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Cast off Scott Chandler, undrafted David Nelson, 7th rounder Stevie... all have found success under Gailey. The OL is another area. Hell even a sub-par QB like Fitz has had success. Spiller boasts over 6 yards a carry due in part to the offensive scheme that utilizes his talent. Gailey isn't perfect and is too loyal and hard headed over keeping his current starters... Freddie should have been benched by game 6, Fitz should have been canned, replaced, or challenged with a legit possible starter in the past off-season after such a poor second half of last season. But, the scheme itself is decent and in many cases he gets more out of his guys than most could.
So, Tom Brady has Bill Belichick to thank for literally all of his success? Joe Montana is only in the Hall of Fame because of Bill Walsh? Late round draft picks performing well is a testament to the PLAYER, not the coach. The TEAM performing well is a testament to the coach. Our team is not performing well.
So, Tom Brady has Bill Belichick to thank for literally all of his success? Joe Montana is only in the Hall of Fame because of Bill Walsh? Late round draft picks performing well is a testament to the PLAYER, not the coach. The TEAM performing well is a testament to the coach. Our team is not performing well.
Both Brady & Montana benefited being drafted by those teams. If Montana for example was drafted by the Raiders, he would have looked & played terrible in that system which featured long downfield passing.
On offense I would argue we have talent at RB, interior offensive line and at one WR spot. Everyone else is a question mark or debatable starter. I was calling him last offseason but one guy who might be available this offseason is Jermichael Finley. I would love for us to land him as he would immediately give us a weapon in the passing game outside of Stevie. Yes he's had bouts of inconsistency but really think would give us someone that could be a legitimate threat outside of Stevie. As to me Scott Chandler is nothing more then a depth TE/Red Zone specialist.
Interior OL? How about Cordy Glenn? Probably on of the top young OTs in NFL right now. Hairston is also developing into a solid starter. I don't consider some struggles against one of the best pass rushing tandems in the NFL a regression or sign of inadequacy.
Why what? We both watched this team spend several picks and several years trying to get the players for a 3-4. Remember the discussion about finding the guys with the right size, skills, speed, etc... to properly run the 3-4? And they never really did. Now, we have the players to run a 4-3 on the DL and in the secondary. We need a ILB and OLB. Hell, I think a productive, solid, ILB alone would make a big impact. The scheme has to be changed to cover the seems and the flat. I agree that we ought to be looking for an ILB/OLB that can cover the quicker TE's in this league. If we find the scheme and players to stop the Pats offense, we will have built a team that can beat many teams. Focus on what it will take to stop the Pats offense. Welker and Gronk in the flats and seems. I don't think that has to be a major shift in defensive scheme with all new players.
And that's just on defense.
On offense, we adequate talent on the OL, RB, WR, and TE. Can we always add to the mix and push starters? Yes and we always should look to do that. But, our offense has been successful and IMO is successful enough to win games. We need a QB who can continue to run our spread but who has better accuracy and can throw a more accurate long ball. I also would like to add more intangibles as well. A guy like Geno Smith seems more and more appealing. I don't want to throw away something that's successful enough to win games. A new offensive playbook alone could take a year to learn and master.
Were close enough that status quo as far as HC and schemes (4-3) should stay. It's a shorter road to success to stick with much of what we have. Get the few pieces you need (QB, ILB, OLB) add to the depth with vets and young guys who will hopefully push to start and finish the current model.
Just my two cents guys. I understand many totally disagree and want to start over and I respect that opinion. I just disagree.
No we watch this team be stupid and pick players who were ill suited for the 34 (Troup) or pick players that seemed like logical fit at one position get moved to another for no reason (Moats to ILB, Batten to OLB). This team never really understood how to evaluate talent for the defense they were running so in the end they quit trying and went back to the 43 despite having a team that was full of pieces that kind of fit the 34 but kind of fit the 43. Perfect example is the DT situation. You have a phenomenal 43 DT in Kyle Williams, and you have an out of place DT in Marcel Dareus.
We needed LB's in the 34 and not surprisingly we still need LB's in the 43. We needed CB help in the 34 and not suprisingly we still need CB help in the 43. Same with SAF. The only thing that you could argue has improved with our scheme change is our pass rush and even that's marginal. Little to nothing has changed, in fact if you ask me watching we've gotten worse since our ill timed scheme change, not better nor even close to better. This defense is average at best and barely watchable at worst.
The offense is best termed with your own words "adequately talented" not average, not good, not great, but just adequate by NFL standards. Its honestly sad that we have sunken to this low with our own standards as a fan base.
You dump this entire staff and administration, and you move forward with a new direction (43 or 34) on defense and offense. Dump the cute screen game crap and commit to running the frigging football. Get some talent in here beyond just the first team and some skill positions. Actually work to build a roster instead of just working based on who can throw a blind dart at our draft board. From top to bottom this org has failed for years now, its time to once again scrub it clean and start over. There is not much worth salvaging at this point especially if this team is serious about sticking around and getting a new stadium.
COMING SOON...
Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!
So, Tom Brady has Bill Belichick to thank for literally all of his success? Joe Montana is only in the Hall of Fame because of Bill Walsh? Late round draft picks performing well is a testament to the PLAYER, not the coach. The TEAM performing well is a testament to the coach. Our team is not performing well.
If you can't see that the most out of players is in part due to the head coach I guess we'll just have to disagree.
No we watch this team be stupid and pick players who were ill suited for the 34 (Troup) or pick players that seemed like logical fit at one position get moved to another for no reason (Moats to ILB, Batten to OLB). This team never really understood how to evaluate talent for the defense they were running so in the end they quit trying and went back to the 43 despite having a team that was full of pieces that kind of fit the 34 but kind of fit the 43. Perfect example is the DT situation. You have a phenomenal 43 DT in Kyle Williams, and you have an out of place DT in Marcel Dareus.
We needed LB's in the 34 and not surprisingly we still need LB's in the 43. We needed CB help in the 34 and not suprisingly we still need CB help in the 43. Same with SAF. The only thing that you could argue has improved with our scheme change is our pass rush and even that's marginal. Little to nothing has changed, in fact if you ask me watching we've gotten worse since our ill timed scheme change, not better nor even close to better. This defense is average at best and barely watchable at worst.
The offense is best termed with your own words "adequately talented" not average, not good, not great, but just adequate by NFL standards. Its honestly sad that we have sunken to this low with our own standards as a fan base.
You dump this entire staff and administration, and you move forward with a new direction (43 or 34) on defense and offense. Dump the cute screen game crap and commit to running the frigging football. Get some talent in here beyond just the first team and some skill positions. Actually work to build a roster instead of just working based on who can throw a blind dart at our draft board. From top to bottom this org has failed for years now, its time to once again scrub it clean and start over. There is not much worth salvaging at this point especially if this team is serious about sticking around and getting a new stadium.
Even if our roster doesn't fit for either the 4-3 or the 3-4, it still will set us back to scrap the entire staff. The scheme changes alone may take a year or more to master. That's a year I'd rather not waste. And I only see a few significant changes to ILB and OLB as being necessary to have adequate talent on the defense to be a playoff caliber defense. And on O I only see QB as preventing us from having a playoff caliber defense.
Now, I do agree with adding better depth and you and I have agreed on that for years. But, I don't think our current roster is as far away as you do talent wise overall.
Even if our roster doesn't fit for either the 4-3 or the 3-4, it still will set us back to scrap the entire staff. The scheme changes alone may take a year or more to master. That's a year I'd rather not waste. And I only see a few significant changes to ILB and OLB as being necessary to have adequate talent on the defense to be a playoff caliber defense. And on O I only see QB as preventing us from having a playoff caliber defense.
Now, I do agree with adding better depth and you and I have agreed on that for years. But, I don't think our current roster is as far away as you do talent wise overall.
Can't really set a team back that has yet to take many (if any) steps forward.
COMING SOON...
Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!
Can't really set a team back that has yet to take many (if any) steps forward.
No steps forward? Really?
From 1999 to 2010 the Bills put up more than 20 points on the Patriots once... 9/14/2009. Yet since Gailey has been here they have done it 5 out of 6 times.
Beating the Pats on a consistent basis is the name of the game in the AFC East and because the Pats are so good, if we can beat them we basically are a playoff team.
The defense is the issue. In that same time span, the defense allowed over 20 points 14 out of 20 times. And since Gailey they have allowed over 20 points every time (all 6 contests).
The offense has made a big step forward under Gailey. Get rid of Gailey and we may go back to another decade of crappy offense as well. Yet, change the DC and a few solid pieces at LB and we may become a playoff caliber team.
From 1999 to 2010 the Bills put up more than 20 points on the Patriots once... 9/14/2009. Yet since Gailey has been here they have done it 5 out of 6 times.
Beating the Pats on a consistent basis is the name of the game in the AFC East and because the Pats are so good, if we can beat them we basically are a playoff team.
The defense is the issue. In that same time span, the defense allowed over 20 points 14 out of 20 times. And since Gailey they have allowed over 20 points every time (all 6 contests).
The offense has made a big step forward under Gailey. Get rid of Gailey and we may go back to another decade of crappy offense as well. Yet, change the DC and a few solid pieces at LB and we may become a playoff caliber team.
In my opinion it's an easier route.
Yet we were 7-9 under Jauron back 5 years ago and now, where are we? Maybe we'll get back to 7-9 with this weak schedule and maybe we won't. Being able to score on the Patriots shouldn't be your own barometer on if we're progressing as a team. Couple that with the fact the Pats D is worse now than it was back 5+ years ago too. So even in your example are we progressing or are the Pats just regressing?
Yet we were 7-9 under Jauron back 5 years ago and now, where are we? Maybe we'll get back to 7-9 with this weak schedule and maybe we won't. Being able to score on the Patriots shouldn't be your own barometer on if we're progressing as a team. Couple that with the fact the Pats D is worse now than it was back 5+ years ago too. So even in your example are we progressing or are the Pats just regressing?
Either way, we still lose consistently to them.
Please re-read. I never said it's the only way to tell if were getting better. But it is a factor. This offense is better under Gailey IMO. The second you can him you may revert to a much less productive offense.
Change for the sake of change is not always better. It could go either way. It could end up being better or worse.
Let's remember that the same factors preventing us from landing a top tier HC still exist. And if the likes of Cowher, Gruden, etc... wouldn't come here before why will they now? Who is this sure fire Harbaugh type that's eager to come to Buffalo and in one year make us a playoff team? That guy doesn't exist. I think were looking at the same type of HC sprospects that we always have. Retreads, never has been coordinators, or lesser college HC's.
Losing Gailey puts us in the same market for the same sort of HC again. And the biggest argument for doing so seems to be that we just want Gailey fired. Not that we have a clear plan to land a guy with a clear vision or bonafide pedigree to upgrade the position. I know I will see the responses that bash Gailey saying anyone would be better. But, that's not rational thinking. Out of the type of HC candidates that we are likely to be able to hire, some may be better than Gailey but it won't be a sure thing or clear cut.
Gailey is the type of HC this team can hire, we really can't get the top tier guys. And so if you shop in the same market, why do you expect a drastically better outcome?
Again, just change the pieces that need changing. Fire Wanny and hire a DC that can design a legit playoff caliber 4-3 scheme. One capable of covering the flats and seems. Replace a few key cogs like ILB and OLB with productive solid or better starters. And go hard after a long term upgrade to Fitz. A guy who can throw an accurate long ball. A guy with better intangibles and playmaking at key times. A guy that has much better accuracy overall.
I honestly think the talent level is a lot closer than many are giving it credit for. I think we can be a playoff team quicker if we keep Gailey and make a few key changes.
Please re-read. I never said it's the only way to tell if were getting better. But it is a factor. This offense is better under Gailey IMO. The second you can him you may revert to a much less productive offense.
Change for the sake of change is not always better. It could go either way. It could end up being better or worse.
Let's remember that the same factors preventing us from landing a top tier HC still exist. And if the likes of Cowher, Gruden, etc... wouldn't come here before why will they now? Who is this sure fire Harbaugh type that's eager to come to Buffalo and in one year make us a playoff team? That guy doesn't exist. I think were looking at the same type of HC sprospects that we always have. Retreads, never has been coordinators, or lesser college HC's.
Losing Gailey puts us in the same market for the same sort of HC again. And the biggest argument for doing so seems to be that we just want Gailey fired. Not that we have a clear plan to land a guy with a clear vision or bonafide pedigree to upgrade the position. I know I will see the responses that bash Gailey saying anyone would be better. But, that's not rational thinking. Out of the type of HC candidates that we are likely to be able to hire, some may be better than Gailey but it won't be a sure thing or clear cut.
Gailey is the type of HC this team can hire, we really can't get the top tier guys. And so if you shop in the same market, why do you expect a drastically better outcome?
Again, just change the pieces that need changing. Fire Wanny and hire a DC that can design a legit playoff caliber 4-3 scheme. One capable of covering the flats and seems. Replace a few key cogs like ILB and OLB with productive solid or better starters. And go hard after a long term upgrade to Fitz. A guy who can throw an accurate long ball. A guy with better intangibles and playmaking at key times. A guy that has much better accuracy overall.
I honestly think the talent level is a lot closer than many are giving it credit for. I think we can be a playoff team quicker if we keep Gailey and make a few key changes.
So basically your opinion is Gailey is the best we can possibly ever aspire to acquire so instead of going a different route we should just stay the course. Awesome. Because that's working so well. We're progressing so much under this guy.
Gailey and this staff have ZERO chance at ever making the playoffs. ZERO chance of even ever competing for the playoffs.
This is year 3 in this pathetic process and we've had absolutely NO progression on either side of the ball. This is year 3 with the easiest schedule you could pretty much possibly hope for and we're still no closer to being a playoff team now than we were 10 years ago under Gregg Williams actually we were closer under Gregg. We've actually regressed this year from last year. We scored more PPG and allowed less PPG and had a better turnover ratio.
I'd rather have a defensive minded coach who would make sure we didn't have to hope our offense scored 30+ week in and week out to win football games.
And Mr Offensive Genius has our offense at 17th in scoring and 17th in yards.
For more context...we are scoring 1.1 PPG more now than we were in Jauron's last full season here, 2008. Yet we're giving up 8.6 PPG more. So where we really closer to a playoff team? Now or back in 08? We're a FULL TD worse per game now.
Even more context...we are scoring 6.9 PPG more now than we were in Gregg's last season here, 2003. Yet we're giving up 11.6 PPG more. Net difference of 4.7 PPG better in 2003 than today.
Both Dick and Gregg were run out of town for being failures, yet, we were clearly better during their tenures here than we are today. Yet some people still think Gailey is the answer? Baffling.
Record under Gregg - 17-31
Record under Jauron - 24-33
Record under Gailey - 14-29
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