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Thread: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary school!

  1. #121
    Democrats are people too imbondz's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmifli View Post
    http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...311070301/1023

    "Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.


    The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."


    In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy."

    ~Roger Ebert
    buuuulll*****

    violent movies and violent video games have waaaay more affect on kids than the nightly news. no highschool kids are watching the nightly @#$%@ news.
    My faith doesn’t make me perfect, it makes me forgiven.


  2. #122
    rodger dorn of predictions Discotrish's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Law enforcement is saying the bodies of the children are still in the school, right where they fell, due to the investigation that needs to happen. They will remain that way for a while -- maybe this is common but that creeps me out even more.

    Also they're saying the MOTHER of the suspect bought the guns he used.

    Patti

  3. #123
    Not quite Best in the World.... ckg927's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    This, quite frankly, is beyond sick. According to some, there was a reason why it happened....

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...f-our-schools/

    Current's The Young Turks ended tonight's show with the clip-and Cenk teed off on the guy, calling him "a sick son of a bitch".
    "If there's one thing that we're all upset about, whether you're an occupier or a teapartier, we're all upset that the government is failing us."

    -Charlie LeDuff, WJBK(Fox 2)/Detroit investigative reporter, speaking at the TEDx conference in Detroit, 10/2/13

  4. #124
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Per CNN, the weapons were owned by and registered to the mother.

    Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be.

  5. #125
    rodger dorn of predictions Discotrish's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    I'm watching CNN too. Did they just say that the older brother (Ryan) is divorced from someone who got shot at the school? I'm not sure I heard that right. And he isn't a suspect but is being questioned?

    Patti

  6. #126
    Unreachable Douche TacklingDummy's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Discotrish View Post
    I'm watching CNN too. Did they just say that the older brother (Ryan) is divorced from someone who got shot at the school? I'm not sure I heard that right. And he isn't a suspect but is being questioned?

    Patti
    maybe they want to know what the hell was wrong with his brother.


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  7. #127
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Discotrish View Post
    I'm watching CNN too. Did they just say that the older brother (Ryan) is divorced from someone who got shot at the school? I'm not sure I heard that right. And he isn't a suspect but is being questioned?

    Patti
    I didn't catch the first part, but he was definitely questioned. The brother is in Hoboken, NJ.

  8. #128
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Just guessing, but considering the type of new security system that supposedly was installed in the building, it sounds to me like the shooter killed his mother and used her ID card to get into the school.

  9. #129
    Registered User jimmifli's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by coastal View Post
    weak argument?

    do you know who the #1 employer is in the county that Columbine is in?

    the same company that makes ICBMs.

    Weak argument? Tenuous?

    dont be obtuse.
    I think the argument that the MIC & American culture are behind gun violence is a reasonable argument. But I think school shootings are a different kettle of fish and Moor didn't do a strong job of linking them.

    yes... but he ****ed the message up by lampooning Heston, a man clearly with failing faculties. Not just that, but he chose... Or his editor chose.... To run that piece at the conclusion the movie, thereby leaving that as the focus in the viewers mind.

    a poor and misguided choice IMO.
    10 days after those *******s murdered 13 and injured 21 Heston gave this speech:

    Thank you. Thank you very much. Good morning. I am very happy to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization.

    I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Or course, you have a right to be here. As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that.

    But it's fitting and proper that we should do this. Because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity.

    I have a message from the mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver. He sent me this and said don't come here, we don't want you here. I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing. But the mayor said don't come.

    I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing, don't come here. This is our country. As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.

    They say we'll create a media distraction, but we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction, but it's not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

    Still they say don't come here. I guess what saddens me the most is how that suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and 80 million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care. We don't care as much as they do, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

    Don't come here. That's offensive. It's also absurd because we live here. There are thousands of NRA members in Denver, and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado.

    NRA members labor in Denver's factories, they populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the Front Range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

    NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surly among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

    Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

    So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.

    One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile towards us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So, let us be mindful. The eyes of the nation are upon us today.
    He should have been asked those questions in the days leading up to the convention and the days following it. It's disappointing that it fell to Moore to ask such basic questions, but it did. And I think it was a wise choice for the film's end as I can think of no organization that has contributed to the American gun culture than the NRA.

    The fact that you fell for the persecuted innocent spin bull**** is your issue.
    Last edited by jimmifli; 12-14-2012 at 07:25 PM.

  10. #130
    Registered User jimmifli's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by imbondz View Post
    buuuulll*****
    He didn't kill children for fun. He killed children to be remembered.

  11. #131
    rodger dorn of predictions Discotrish's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Last night was Sandy Hook's "holiday concert."

    I wonder why the mother bought 3 guns. No mention of the dad -- wonder if he is still living.

    Patti

  12. #132
    Registered User cookie G's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmifli View Post
    Can you point me to the ones you think are strongest?
    http://www2.aap.org/advocacy/releases/jstmtevc.htm
    http://www.apa.org/research/action/nonviolent.aspx

    Psychologist Albert Bandura's early research revealed that children's aggressive acts were partly influenced by what they observed (Bandura, 1965). In general, the more aggressive the people or films that children observe, the more aggressive the children act. Learning by watching and imitating others, rather than through one's own personal experiences, is called social learning. Later research has shown that viewing violent acts on TV and in the movies affects people in other negative ways: (1) It decreases viewers' concerns about victims' suffering, (2) it decreases viewers' sensitivity to violent acts, and (3) it increases the likelihood that viewers will emulate the aggressive acts depicted in the show or movie. Young children are especially vulnerable to the effects observed violence.

    http://swacj.org/swjcj/archives/5.1/4%20Slotsve.pdf

    http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/fa...-2009/08AG.pdf

    Conclusion

    The media violence research literature is large, diverse, and consistent. True scientific experts on media violence effects have reached a consensus that, in our view, meets the criterion of a scientific fact as a conclusion held with a reasonable degree of scientific certainty. The key fact is that exposure to media violence causes an increase in the likelihood of aggressive and/or violent behavior in both short- and long-term contexts. There are, of course, disagreements about a
    number of more specific issues (e.g., who is most and least susceptible). Also, additional research is needed to answer a host of these more fine-grained scientific issues. But once one understands and resolves the issues of probabilistic causality (versus the old necessary and sufficient causality criteria), and of differences in language and question intent between the scientist role versus the legal expert role or the advisor to public policy and general public roles, then the potential of
    this vast body of research to have a positive impact on modern society becomes clearer and more easily accomplished.

  13. Post thanked by:

    jimmifli (12-14-2012)

  14. #133
    President of Eric Holder for President DraftBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldsie View Post
    To those that say we cant talk about policy.... why?
    Because we don't even know what happened yet. This is about so much more than the just gun control policy. We need to know what happened before we can begin to figure out what needs to be done.

    We went from a name being released earlier, to buzzfeed printing a facebook account, to the facebook account being wrong, to the name being released being false...do we really need to have the discussion about why we can't about policy yet? It's common sense why.
    COMING SOON...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Lecter
    We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!

  15. #134
    Registered User IlluminatusUIUC's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    1. NO massacre has been stopped by someone shooting the person doing the mass shooting.
    That's not accurate.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Co...The_shooting_2

    That said, the whole "If someone had a gun they would have shot him" argument assumes so much that it's almost entirely invalid.
    Billszone 2013 Prediction Contest winner!

  16. #135
    Not quite Best in the World.... ckg927's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    To kinda rebut cookie's post, I present to you a bit from Randy Cassingham(the guy who writes This is True, which I have subscribed to for well over a decade).

    He points out that the nastiest incident of school violence ever happened in an era when you COULDN'T blame Hollywood or video games...

    http://www.thisistrue.com/d-newtown

  17. #136
    Registered User jimmifli's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    I don't think this quite fits the definition of a study. But I recognize that they are at least credible sources.

    This is a summary of a study from 1965 with no information about the study provided, just a rehash of the conclusions. It's impossible to judge anything from this.

    This study asked 130 under grads to fill out a questionnaire about their TV viewing habits and attitude toward violence. It makes such wonderful conclusions like:

    Q6 As a child I watched television programs that were violent in nature (i.e., programs that
    contained fighting, blood, use of weapons).
    Q15 As a child I had thoughts of emulating behavior from a television program
    with an R2 of .337, so real strong. I guess this portion of the study proves that children that watched violence were more likely to think about violence.

    Other correlations link TV time to trouble in school. Of course there is no control for other factors, like the type of ****ty parents that would allow a child to watch 4 hours of violent TV per day. The portion of the study that tries to link violent TV viewing as a child to adult behaviour has such gems as:

    Q5 As a child I watched sporting events almost every day.
    Q30 I enjoy watching contact sports (such as boxing, football, and hockey)
    with a correlation of .526, because watching contact sports as an adult is a clear indicator of someone likely to act violently. But yes they point out that is a positive expression of violence, whatever the **** that means.

    How anyone can conclude anything from this is beyond me, it's total ****ing crap. 130 undergrads from texas answering a questionnaire on the first day of psych 101 before they pick up the syllabus. There is nothing here that even attempts to connect TV violence to actual criminal violence.



    This seems to be a chapter out of a text book and while it references a bunch of studies it isn't itself a study. A quick read through leaves me with the idea that the theory goes like this:

    Watching violence leads to:
    • acceptance of violence as a means to solving problems
    • desensitization
    • imitation
    • increased arousal


    While each of those things is provable as an individual point, putting them all together doesn't allow us to conclude that violent media leads to public mass shootings.

    Gil, I appreciate you posting these, but really I feel like I wasted a couple hours of my life reading them. It wasn't very persuasive.

  18. Post thanked by:

    jdaltroy5 (12-18-2012)

  19. #137
    Registered User YankeeInRaleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by imbondz View Post
    we all have free will until something horrible happens, then it's God's fault.

    Lets see if you're honest enough to answer this question,

    God is responsible for:

    A) Everything
    B) Nothing
    C) Some things, but not other things.

  20. #138
    rodger dorn of predictions Discotrish's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    CNN tonight is saying he "shot his way in." If that's the case, metal detectors at the door wouldn't have made a difference.

    Still wondering what the mother was doing buying those kinds of weapons.

    Patti

  21. Post thanked by:

    Blondie (12-14-2012)

  22. #139
    Bills' #1 Anti-Fan pmoon6's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    God bless the victims and their families.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    One Shot, One Kill

  23. #140
    It's soooo embarrassing YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Lunatic packing heat pulls off yet another mass killing... in an elementary schoo

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    To kinda rebut cookie's post, I present to you a bit from Randy Cassingham(the guy who writes This is True, which I have subscribed to for well over a decade).

    He points out that the nastiest incident of school violence ever happened in an era when you COULDN'T blame Hollywood or video games...

    http://www.thisistrue.com/d-newtown
    Or guns.

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