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Thread: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

  1. #41
    Registered User Ed's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    My first post. Hello all!!!! Seems like a great board, with some intelligent conversation, a far cry from the main board (BBMB) lol.

    To the point of the thread:

    I think you have the right family, just the wrong Gruden. I am a big advocate of Jay Gruden (Cincy OC). One of the real "up and comers" in this league, who has lead one of the youngest offenses in the league (and one of the most maligned franchises in the league) back to respectability in a very short time (not even 2 full seasons). His development of Andy Dalton has been absolutely amazing. I honestly could gush all day about Jay Gruden and how much respect I have for him and his offensive prowess, but this being my first post, I wont bore the masses.

    As far as Jon goes, to me he is just meh. Decent coach, capable of getting above average play from his offensive unit, but has proven time and time again that he isnt very capable of grooming a QB. His entire reputation is built from the 2002 Tampa bay Bucs. That teams success was all about that suffocating defense, and was a team built by Tony Dungy. Besides, my inital impressions are that Gruden will end up in Cleveland coaching the Browns.

    Another "dark horse" candidate of mine, and the guy that I would want if we couldnt land Jay Gruden is Charlie Strong HC at Louisville. Fantastic defensive mind, who you can also apply the "up and comer" title to. He may be too far outside of the box for Buffalo to consider, but I think he is going to be wildly successful when he gets his opportunity.
    Welcome!

    There have been rumors here in Denver the past couple days that the University of Colorado is interested in Charlie Strong and could make a big push for him.

  2. #42
    Lets GO BUFFALO!! SquishDaFish's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Gruden
    Cowher
    Billick
    Reid
    Chip Kelly
    Brian Kelly

    In that order is my preferences

  3. #43
    Registered User D2K's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Welcome!

    There have been rumors here in Denver the past couple days that the University of Colorado is interested in Charlie Strong and could make a big push for him.
    Thank you sir!!! Charlie Strong would be a fantastic hire for any team.

    I would also like to add in regards to Jon Gruden/Billick/Cowher, that ZERO coaches in the history of the NFL have won a Super Bowl with 2 different teams.

  4. #44
    Lets GO BUFFALO!! SquishDaFish's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    Thank you sir!!! Charlie Strong would be a fantastic hire for any team.

    I would also like to add in regards to Jon Gruden/Billick/Cowher, that ZERO coaches in the history of the NFL have won a Super Bowl with 2 different teams.
    Yea thats a reason not to hire a coach

  5. #45
    Registered User D2K's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by SquishDaFish View Post
    Yea thats a reason not to hire a coach
    Hah, just pointing out a fact dude. Take it for what its worth.

    I do know this, the longer a coach sits out of the game, the more the game changes.

    Gruden last coached in 2008, thats 4 years since he last coached an NFL game.

    Cowher last coached in 2006, thats 6 years since he last coached.

    Billick last coached in 2007, thats 5 years since he last coached.

    Its a risky proposition to take on a coach who hasnt actually coached in 4+ years, regardless of their last name and past resume.

  6. #46
    ObamaCare should have a provision for Bills Fans to get a major psychiatric evaluation! Why so Serious?'s Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    There are reasons he might. NOT

    1) I think he's ready to get back in the game, there are only likely to be a handful of vacancies

    PLENTY OF CHOICES FOR HIM AND SAN DIEGO WILL BE THE SPOT

    2) I think Ralph knows it's good business to hire a marquee name at this point in his life so he may be willing to actually overpay
    NO HE WILL NOT

    3) Buddy Nix is retiring so you could offer Gruden as much control as he wants. I prefer a real GM but if that's what it took to bring Gruden in I'd do it.

    BUDDY NIX IS NOT RETIRING... WHAT WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN?

    4) The idea I laid out as far as picking/grooming a young QB is in fact right up Grduen's alley, big selling point.

    GRUDEN WILL ONLY GO WHERE THERE IS A GOOD QB IN PLACE. WITHOUT A GOOD QB IN PLACE A COACH IS DOOMED TO FAILURE.

    5) We're actually a handful of players and the right coach away from being pretty good. This isn't 2 years ago when the roster looked like a wasteland. There are holes but it's fixable with the right offseason, QB being key. Gruden is smart enough to see the potential.

    DREAM ON THIS TEAM SSSSSUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKSSSSSS.

    6) Ralph could play the "I know I've meddled before but I'm 102 and eat my lunch with a straw so I promise I won't this time" card. Might work.

    RALPH WILL NOT CHANGE.
    In my day we did not have self-esteem... we had self-respect, and no more of it then we earned.

  7. #47
    Registered User BillsFever21's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    It looks like Gruden is our flavor of the offseason for HC's that have been out of the game for years that will never come to Buffalo. No chance of it happening and I don't know if I'd give up the farm and give him complete control anyway.

    First it was Cowher for a couple years. Then it was Shanahan everybody talked about for a year. There was also some fantasies of Jeff Fisher.

    I didn't want Shanahan from the start anyway and I'm glad we didn't give the farm for him. He did good with Elway but his teams failed for years leading up to his firing. Since he went to Washington his teams haven't had a good record either. Looks like this offseason will be the fantasy talk of Gruden.

    Our only options are hiring a previously failed coach that didn't have much success to begin with or trying to find the right diamond in the rough out of the coordinator ranks. Maybe even college if need be. I'd take option B instead of hiring an already failed coach. We already did this with Jauron and then Gailey and look how that has worked out. I'd rather try to find and scout out that young up and coming coordinator who is adapt to the current NFL game. The problem is we always have horrible GM's making the decision and a terrible owner. Neither of them could spot them out if they jumped out in front of them.
    Last edited by BillsFever21; 11-30-2012 at 05:57 PM.

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  9. #48
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Pass.

    Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be.

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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    Its a risky proposition to take on a coach who hasnt actually coached in 4+ years, regardless of their last name and past resume.
    If a guy can coach, he can coach.

    Dick Vermeil took over a decade off between coaching the Eagles and Rams.

    Bill Parcells took 2 seasons off between coaching the Giants and Patriots, and another 3 seasons away from coaching between the Jets and Cowboys.

    After Bill Walsh retired as 49ers head coach he took 3 years off before returning to take over Stanford. He took another 4 seasons off before returning to the 49ers as an executive.

    Head coaches with a track record of success are hard to find. Just because they have missed a few years doesn't mean the game has passed them by. They aren't going to forget how.

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    better days (11-30-2012),SquishDaFish (11-30-2012)

  12. #50
    All-Pro Zoner Don't Panic's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyek71 View Post
    I want Andy Reid
    I think that may be entirely possible if somehow the current FO is shown the door.

  13. #51
    Registered User kishoph's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    if he loves the life, why has he been out of it for so long? There have been at least a dozen coaching changes since he's been out, maybe more.
    After I read your post, I wondered just how many there were, as far as I figured, there were 19 coaches fired after the 2008 season, the number of coaching changes could be higher (retirement), but 19 were fired. I don't know what the word on Gruden wanting to coach again is, but I wouldn't be surprised if he chose not to get back into it.

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    Registered User Night Train's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    David Shaw - Stanford

  15. #53
    Registered User D2K's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerP View Post
    If a guy can coach, he can coach.

    Dick Vermeil took over a decade off between coaching the Eagles and Rams.

    Bill Parcells took 2 seasons off between coaching the Giants and Patriots, and another 3 seasons away from coaching between the Jets and Cowboys.

    After Bill Walsh retired as 49ers head coach he took 3 years off before returning to take over Stanford. He took another 4 seasons off before returning to the 49ers as an executive.

    Head coaches with a track record of success are hard to find. Just because they have missed a few years doesn't mean the game has passed them by. They aren't going to forget how.
    Sure, but the game didnt make such drastic rule changes all favoring the offensive side of the ball, and the game wasnt as pass heavy as it is now.

    Also, there is one thing every coach you mentioned has in common, and thats that they NEVER won another Super Bowl (or in Walsh' case, a national title) with their new team in their new venture. You named off some great coaches too (Walsh/Vermeil/Parcells) and none of them won anyhting with multiple teams.

  16. #54
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    Also, there is one thing every coach you mentioned has in common, and thats that they NEVER won another Super Bowl (or in Walsh' case, a national title) with their new team in their new venture. You named off some great coaches too (Walsh/Vermeil/Parcells) and none of them won anyhting with multiple teams.
    They all won wherever they went. Parcells and Vermeil went to Super Bowls with multiple teams. A lot of coaches have had success with more than one team. If the Super Bowl is your only measuring stick, that is a pretty high standard. I think it would be a big step if the Bills found a coach that could have them consistently competitive at this point. It takes a lot to win a Super Bowl, including luck.

    I'm not sure how you could make an argument the game has passed Gruden by. He runs a version of the WCO very similar to Green Bay, and they have been one of the best offenses in the NFL the last few years. The game hasn't changed that much. I'm sure he keeps up with the game and he still has a lot of contacts in the league. The guy didn't forget how to coach. If anything, the time away can re-charge his batteries and give him perspective on some of the mistakes he made in the past. His next team will benefit from that.

    Gruden would be perfect for the Bills. He is a strong personality that would clean house and establish a new tone. The Bills need that kind of hard-driving guy. He has a track record of success and would bring credibility. He is an aggressive offensive coach and they would be fun to watch. He sure as hell would be able to recognize the talent he had in Spiller and would figure out ways to get him the ball (look at what he did with Charlie Garner, a similar kind of player).

    I just don't see him going anywhere unless he knows he will have a good QB to work with. He wants to succeed, and has stated many times he doesn't think you can be successful in the NFL without a good QB.

  17. #55
    Registered User D2K's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerP View Post
    They all won wherever they went. Parcells and Vermeil went to Super Bowls with multiple teams. A lot of coaches have had success with more than one team. If the Super Bowl is your only measuring stick, that is a pretty high standard. I think it would be a big step if the Bills found a coach that could have them consistently competitive at this point. It takes a lot to win a Super Bowl, including luck.

    I'm not sure how you could make an argument the game has passed Gruden by. He runs a version of the WCO very similar to Green Bay, and they have been one of the best offenses in the NFL the last few years. The game hasn't changed that much. I'm sure he keeps up with the game and he still has a lot of contacts in the league. The guy didn't forget how to coach. If anything, the time away can re-charge his batteries and give him perspective on some of the mistakes he made in the past. His next team will benefit from that.

    Gruden would be perfect for the Bills. He is a strong personality that would clean house and establish a new tone. The Bills need that kind of hard-driving guy. He has a track record of success and would bring credibility. He is an aggressive offensive coach and they would be fun to watch. He sure as hell would be able to recognize the talent he had in Spiller and would figure out ways to get him the ball (look at what he did with Charlie Garner, a similar kind of player).

    I just don't see him going anywhere unless he knows he will have a good QB to work with. He wants to succeed, and has stated many times he doesn't think you can be successful in the NFL without a good QB.
    Yes, the Super Bowl is the measuring stick. What is yours?

    Here is a fact about Gruden: His last WIN in the playoffs was the 2002 Super Bowl. He went to the playoffs in 2005 and 2007 and lost the first game. After the Super Bowl win in 2002, his record was 45-51 (53 if you count both playoff losses). Once he began implementing his alleged strong system in Tampa (after he dismantled Dungys Super Bowl team) he was 6 games under .500.

    I dont think I have to make the argument that the game has passed Gruden bye, I think Grudens post-Super Bowl record does a good enough job of doing that for me. Now I am not trying to be snarky or crass with you, I am just saying that Gruden is HUGELY over-rated.
    Last edited by D2K; 12-01-2012 at 10:24 AM.

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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    I dont think I have to make the argument that the game has passed Gruden bye, I think Grudens post-Super Bowl record does a good enough job of doing that for me. Now I am not trying to be snarky or crass with you, I am just saying that Gruden is HUGELY over-rated.
    His post-Super Bowl record including 3 winning seasons, including one where he won 11 games. He went 9-7 his last 2 years in Tampa. The year after firing him they won 3 games.

    There have only been 31 head coaches in NFL history that have won a Super Bowl. Gruden is one of them. If that is your criteria for a good coach, he meets it. To win in this league you need players, and when Gruden has had the players he wins. That is why he wants to be sure he has the QB, because he experienced how hard it is when you don't. He didn't have the QB in Tampa.

    Gruden coached for 10 years and made the playoffs 5 times, with a 5-4 playoff record. Bills have won 9 games once since 1999 and haven't made the playoffs in that span. The guy is a huge upgrade. After years of Mularkey's, Jauron's and Gailey's, the Bills would have a guy who has shown he can win in the NFL. I'm not sure why you would be against that.
    Last edited by GingerP; 12-01-2012 at 11:08 AM.

  19. #57
    Registered User D2K's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerP View Post
    His post-Super Bowl record including 3 winning seasons, including one where he won 11 games. He went 9-7 his last 2 years in Tampa. The year after firing him they won 3 games.

    There have only been 31 head coaches in NFL history that have won a Super Bowl. Gruden is one of them. If that is your criteria for a good coach, he meets it. To win in this league you need players, and when Gruden has had the players he wins. That is why he wants to be sure he has the QB, because he experienced how hard it is when you don't. He didn't have the QB in Tampa.

    Gruden coached for 10 years and made the playoffs 5 times, with a 5-4 playoff record. Bills have won 9 games once since 1999 and haven't made the playoffs in that span. The guy is a huge upgrade. After years of Mularkey's, Jauron's and Gailey's, the Bills would have a guy who has shown he can win in the NFL. I'm not sure why you would be against that.
    Again, in those post-Super Bowl years he had only 2 playoff appearances and was bounced both times in Tampas 1st game. They won 3 games the following year because they were left with a 38 year old Jeff Garcia, a 33 year old Brian Griese, and a 27 year old Luke McCown by Gruden. Tampa drafted Josh Freeman the year after Gruden left.

    Gruden is considered a QB guru and that mystifies me as well. Gruden drafted 3 Qb's in his time with Oakland and Tampa they were:

    Marques Tuiasosopo (2nd round)

    Chris Simms (3rd round)

    Bruce Gradkowski (6th round)

    Not one of those players EVER became anything more than a below league average back-up. I just think the "Chuckie" persona and the fact that he won the 2002 Super Bowl (with an inherited team) have given him a reputation as a top-tier coach, when in reality, I would argue the complete opposite. Thats why I would be against Jon Gruden coming to Buffalo. I wouldnt trust him to make the right selection for one at the QB position, and I wouldnt trust him to be able to develop whatever Qb they drafted either.

    Gruden also followed up the Super Bowl victory with a less than astounding 7-9 record in 2003.
    Last edited by D2K; 12-01-2012 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    Gruden is considered a QB guru and that mystifies me as well. Gruden drafted 3 Qb's in his time with Oakland and Tampa they were.
    Gruden didn't draft anyone. He has never been a GM. Tampa fell apart after that Super Bowl because of poor moves and salary cap trouble that Rich McKay, the Tampa GM, was responsible for. Gruden did pretty well with the talent he had.

    When he has had talent, he has been successful. He won with Rich Gannon. If he gets a QB at his next stop, he will win again.

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    Registered User D2K's Avatar
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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerP View Post
    Gruden didn't draft anyone. He has never been a GM. Tampa fell apart after that Super Bowl because of poor moves and salary cap trouble that Rich McKay, the Tampa GM, was responsible for. Gruden did pretty well with the talent he had.

    When he has had talent, he has been successful. He won with Rich Gannon. If he gets a QB at his next stop, he will win again.
    Gruden was in charge of developing these players, and he gets a fail in that category. I know you cant disagree?

    To say that Gruden (or any coach) would be more successful with a competent QB is the farthest thing from forward thinking I can imagine. Of course if coach "x" has a good QB the odds of winning go up substantially, thats common sense.

    And if Gruden gets ZERO blame from you for the Tampa situation how do you explain the 10 games they won 2 years later? The answer is because they have an up and coming QB, something Gruden NEVER developed ANYWHERE.

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    Re: For what it's worth, my choice for Bills next coach

    Quote Originally Posted by D2K View Post
    Gruden was in charge of developing these players, and he gets a fail in that category. I know you cant disagree?

    To say that Gruden (or any coach) would be more successful with a competent QB is the farthest thing from forward thinking I can imagine. Of course if coach "x" has a good QB the odds of winning go up substantially, thats common sense.

    And if Gruden gets ZERO blame from you for the Tampa situation how do you explain the 10 games they won 2 years later? The answer is because they have an up and coming QB, something Gruden NEVER developed ANYWHERE.
    You can't develop a QB if he doesn't have the ability. He worked fine with Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson. He got the most out of his talent, given the games he was able to win. That was pretty good considering the talent he had to work with. Vince Lombardi wouldn't have won a Super Bowl with Chris Simms, Marques Tuiasosopo or Bruce Gradkowski, yet you expected Gruden to do so?

    He did win 9 games in each of his last 2 years in Tampa, that is pretty good. It is hard to win games in the NFL, and Gruden did it over a period of time in his career. He won a Super Bowl as well. He is a pretty accomplished coach.

    Blame in Tampa? Blame for what, for winning 9 games with Jeff Garcia and Brian Griese in his last year there? He actually had Garcia playing well. The issue was the defense falling apart with injuries at the end of the year.
    Last edited by GingerP; 12-01-2012 at 01:45 PM.

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