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Thread: Keep Gailey

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    I'm not surprised with the reaction really. Cinci fans were probably screaming for a new coach for 5 years. Marvin was crappy too, apparently he is good now.

    I don't doubt that Gailey should have done some things differently, but I also don't doubt that no matter what he did differently this season, we were always going to lose because you just don't win in this league without a QB unless you have the 2000 Ravens D or the 2010 Jets.

    I get that our record has been horrible with Gailey but I think we are putting way too much stock in the impact a coach has vs the impact a QB has.

    Just look at Denver. Manning made that team a 13-3 team. Not John Fox.

    If Gailey had either of the Mannings or even Schaub or Flacco we would not be in this position. Didn't everyone run Kevin Gilbride out of town because he was the worst OC ever? What now he is a genius suddenly?
    I should add that Marvin Lewis took the Bengals to the playoffs in his third season with the team with an 11-5 record. Add that to the fact that he did not have a losing record in his first two seasons with the team (8-8 both seasons) after taking over a team that was 2-14 the prior season.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    Yer saying you never had any hope or any positive feel that Fitz could take us to the playoffs? If not then congrats to you.
    Well, I HAD hope & a positive feel Fitz could take us to the playoffs, but that is LONG gone.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    Well its not like Buddy passed on a QB that was an obvious choice. Obviously he missed out on some diamonds in the rough like Dalton and Wilson and Kaepernick but those are toss up type players that had lots of question marks.

    Nix has made some encouraging comments though about how he plans to address it and I am interested to see what he comes up with.
    Doing nothing is an indictment of Buddy's enture tenure as GM. You have to take a chance to win and he has failed to even roll the dice. The fact that there now appear to be multiple non-first round QBs drafted in the past two seasons with starting potential are the nails in his coffin.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    I'm not surprised with the reaction really. Cinci fans were probably screaming for a new coach for 5 years. Marvin was crappy too, apparently he is good now.

    I don't doubt that Gailey should have done some things differently, but I also don't doubt that no matter what he did differently this season, we were always going to lose because you just don't win in this league without a QB unless you have the 2000 Ravens D or the 2010 Jets.

    I get that our record has been horrible with Gailey but I think we are putting way too much stock in the impact a coach has vs the impact a QB has.

    Just look at Denver. Manning made that team a 13-3 team. Not John Fox.

    If Gailey had either of the Mannings or even Schaub or Flacco we would not be in this position. Didn't everyone run Kevin Gilbride out of town because he was the worst OC ever? What now he is a genius suddenly?
    Marvin Lewis went 8-8 his first year with Cincinnati. That's top-notch compared to the crap we've got. Also went 11-5 his third year. How on earth is Gailey at all comparable to Lewis?

    Again, this whole idea that if Gailey has the right players, he'll be a great coach. No. Nearly every coach looks good with great players. Good coaching is different and you can see it even with bad players. Gailey is not a good coach.

    Good grief, your post is beyond ridiculous.
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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by EDS View Post
    Doing nothing is an indictment of Buddy's enture tenure as GM. You have to take a chance to win and he has failed to even roll the dice. The fact that there now appear to be multiple non-first round QBs drafted in the past two seasons with starting potential are the nails in his coffin.
    It is not that Buddy did nothing these past 3 years. He has added many good players & kept good players from leaving. I think at least a couple QB's he had his eye on were drafted before he anticipated they would be & I expect him to draft one high this year. If he fails to do that, I will be on board with getting rid of him.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by EDS View Post
    I should add that Marvin Lewis took the Bengals to the playoffs in his third season with the team with an 11-5 record. Add that to the fact that he did not have a losing record in his first two seasons with the team (8-8 both seasons) after taking over a team that was 2-14 the prior season.
    Didn't he have an in form Carson Palmer? Chad, Housh etc?

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    I'm not surprised with the reaction really. Cinci fans were probably screaming for a new coach for 5 years. Marvin was crappy too, apparently he is good now.
    Marvin is not good now. Folks still scream.

    He still can't tell time - ran them out of timeouts early in 2 close games this year.

    His record of successful challenges is 29 out of 66.

    He still believes that if a rookie doesn't look "good" in practice, he won't play. Finally started rookie Mohamed Sanu in game #10...garnered 4 tds in 3 games before breaking his foot in practice.

    Lately, he decided to start C Kyle Cook, returning from 8-game IR. Sat down rookie C Trevor Robinson. Result: Dalton sacked 12 times in 2 games, 14 yards team rushing against PIT.

    Gailey...
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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by psubills62 View Post
    Marvin Lewis went 8-8 his first year with Cincinnati. That's top-notch compared to the crap we've got. Also went 11-5 his third year. How on earth is Gailey at all comparable to Lewis?

    Again, this whole idea that if Gailey has the right players, he'll be a great coach. No. Nearly every coach looks good with great players. Good coaching is different and you can see it even with bad players. Gailey is not a good coach.

    Good grief, your post is beyond ridiculous.
    So a good coach takes bad players to the playoffs? When?

    Also, I believe Gailey brought along Johnson, Jackson, Spiller, Chandler, entire OL, Nelson and Jones. Of those players ONE is a first rounder. The rest are 7th round or undrafted.

    Is that not progressing and good coaching? When was the last time we had that many good players on offense?

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    So a good coach takes bad players to the playoffs? When?

    Also, I believe Gailey brought along Johnson, Jackson, Spiller, Chandler, entire OL, Nelson and Jones. Of those players ONE is a first rounder. The rest are 7th round or undrafted.

    Is that not progressing and good coaching? When was the last time we had that many good players on offense?
    Progress is only measured in one way: wins.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    So a good coach takes bad players to the playoffs? When?

    Also, I believe Gailey brought along Johnson, Jackson, Spiller, Chandler, entire OL, Nelson and Jones. Of those players ONE is a first rounder. The rest are 7th round or undrafted.

    Is that not progressing and good coaching? When was the last time we had that many good players on offense?
    Jackson, Levitre, Wood, and Johnson were already on the team when Gailey arrived. Jackson already had a 1000 yard season under his belt.

    And let's be clear here, we aren't talking about a dominant unit here. He's taken past "average" once, and that was in the lockout season.


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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Ultimately, I'd like to see Gailey stick around as a consultant to the new OC. He can scheme. He can draw up plays. He can find matchups and exploit them. He gets production out of a bunch of cast offs. From Monday to Saturday he's a pretty solid OC.

    But as a coach he's awful. He can't motivate. He has no interest in defense. He hasn't developed any younger coaches. And as a play caller he's awful. He brings very little to the organization.

    Ideally, he could contribute in a role like Dick Lebeau filled for us years ago on defense. He seems like a nice enough guy and the players like him.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Mahdi you'd have an argument if Gailey at least beat the teams he should've beaten . He didn't . He lost to the titans, Colts, fins. Teams that are in their first year and 2nd year of rebuilding and made Sanchez look like a franchise qb.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by better days View Post
    It is not that Buddy did nothing these past 3 years. He has added many good players & kept good players from leaving. I think at least a couple QB's he had his eye on were drafted before he anticipated they would be & I expect him to draft one high this year. If he fails to do that, I will be on board with getting rid of him.
    He did nothing to improve the most important position on the field that also happened to be one of the teams biggest weaknesses the day he took the GM job!!!!!!!! How is that not a complete fail given he has had three years to act? Look at the QBs who have come into the league in that time! Look at the impact of free agent signings like Payton Manning! Why not role the dice on a Nick Foles or Kirk Cousins? Both will be much better than Fitz and both could have easily been drafted, let alone Wilson, Dalton and Kaepernick. Neither Foles nor Cousins may end up as a long term answer but based on limited playing time they are likely to end up no worse then Fitz with more upside.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by psubills62 View Post
    Marvin Lewis went 8-8 his first year with Cincinnati. That's top-notch compared to the crap we've got. Also went 11-5 his third year. How on earth is Gailey at all comparable to Lewis?

    Again, this whole idea that if Gailey has the right players, he'll be a great coach. No. Nearly every coach looks good with great players. Good coaching is different and you can see it even with bad players. Gailey is not a good coach.

    Good grief, your post is beyond ridiculous.
    Lewis had better quarterbacking which always helps. And Kubiak is another one who was kept until the quarterback situation became good enough to win. He did not have a winning season in his first 3 years.
    Last edited by X-Era; 12-27-2012 at 02:50 PM.


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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by EDS View Post
    He did nothing to improve the most important position on the field that also happened to be one of the teams biggest weaknesses the day he took the GM job!!!!!!!! How is that not a complete fail given he has had three years to act? Look at the QBs who have come into the league in that time! Look at the impact of free agent signings like Payton Manning! Why not role the dice on a Nick Foles or Kirk Cousins? Both will be much better than Fitz and both could have easily been drafted, let alone Wilson, Dalton and Kaepernick. Neither Foles nor Cousins may end up as a long term answer but based on limited playing time they are likely to end up no worse then Fitz with more upside.
    Like I said, some QB's were drafted EARLIER than Gailey & most everyone else thought they would be. That list includeds Wilson, Dalton, Kaepernick, Cousins & Foles. Guys like Manning, Luck, RGIII, the Bills had no chance of getting. Like I said, if he fails to get us a GOOD QB this year, I will be on board with him being fired, but I expect him to get that QB this year, my hope is Mike Glennon.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    So a good coach takes bad players to the playoffs? When?

    Also, I believe Gailey brought along Johnson, Jackson, Spiller, Chandler, entire OL, Nelson and Jones. Of those players ONE is a first rounder. The rest are 7th round or undrafted.

    Is that not progressing and good coaching? When was the last time we had that many good players on offense?
    That's a nice little straw man you created. I said you can see good coaching even with bad players. Don't remember saying anything about playoffs.

    Chandler was a 4th rounder. Are you really giving Gailey credit for Fred Jackson? Levitre? Wood? These guys were all pretty good before Gailey even sniffed Buffalo air.

    You seem to have a different definition of "good player" than I do. You've named 11 players on our offense and called them all good. But our offense blows, and apparently the ONLY reason is Fitzpatrick? Yeah, OK. Maybe it's just me, but if Fitzpatrick is so bad, why is he even here? You can talk about him fooling people all you want - Gailey saw him in practices, training camp, games, etc. At some point a good coach would have figured out this wasn't the guy. Or at least helped him improve. Why has neither of these things happened?

    Talent is a lame excuse. The talent has been upgraded over the last three years. Not nearly as much as you seem to think it has been, but we've got two stars on the team that can be built around. Yet Gailey can only manage to eke out one more win than he did in 2010? Like I said, good coaching can be seen even despite poor talent. I don't see good coaching from Gailey with or without talent.

    By the way, you gave Peyton Manning as an example of a QB making the difference. He improved Denver from 8 wins to 12 or 13. Jim Harbaugh went to San Fran and improved them from 6 wins to 13 without a QB change. I don't think that using singular examples proves anything (especially when you pick out one of the best QB's to ever play the game), but since that's how you wanted to play, there's a piece of evidence for coaching.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Era View Post
    Lewis had better quarterbacking which always helps. And Kubiak is another one who was kept until the quarterback situation became good enough to win. He did not have a winning season in his first 3 years.
    The quarterbacking excuse is still a lame one. If Fitz isn't good, then either help him improve or find someone who is good. I know finding a QB isn't easy, but consider that they didn't even actually try to find someone. And Fitz has certainly not improved.

    Kubiak actually showed improvement. And coincidentally, Houston started doing well when they hired a really good defensive coach. Gailey simply hires his old buddies who suck. That doesn't exactly scream good coach to me. Kubiak's worst season was 6-10. Gailey's best season is 6-10. Again, not really comparable, IMO.

    I think people are over-analyzing. I watch the games and the team is just not coached well. Yes, I've seen some player development. Yes, I've seen one or two good games by Gailey. But unfortunately, you can't play the Chiefs every week. I've seen a lot, lot more bad than good. As much as I wish otherwise, Gailey is a bad coach. I gave him a chance and I don't see any reason why he should stay in Buffalo past next Monday.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    Marvin Lewis has had two really bad years in Cincy...........08, and 10' . Guess who his QB was for most of 08.....Fitz. You can't win with this guy. Probably unless you have an all time great head coach, and a team loaded with top notch talent on both sides of the ball, it's now been proven beyond a doubt that no team with out that will win with him, he is the biggest problem. Give Gailey a good QB and we would be better. How much better??? Who knows? I feel confident in saying probably at least .500 for the last two years........which is still not good enough. So IMHO they both should go.
    Last edited by warsawbassman; 12-27-2012 at 05:11 PM.

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    Re: Keep Gailey

    I'm not even going to bother going back and reading the entire thread, but Gailey has made more than enough mistakes in every facet of his responsibilities with zero positive results on the W-L record that cutting ties with him is the only answer at this point.
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    Re: Keep Gailey

    He too indecisive in crunch time and hasn't a clue about Defense.

    Plus we all missed the commitment ceremony where he married Fitz for life.

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