I have a lot of respect for Chan.

[OpIv37]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

My point is that our problems are a lot more than Chan and with a real QB, I think it would be fair to say everyone's opinion of him might be quite different

bills fans will be screaming for a blood letting by the end of the year. And Ralph will offer up Chan... probably Buddy too in an attempt to appease the blood thirsty crowd.

None of it will be fair to Chan or the efforts he has put into coaching this team in what amounts to an entirely dysfunctional organization.

Some of this was probably already covered in this thread- I didn't read it carefully. But here goes- this is the problem with what you are saying:

Chan says he focuses the attention on the offense, yet there have been two games this year where the O failed to score even one touchdown (and at least one more where we didn't score a TD until the game was out of hand). The D is in shambles and he's done nothing about it- in fact, he admits to focusing on the O.

You are right that he would look better with a good QB. But he doesn't have a good QB. He does, however have arguably the best RB tandem in the game right now, one of whom is leading the league in YPC by a long shot. Yet, he only runs the ball 6 times in the 2nd half in a game where we were never more than 2 scores behind. He keeps calling plays like he has a good QB and no running game when the reality is the opposite.

None of that is on the failed management or a dysfunctional organization. None of that is on the poor QB or the situation Chan is in. That's all on Chan himself.

You say you've worked for a dysfunctional organization? Well, I wouldn't call the organization I work for "dysfunctional," but the project I'm on is messy. There are 3 or 4 contractors involved with no clear chain of command, we don't get to generate our own requirements, we have access issues for our testing environments, our IT service is off-site, etc. All of this is a major headache and makes it hard for me to get work done. But NONE of that is an excuse for me to turn in documents that are missing key pieces of information, have spelling and grammar errors, have inconsistencies, etc. It's still my job to work at the highest possible level of quality given the constraints.

And that's where Chan fails. No doubt he is in a tough situation, but he is not maximizing the talent and ability that he has at his disposal. Don't let the things that are out of his control become an excuse for him screwing up the things that are within his control.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

Gailey initially was very candid when he addressed the media. I respected that, especially after hearing Jauron answer every question with..."Uhhh, I love this game, and I love these guys."

But since the team has continued to falter, he's starting to work on his cliches.

The problems of this team run very deep:

Marketing guys with too much input.
Accountants with too much input.
Poor scouting department.
Owner with one foot on the bananna peel.

Gailey is no rocket scientist to be sure, but the whole mess is not his fault.

At this point, I honestly doubt that Cowher or Shannahan could have done much better.

Yet Jauron did better.

[cookie G]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

Yes, he does Jimmi, but he's had 3 offseasons to replace Fitz and he hasn't even seriously tried to upgrade him.

You're assuming he's making that decision. And he isn't.

Look, even before Chan was hired...Buddy made it a mission to rebuild the defense. He's now on his 2nd rebuild in 3 years.

That is why 90% of the draft and FA resources were allocated to the defensive side.

Chan was given the 30th ranked offense when he took over.

28
30
30
25
30

Those were the rankings of the Bills offense for the 5 prior years before he got here.

To "retool" the anemic offense, he was given...CJ Spiller...and in year 3, Cordy Glenn.

Everyone else was a UFDA, (Nelson, Jones) a person off of another team's practice squad (Urbik, Chandler) or people who weren't even in the league (Pears).

That's what he was given.

To contrast that, the defense was given 2 of the 3 1st round picks;
Both of the 2nd round picks from the 1st 2 drafts;
Both of the 3rd round picks from the 1st 2 drafts;
The majority of the later round picks.

In the 2011 draft, you have to go to the 2nd pick of the 4th round to see an offensive player drafted.
In addition, the defense was given FA's

Dwan Edwards
Andra Davis
Nick Barnett
Mario Williams
Mark Anderson

In addition to that, the leading rusher and leading receiver from the previous regime were traded for mid round draft picks.

To me, that's a GM who is hell bent on rebuilding a defense at all costs and letting the offense "make due".

So let's say he does talk to Buddy "I think you should draft a CB every year" Nix and says he wants a QB.

What would you expect the answer to be? " Oh, sure Chan, just as soon as I get done drafting defensive backs, I'll get right on it."

Is it his fault or is it the guy who's now rebuilding his 3rd defense?


I'm sorry, I'm still amazed the got the offense up to 14th last year, considering what he was given.

Shoot me.

[OpIv37]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

You're assuming he's making that decision. And he isn't.

Look, even before Chan was hired...Buddy made it a mission to rebuild the defense. He's now on his 2nd rebuild in 3 years.

That is why 90% of the draft and FA resources were allocated to the defensive side.

Chan was given the 30th ranked offense when he took over.

28
30
30
25
30

Those were the rankings of the Bills offense for the 5 prior years before he got here.

To "retool" the anemic offense, he was given...CJ Spiller...and in year 3, Cordy Glenn.

Everyone else was a UFDA, (Nelson, Jones) a person off of another team's practice squad (Urbik, Chandler) or people who weren't even in the league (Pears).

That's what he was given.

To contrast that, the defense was given 2 of the 3 1st round picks;
Both of the 2nd round picks from the 1st 2 drafts;
Both of the 3rd round picks from the 1st 2 drafts;
The majority of the later round picks.

In the 2011 draft, you have to go to the 2nd pick of the 4th round to see an offensive player drafted.
In addition, the defense was given FA's

Dwan Edwards
Andra Davis
Nick Barnett
Mario Williams
Mark Anderson

In addition to that, the leading rusher and leading receiver from the previous regime were traded for mid round draft picks.

To me, that's a GM who is hell bent on rebuilding a defense at all costs and letting the offense "make due".

So let's say he does talk to Buddy "I think you should draft a CB every year" Nix and says he wants a QB.

What would you expect the answer to be? " Oh, sure Chan, just as soon as I get done drafting defensive backs, I'll get right on it."

Is it his fault or is it the guy who's now rebuilding his 3rd defense?


I'm sorry, I'm still amazed the got the offense up to 14th last year, considering what he was given.

Shoot me.

So, how do you explain the fact that, despite so much attention being paid to the D, the D is still in shambles? The HC is responsible for the defense, too.

[gebobs]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

At this point, I honestly doubt that Cowher or Shannahan could have done much better.

I disagree. We were in this game and could have taken it, but we had to take some shots. But Gailey doesn't have it in him. He's got no game. None.

On the road against arguably the best team in the conference, the Bills are down 7-0 and have the ball on the Houston 4 with just over a yard to go for the first. Go for it and make it, and it's a whole 'nother game. Would Cowher or Shanahan have gone for it? Maybe, maybe not...but I guarantee they would have a high percentage play up their sleeve that they would drop in a heartbeat. Gailey has no such play.

Then there's the most egregious coaching call of the day. Your idiot quarterback has taken a sack at the 20 yard line instead of lobbing the ball out of the end zone and you are forced to call a time out with 9 seconds to go in the half. Plenty of time to take a quick shot and take a 10-7 halftime lead and a huge psychological edge. Does Cowher take a shot? Does Shanahan? Hell, does Jauron? You're damn right they do.

Third quarter, down 14-6. Third and a short 2...what do you do. Well if your Gailey, you rest your fortunes on your lousy quarterback who throws it at the receiver's feet and then...kick a field goal. Play not to lose. Play not to lose. Play not to lose.

Fourth quarter, down 21-9. 2nd and 10 with 4:24 remaining on our own 30. Idiot quarterback completes a useless 5-yard pass. The team looks around at each other, scratch their butts waiting for the quarterback to tell them what to do. Everyone watching the game aside from Gailey can't believe what they are seeing when dumbass from Harvard signals to the team to huddle up. By the time the team waddles to the line, 0:39 precious seconds have ticked off.

Play not to lose. Play not to lose. Play not to lose.

The game wasn't over yet. The drive wasn't even over yet. But at that point, they had truly lost.

All of that is on Gailey. And I can point to numerous similar examples of this from every game this dolt has coached. He's indefensible. The only possible explanation for his seeming popularity here is that some of you have forgotten what good coaching looks like.

[trapezeus]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

i get the point of hte original post, but chan is losing my respect quickly. the things that are hampering him are things he won't change. Bad qb and unimaginative defense.

This is on him to mitigate it and find ways to win. This is the NFL in 2012. Free agency killed any chance of having an allstar team. you need to find what works and adapt.

he hasn't...and if there isn't a dramatic surge in the next 8 weeks where he shows he understands the weaknesses and is fixing them. he should be out the door. and its unfortunate because i do see that he's a very capable OC if given a qb.

[trapezeus]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

Gilbride has 2 Super Bowl rings and nobody calls him kill drive in NY.

and he went from beinga pass wacky OC to a sound coordinator once he got a legitimate qb.

[coastal]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

That explains a lot.

Riveting.

[kingJofNYC]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

Great post by cookie G. Not a lot of talent on offense added.

Wasted resources on defense, not a single improvement. Again, when you argue about talent levels between the last two regimes you're arguing over piles of ****, this one might be slightly smaller than the last.

Edit: As a guy who follows the Giants because of where I live, Gilbride gets killed all the time down here. Fans complain about as much as we did when things are off. Their offense hasn't been good lately, but they have Eli and explosive receivers that can strike at any time. Fans are really starting to get after him after the Redskins/Cowboys/Steelers performances, and they won two of three.

[jdaltroy5]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

You're assuming he's making that decision. And he isn't.

Look, even before Chan was hired...Buddy made it a mission to rebuild the defense. He's now on his 2nd rebuild in 3 years.

That is why 90% of the draft and FA resources were allocated to the defensive side.

Chan was given the 30th ranked offense when he took over.

28
30
30
25
30

Those were the rankings of the Bills offense for the 5 prior years before he got here.

To "retool" the anemic offense, he was given...CJ Spiller...and in year 3, Cordy Glenn.

Everyone else was a UFDA, (Nelson, Jones) a person off of another team's practice squad (Urbik, Chandler) or people who weren't even in the league (Pears).

That's what he was given.

To contrast that, the defense was given 2 of the 3 1st round picks;
Both of the 2nd round picks from the 1st 2 drafts;
Both of the 3rd round picks from the 1st 2 drafts;
The majority of the later round picks.

In the 2011 draft, you have to go to the 2nd pick of the 4th round to see an offensive player drafted.
In addition, the defense was given FA's

Dwan Edwards
Andra Davis
Nick Barnett
Mario Williams
Mark Anderson

In addition to that, the leading rusher and leading receiver from the previous regime were traded for mid round draft picks.

To me, that's a GM who is hell bent on rebuilding a defense at all costs and letting the offense "make due".

So let's say he does talk to Buddy "I think you should draft a CB every year" Nix and says he wants a QB.

What would you expect the answer to be? " Oh, sure Chan, just as soon as I get done drafting defensive backs, I'll get right on it."

Is it his fault or is it the guy who's now rebuilding his 3rd defense?


I'm sorry, I'm still amazed the got the offense up to 14th last year, considering what he was given.

Shoot me.

I'm not saying that Chan isn't a good offensive mind. I'm saying he screwed up by hitching his wagon to Fitzpatrick.

Do you REALLY think his hands are tied? If Chan tells Buddy that Fitz sucks and he can't win with him, then that should be their number one priority. Do you think Buddy gives Fitz a huge extension without Chan's endorsement?

Either they're not on the same page or Chan WAY overvalued Fitz. Either one isn't good.

And besides, like someone else pointed out, it's also Chan's responsibility to field a competent defensive team. If he can't do it, then bare minimum it's his responsibility to find someone who can.

He's failed on both counts there.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

To "retool" the anemic offense, he was given...CJ Spiller...and in year 3, Cordy Glenn.

Everyone else was a UFDA, (Nelson, Jones) a person off of another team's practice squad (Urbik, Chandler) or people who weren't even in the league (Pears).

That's what he was given.

Again with this "given." He's the head coach of the team, not the waterboy. If he needs something to do his job, he can go out there and get it. Also consider that CJ Spiller was a Top 10 pick in the first year of a rebuild, and 3 years later Chan still can't figure out how to get him consistent touches. Consider that Chan got TJ Graham, who didn't even dress for weeks while he learned the offense, and has barely been seen even when he does. Consider that Chan had a troubled Pro Bowl halfback on the roster that we traded away. That we signed Brad Smith for his "versatility," which to this point has been limited to incredibly boneheaded wildcattery and special teams. Chan's supposed specialty is working with physically talented QBs, to which we've added Thigpen, Young, and now Jackson - none of whom improved one bit since they arrived.

Yeah, the defense has been a trainwreck, but Chan's own failures with the offense cannot be ignored.

[swiper]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

No.

ive worked as a manager in an organization where the owners were totally dysfunctional.

so much of your success and the success of the team you are charged with leading is hindered... and u can do very little outside of just focussing even harder on what you do actually have control over.

that is very much the situation Chan is in... and he isn't losing his focus.

i respect that.

You're opinion seems a little out of character for you. Almost like you're trolling for a fight.

Gailey has problems. Like not going for those 2 points the week before, was it? Not using Spiller more. Not mixing up his play calls. All opponents are defensing to his over-use of the screen pass, for instance. He rides a dead Wild Cat to death for unknown reasons. He also gives his pet players too much rope. He has a lot of issues. No argument about what you said about Fitzpatrick. But Gailey has some tendencies that are easy for opponents to key in on.

Now lets talk about linebackers. Barnett has taken a step back. Still good, but not as much. Sheppard is lost in the middle. Bradham may have some upside - but why didn't they find that in camp? They should put flip Barnett and Sheppard imo.

[jimmifli]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

Yes, he does Jimmi, but he's had 3 offseasons to replace Fitz and he hasn't even seriously tried to upgrade him.

Based on where we were positioned in the draft, I don't think we've missed out on any QBs that will be much better than Fitz. I'm sure he knows the limitations he's dealing with. Fitz might be the 20-25th best QB on the planet. That isn't enough to win but it also means it's pretty hard to find someone better.

There's a lot to fault Chan for, but getting passably NFL quality play out of a bunch of scrubs isn't one of them. My biggest criticism is the team's lack of fire and his tolerance of them quitting. The team quit. TWICE. AND NOTHING ****ING CHANGED. That showed his total lack of leadership.

[cookie G]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

So, how do you explain the fact that, despite so much attention being paid to the D, the D is still in shambles? The HC is responsible for the defense, too.

How? It was pretty clear when he got here that the idea to switch to a 3-4 was Buddy's. At Gailey's opening press conference, he said something like "I'm warming up to the idea of the 3-4".

Which is company speak for "I'm told this is what we're doing and I'll go along with it publicly."

Hell, when Gailey would use the term "hybrid defense" in PC's, Buddy would usually retort with "we're a 3-4 team and we're going to build like a 3-4 team". Rebuilding the defense was Buddy's idea.

The GM came in inheriting a defense that was 15th in the league, 2nd in the league over all against the pass, and top 5 against the pass in most categories. Instead of building on that, he decided to retool the whole division.

Yeah, Chan's the head coach and by nature of his position, IS responsible for both facets of the team. But that doesn't point to the reason.

If you really want to know why the defense is a dysfunctional lot, you have to go higher.

[kingJofNYC]

Re: I have a lot of respect for Chan.

TJ Graham was projected as a late round pick, some had him in the 7th, the Bills in all their wisdom took him in the 3rd. Guy is a midget. Sure he has speed but nothing else. Doesn't run routes well, can't get off press coverage. More failure in evaluating talent. Gailey's not the one who selected him. Guy doesn't even fit this offense, vertical threat in a horizontal scheme.

I still don't understand the Brad Smith signing, but who gave him the contract, Chan? Your coaches ask for things but you can't rubber stamp everything. Who knows if Chan even had input on that deal.

Thigpen physically talented? The guy has no talent at all, just because he can run a little bit doesn't make him physically talented. Guy would be out of the league if it wasn't for a small stretch of games in KC under Chan. This actually sounds familiar, what other player excelled in a small strech/sample and then was given a huge contract?

Nix failed to bring in a capable backup, and then panicked when Young was a complete washout.

Listen, I'm not giving Chan a pass, but Nix should probably take more heat than anyone else. Number 3 pick in the draft is playing like complete ****. Mike Williams 2.0