to Gov's Christie and Cuomo, as well as Mayor's like Bloomber and Booker who has been working round the clock with the Feds to coordinate efforts and get the word out. I have seen both Booke and Christie using social media to spread message to people who need help, and asking for people to respond to them if they can or if somebody knows somebody that needs help. This kind of stuff didn't occur with Katrina.

Lastly it was important to note that the majority of criticism over Katrina came after the intial response, we are still in the middle of that response with Sandy. In general though I'd say our disaster response has been and continues to be under funded and inadequate. Especially if this brand of storm becomes closer to the new normal as many suggest it may be.

- - - Updated - - -

Many people in the city are having trouble at least getting to any shelter. In Staten Island, they don't know where they are or cannot get to them.

People are struggling just as bad to get into Staten Island, its impossible to locate those that need help if you can't even get there.

[DraftBoy]

Oh and a NorEaster is coming on Wednesday. 50+ winds and more water.

[dannyek71]

DB, I don't disagree with you. Personally, I don't see many faults with the gov't response. It was a crappy situation and they are doing the best they can.

[DraftBoy]

DB, I don't disagree with you. Personally, I don't see many faults with the gov't response. It was a crappy situation and they are doing the best they can.

And Im not trying to make the case they are doing either a good or crappy job but my company has people on the ground and they are telling us its a complete cluster**** there right now.

[gebobs]

However, I am wondering where all the national outrage is that existed after Katrina? Why is this event different?

Katrina vs. Sandy...in the bluntest terms possible, 1833 deaths mainly in 2 states vs. 110 deaths over 8 states

Katrina vs. Sandy...partisan fingerpointing vs. bipartisan cooperation

Katrina vs. Sandy...incompetent, political cronyism (Brownie) vs. bureaucratic professionalism (Fugate)

Katrina vs. Sandy...wanton disregard for warnings vs. widescale preparation

Katrina vs. Sandy...do nothing (Brown) vs. do too much (Brown again)

[DraftBoy]

Katrina vs. Sandy...in the bluntest terms possible, 1833 deaths mainly in 2 states vs. 110 deaths over 8 states

Katrina vs. Sandy...partisan fingerpointing vs. bipartisan cooperation

Katrina vs. Sandy...incompetent, political cronyism (Brownie) vs. bureaucratic professionalism (Fugate)

Katrina vs. Sandy...wanton disregard for warnings vs. widescale preparation

Its far too early to make any of these assumptions. I really do want to urge people to just let this play out a bit longer before we start trying to analyze results or placing blame. The recovery and repair is still in its infant stages at this point especially with Wednesday's storm coming.

[gebobs]

Its far too early to make any of these assumptions.

Good thing you didn't post it then. Fact of the matter is, Katrina was bungled. Sandy is not being bungled.

[DraftBoy]

Good thing you didn't post it then. Fact of the matter is, Katrina was bungled. Sandy is not being bungled.

Sad.

[gebobs]

Sad.

Sorry about that. Make yourself some tea. Maybe you'll feel better.

[DraftBoy]

Sorry about that. Make yourself some tea. Maybe you'll feel better.

I feel fine now, I just don't see the point in what you're trying to accomplish here.

[gebobs]

I feel fine now, I just don't see the point in what you're trying to accomplish here.

Sorry it's not so clear for you. The OP asked a question. I answered it.

[DraftBoy]

Sorry it's not so clear for you. The OP asked a question. I answered it.

If that's what you want to call it, then sure.

[jimmifli]

Sad.

I sense another "now I understand why people don't respond to your posts anymore" post coming...

[DraftBoy]

I sense another "now I understand why people don't respond to your posts anymore" post coming...

I understand why alot of people don't respond to certain posters/topics and it is quite sad. Would you not agree?

For the most part its due to an unwillingness from all sides to even look for a common ground. Would you again not agree?

Many of the very good right wing posters have left and they were among some of the most intelligent posters, even people like Mercy post far less than they used to. Could be that they got busy, but most left because discussions got pointless. I think we all see that and for the most part agree, its just a matter of when we all reach that point that we say, alright this isn't going anywhere and move on in one way or another. Again do you not agree?

I mean what is the point exactly, there is no end game, there is no winner or loser. Few threads are worth bickering over endlessly (except the Bacon thread) at some point rational people just look at it and come to the conclusion that there isn't much left to say.

[gebobs]

If that's what you want to call it, then sure.

I have a feeling you disagree about something I wrote. Is it the death toll? Is it the stark differences in bipartisan cooperation among local, state, and federal government? Is it the even more stark contrast in the professional qualifications and conduct of the FEMA directors? What is it?

Enough with your casual hand waving. What did I get wrong exactly? Apparently, you think I got it ALL wrong since you question "any of these assumptions".

[dannyek71]

I understand why alot of people don't respond to certain posters/topics and it is quite sad. Would you not agree?

For the most part its due to an unwillingness from all sides to even look for a common ground. Would you again not agree?

Many of the very good right wing posters have left and they were among some of the most intelligent posters, even people like Mercy post far less than they used to. Could be that they got busy, but most left because discussions got pointless. I think we all see that and for the most part agree, its just a matter of when we all reach that point that we say, alright this isn't going anywhere and move on in one way or another. Again do you not agree?

I mean what is the point exactly, there is no end game, there is no winner or loser. Few threads are worth bickering over endlessly (except the Bacon thread) at some point rational people just look at it and come to the conclusion that there isn't much left to say.

Being in Georgia, I am sure he understand the situation in NYC much better than anyone else.