What more important Talent or Coaching?

[Mike]

Often times Coaches and QBs alike get too much of the credit and blame in winning and losing. Outside of a few exceptional coaches -and QBs- which do you think is impacts winning more: coaching or talent?


Arguments for Talent:
Many of the top coaches have had a hard time attaining a high level of output after going to a new team or after great players retired. Example include: Mike Shannahan (until RG3) Gruden (Offense in Tampa) Billick (Offense in Baltimore) Belichick (Defense in NE after great players retired) Joe Gibbs (2nd run in DC) Jimmy Johnson (Miami) etc...

Each of these coaches could not retain former glory in their domain (offense/defense) and/or team success. Some continued winning but failed to attained their former dominance.

Arguments for Coaching:
Its seems that every so often a new coach comes on board and turns a perennial loser into a winner. Bill Parcels comes to mind as he helped turn around 4 Franchises (Giants, Jets, Cowboys, Pats) taking two of them to the SB and the other to the title game. Parcels helped turn a 1-15 Jets team into a playoff team in his first season!

The NFL is full of such stories from Chuck Noll to Bill Walsh. Earlier this decade, Bill Belichick turned a 5-11 Pats team into a Dynasty and most recently Harbaugh transformed a losing 49ers team into a SB contender in his first year.


So which is it? Which do you think is impacts winning more: coaching or talent?

[G Wolly]

Coaching.

Anyone could possess a top-of-the-line sports car, but if you don't know how to drive it, it's worthless.

[kishoph]

Talent, Vince Lombardi couldn't turn Ryan Fitzpatrick into a winner. You need talent, especially in key positions like QB, you can draw up the best X's and O's and have the greatest game plan, but if the players can't execute, it's worthless.

[Skooby]

Manning practically ran his own offense & obviously needed very little coaching, so their is my call of talent being most important.

[Night Train]

Can't have one without the other.

[X-Era]

Coaching.

Anyone could possess a top-of-the-line sports car, but if you don't know how to drive it, it's worthless.

Or Mario Andretti can only go 30 in a go-cart...

[OpIv37]

Arguments for coaching:
San Diego and Washington. San Diego has a lot of talent, but consistently struggles because Norv Turner is an idiot. Washington lacks talent on offense outside of the rookie Griffin, yet their O is playing well and leading the league in rushing. And their D is talented but riddled with injuries, and yet they are still 6-6 and in the hunt for their division.

[justasportsfan]

both.

THe 9'ers were nobodies with a lot of talent until Harbaugh came in.

[Extremebillsfan247]

All the great talent in the world couldn't unify a team the way a great coach could. It's just a fact. Every player in the NFL has some talent or they wouldn't be there. It takes a great coach to utilize it and get the most out of it. That's how players become champions. Just saying.

[Bill Cody]

Arguments for coaching:
San Diego and Washington. San Diego has a lot of talent, but consistently struggles because Norv Turner is an idiot. Washington lacks talent on offense outside of the rookie Griffin, yet their O is playing well and leading the league in rushing. And their D is talented but riddled with injuries, and yet they are still 6-6 and in the hunt for their division.

"outside of rookie Griffin"?? He's the reason they're 6-6. The bloom had almost entirely fallen off the Mike Shanahan rose until they got RG III. If you watched that game last night he is amazing, and that rookie RB is good too.

[imbondz]

Luck. Time and Chance. Randomness. Cause we had one of the best coaches of all time and some of the best players and teams of all time, and all at the same time, and...

[The Jokeman]

Arguments for coaching:
San Diego and Washington. San Diego has a lot of talent, but consistently struggles because Norv Turner is an idiot. Washington lacks talent on offense outside of the rookie Griffin, yet their O is playing well and leading the league in rushing. And their D is talented but riddled with injuries, and yet they are still 6-6 and in the hunt for their division.

That Washington offense was very reminescent of what the Bills do with all the bubble screens etc. The only difference is RGIII is a serious running threat and has a much stronger and more accurate arm than Fitz.

[coastal]

Both.

[BertSquirtgum]

I voted coaching. Gailey has more talent and less wins than Jauron had with less talent. I never thought I would be able to say it but the Bills would have been better off sticking it out with Jauron rather than hiring Gaylee.

[kingJofNYC]

Obviously you would like to have both, or rather need both, but bad coaching can kill good talent. Just look at the Niners, awful coaching before Harbaugh got there. They added Rogers, Whitner and Aldon Smith but most of the players on the roster were there before Harbaugh arrived. Met and exceeded expectation when the Niners nabbed a good coach, they had the talent but Singletary and Nolan did little with it.

[Syderick]

I'd say both.

[TacklingDummy]

Talent.

Levy didn't win in KC.
Belicheck didn't win in Cleveland.
Shanahan didn't win in Washington, until RG3.
The Bills haven't been consistent winners since Kelly, Thomas, Smith, Reed, etc.

[Historian]

Ask Herb Brooks...

[OLDSRIP]

I say both.
but I've always believed that a great qb, will cover many flaws.
how many so called great coaches didn't have a great qb?

[mjt328]

They both play off eachother.


I think the best current example is the San Francisco 49ers.

Two years ago, they had quite a few good players on both sides of the ball, but were being held back by the quarterback position. Alex Smith has said himself... all of the coaches prior to Harbaugh put too much pressure on him, expecting him to play at a high level and carry the offense like Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. He was never good enough to do it. When Harbaugh took over, he put the focus on the running game and defense. Smith was asked to make low-risk throws and manage the offense. The team immediately became a Super Bowl contender.

Harbaugh certainly gets credit for putting the available talent in the best position to succeed. But he wouldn't be able to make this system work without defensive talent like Patrick Willis, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, NaVorro Bowman, etc. - or without Frank Gore and a strong offensive line. It also wouldn't work if Alex Smith wasn't a good game manager.


Looking at us...
In my opinion, the Bills have talent in enough places... they SHOULD have pushed for a playoff spot this year.
Instead, our coaches put too much focus on the weak parts of the team (quarterback, linebacker, cornerback) and it ultimately led to failure.


On offense, I think Gailey has DESIGNED an excellent system/scheme to take advantage of his players strengths and hide their weaknesses (and that includes Fitz).
Gailey's biggest problem comes on gameday and how he lets the opposing defense completely dictate his playcalling. All our opponents have to do is clog the line of scrimmage and Gailey gets pass happy. Our strength is clearly in FJax and Spiller, not Fitz. With our quarterback situation (inaccurate, mistake-prone, below average arm), there is absolutely no excuse for running the ball as little as we do. I don't care if the defense stacks 9 in the box, we still need to ram it down their throats.

On defense, Wannstedt is the definition of a generic coach. He runs "his" system, regardless of the talent available.
Things have looked much better since our front four started playing better 3-4 weeks ago and started getting pressure on the quarterback. But there are going to be times when the front 4 just can't get there (like the first half of the season)... and guess what? Our linebackers and corners CANNOT cover.
Honestly, our best bet (until we add more talent in the back 7) is to blitz and blitz a lot. But with a coach like Wannstedt, it isn't going to happen. Which means our defense completely lives and dies with how well Mario and Co. are playing on a particular week.