A clean slate

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

You mean the champs that got whooped on national TV last night?

By the potential 2013 Super Bowl Champions

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

[/B]Football Outsiders Almanac 2012.

Now obviously scheme and playcalling are very important, but you can't just look at a defense that posted some of the worst results in NFL history and say "It was Wannestadt. All Wannestadt." You can't just take a D that pissed off its best player, lost another one of its top players to injury, and replaced journeyman vets with either other journeyman vets or utterly raw newbies and expect a notable upgrade just because of Pettine.

That was a LONG TIME AGO. The game has CHANGED if you did not know.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: A clean slate

Not to mention Wanny's scheme worked in Miami because he knew he had better personnel than the other team. He didn't have to have exotic blitz packages. He had multiple pro bowlers at every level of the defense.

He could just line up his guys in the same spots every play and let them dominate the guy on the other side of the ball.

Now that's not to say that Pettine's schemes won't work, but it speaks volumes for the talent level on the defense.

Their job was to go out and beat their man and most of them couldn't do it.

Yes, Pettine's scheme has the potential to be better. I remain slightly skeptical that it's the best fit for our personnel, but at least its different and has had success this century.

But at the end of the day, players have to actually make plays. If you design an exotic blitz scheme and get a free rusher, only for Brady to calmly step aside while your LB goes sailing by like a bull at a rodeo, your scheme didn't do much for you. Ask Gailey. He got Stevie Johnson wide open all the time only for Fitz to Fitz the ball into the third row of seats or Johnson to drop it. It happens.

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That was a LONG TIME AGO. The game has CHANGED if you did not know.

I think I'm gonna take Bill Walsh's word for it over yours, but that's your decision.

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

Lmao- yeah no one dropped a pass or fumbled the ball or missed a block or missed a tackle or got burned in coverage or shanked a punt or missed a fg last year. None of that stuff that we all saw actually happened. It was all "scheme."

LMAO, NO Raven dropped a pass or fumbled the ball or missed a block or missed a tackle or got burned in coverage or shanked a punt or missed a fg last year.

The SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS were PERFECT ON EVERY PLAY! LMAO.

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

Yes, Pettine's scheme has the potential to be better. I remain slightly skeptical that it's the best fit for our personnel, but at least its different and has had success this century.

But at the end of the day, players have to actually make plays. If you design an exotic blitz scheme and get a free rusher, only for Brady to calmly step aside while your LB goes sailing by like a bull at a rodeo, your scheme didn't do much for you. Ask Gailey. He got Stevie Johnson wide open all the time only for Fitz to Fitz the ball into the third row of seats or Johnson to drop it. It happens.

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I think I'm gonna take Bill Walsh's word for it over yours, but that's your decision.

Yeah, Bill Walsh has watched a lot of football lately. LMAO.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: A clean slate

LMAO, NO Raven dropped a pass or fumbled the ball or missed a block or missed a tackle or got burned in coverage or shanked a punt or missed a fg last year.

The SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS were PERFECT ON EVERY PLAY! LMAO.

No, they weren't perfect on every play, but they dropped fewer balls, missed fewer tackles, threw fewer picks, and basically did a whole lot of things better than the Bills. Becuase they had better players at most positions, including two guys on D in the convo for greatest ever. FWIW, if they had one fewer dropped pass and missed FG in 2011, they might have been champs that year too.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: A clean slate

Yeah, Bill Walsh has watched a lot of football lately. LMAO.

So we're to the point now where Better Days is convinced he knows football better than Bill Walsh.

We've blown well past homer into the realm of full blown delusion here.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: A clean slate

The top end talent of the AFC is good (Denver, New England, Houston, Baltimore) but after that there are a bunch of average and crappy teams.

Baltimore isn't even a top end talent team anymore. I'd be more shocked if they made the playoffs than if they finished in last in the AFC North. New England is no longer a top end talent team, they're coming down to Earth just the gap between them and well, us, is still astronomical. Houston doesn't have a legitimate playoff caliber QB. Denver is the cream of the crop in the AFC and the only team that can compete against top level NFC teams.

It's a weak conference overall.

[OpIv37]

Re: A clean slate

So we're to the point now where Better Days is convinced he knows football better than Bill Walsh.

We've blown well past homer into the realm of full blown delusion here.

We've been in the realm of delusion for a while. I mean, he's trying to convince us that there were lots of good players on a 6-10 team.

[jdaltroy5]

Re: A clean slate

Baltimore isn't even a top end talent team anymore. I'd be more shocked if they made the playoffs than if they finished in last in the AFC North. New England is no longer a top end talent team, they're coming down to Earth just the gap between them and well, us, is still astronomical. Houston doesn't have a legitimate playoff caliber QB. Denver is the cream of the crop in the AFC and the only team that can compete against top level NFC teams.

It's a weak conference overall.

Baltimore are still the champs and are a very well coached team.

New England will ALWAYS be a contender as long as Brady is lining up under Center. I've been hearing that they're on the decline 2 Super Bowl appearances ago. I was kind of iffy about adding Houston, but they have such a good defense and OL that it was hard not to.

But I agree that it's a weak conference overall.

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

No, they weren't perfect on every play, but they dropped fewer balls, missed fewer tackles, threw fewer picks, and basically did a whole lot of things better than the Bills. Becuase they had better players at most positions, including two guys on D in the convo for greatest ever. FWIW, if they had one fewer dropped pass and missed FG in 2011, they might have been champs that year too.

Agreed MUCH BETTER talent on that team.

Also MUCH BETTER Coaching & scheme.....................a similar scheme the Bills will employ this year.

And Mark Kelso said with the Injuries, he will not be surprised if Pettine dials it up a notch Sunday to get to Brady rather than dial it back.

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

So we're to the point now where Better Days is convinced he knows football better than Bill Walsh.

We've blown well past homer into the realm of full blown delusion here.

NO, the article you linked is ANCIENT. Things have changed in the NFL since he wrote that & if Bill Walsh were alive today, I think he would realize that.

Or do you think Bill Walsh is as STUPID as Dave Wannstedt?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: A clean slate

Agreed MUCH BETTER talent on that team.

Also MUCH BETTER Coaching & scheme.....................a similar scheme the Bills will employ this year.

Just because you are running the same scheme doesn't meant you'll do as well as the team doing it with MUCH BETTER talent. Remember the words "No huddle offense led by Trent Edwards"?

And Mark Kelso said with the Injuries, he will not be surprised if Pettine dials it up a notch Sunday to get to Brady rather than dial it back.

Well duh. You want to sit back with McKelvin and Aaron Williams and Ron Brooks and wait for coverage sacks? Rushing Brady is our only chance.

NO, the article you linked is ANCIENT. Things have changed in the NFL since he wrote that & if Bill Walsh were alive today, I think he would realize that.

Some things have changed, some things haven't. For example, Marrone is supposedly going to run a lot of WCO offense concepts that Walsh invented IN ANCIENT TIMES, so clearly some concepts endure. FFS, the "new wave" in the NFL is the option, which teams have been running in college since the helmets were leather.

Or do you think Bill Walsh is as STUPID as Dave Wannstedt?

Of course not. The difference is that Wannestadt thought he had the personnel, and he clearly didn't.

The real issue is that an offense can cover up weaknesses because they have the initiative and the rules favor it. Defensive weakness can be targeted and exposed and ours were over and over again. There's only so much SCHEME and COACHING can do if your DB keeps missing jumpballs or your linebacker gets trucked.

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

Baltimore isn't even a top end talent team anymore. I'd be more shocked if they made the playoffs than if they finished in last in the AFC North. New England is no longer a top end talent team, they're coming down to Earth just the gap between them and well, us, is still astronomical. Houston doesn't have a legitimate playoff caliber QB. Denver is the cream of the crop in the AFC and the only team that can compete against top level NFC teams.

It's a weak conference overall.

Well, in the NFC, you have the 49ers, the Seahawks, Falcons and teams like the Giants, Packers, Cowboys, Saints, teams that are not what they used to be.


While the AFC has the Broncos, Bengals, Ravens, Texans, Colts, Steelers

Last year AFC: 24 NFC: 39 but the NFC racked up 16 wins against 4 teams that went 0-4 for the AFC. The Browns, Jags, Raiders & Chargers.

So I guess the bottom of the barrel was lower in the AFC. So from top to bottom, the NFC was stronger last year, but the AFC was stronger at the top.

[better days]

Re: A clean slate

Just because you are running the same scheme doesn't meant you'll do as well as the team doing it with MUCH BETTER talent. Remember the words "No huddle offense led by Trent Edwards"?

Agreed. But I am not comparing it to the Ravens, I am comparing it to last years Bills Coached by Wanny & his ancient terrible system.



Well duh. You want to sit back with McKelvin and Aaron Williams and Ron Brooks and wait for coverage sacks? Rushing Brady is our only chance.

Agreed.



Some things have changed, some things haven't. For example, Marrone is supposedly going to run a lot of WCO offense concepts that Walsh invented IN ANCIENT TIMES, so clearly some concepts endure. FFS, the "new wave" in the NFL is the option, which teams have been running in college since the helmets were leather.

What has changed is the rules & defenses have changed because of the NEW rules that give every advantage to the offense.



Of course not. The difference is that Wannestadt thought he had the personnel, and he clearly didn't.

The real issue is that an offense can cover up weaknesses because they have the initiative and the rules favor it. Defensive weakness can be targeted and exposed and ours were over and over again. There's only so much SCHEME and COACHING can do if your DB keeps missing jumpballs or your linebacker gets trucked.

I don't care who you put in that outdated defense Wanny ran last year. NOBODY would have had success in that defense.
And Wanny had to settle for a job as Special teams Coach this year because NOBODY would want him as a DC AGAIN.