Ravens and 'Franchise' QB money

[YardRat]

From Super Bowl champs, to watching the playoffs from home in one season.

Was it really a wise move to give Flacco all that money at the expense of losing a bevy of other players that helped contribute to their success last year?

[The Jokeman]

From Super Bowl champs, to watching the playoffs from home in one season.

Was it really a wise move to give Flacco all that money at the expense of losing a bevy of other players that helped contribute to their success last year?

Once again the first word in "franchise QB" is franchise. Build me a great team and you don't have to worry about your QB being great.

[Night Train]

Their OL sucked all year. Couldn't protect the immobile Flacco and the running game was non-existent.

Secondary was bad. Many players they expected to step forward...didn't.

[Mr. Pink]

Without Flacco that's a 3 win football team.

They put almost every game on his shoulders and his shoulders alone. Their D is nowhere near as good as it was last year for obvious reasons and they completely abandoned Ray Rice in their offense. The game against the Bills alone should prove that one.

[YardRat]

Once again the first word in "franchise QB" is franchise. Build me a great team and you don't have to worry about your QB being great.

They had a great team last year. And then they paid Flacco.

Their OL sucked all year. Couldn't protect the immobile Flacco and the running game was non-existent.

Secondary was bad. Many players they expected to step forward...didn't.

They could have kept some of the players that stepped up last year.

Without Flacco that's a 3 win football team.

They put almost every game on his shoulders and his shoulders alone. Their D is nowhere near as good as it was last year for obvious reasons and they completely abandoned Ray Rice in their offense. The game against the Bills alone should prove that one.

Pure speculation on your part. Of course the D is worse, they had to let their young up-and-comers go.

[Mr. Pink]

They had a great team last year. And then they paid Flacco.



They could have kept some of the players that stepped up last year.



Pure speculation on your part. Of course the D is worse, they had to let their young up-and-comers go.

What speculation?

Flacco had 600 pass attempts on the year. They were like 29th in rushing and averaged like 3 ypc.

Put a bad QB on that team and see how they would do. Wait, I can easily draw that comparison from a team in the same division.

The Cleveland Browns defensively were just as good as the Ravens, couldn't run and threw the ball 600+ times. They went 4-12.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Flacco's cap number for 2013 was like $7 mil I think. That's pretty good for a QB like him. There were other reasons that this team was in financial hell this year. As for the future when his cap number rises, who knows.

[cookie G]

The Ravens went to the playoffs once in the prior 4 years that Flacco got there.

5 straight appearances with him, including 3 conference championship games and a SB victory.

We got McLovin..

[Mace]

From Super Bowl champs, to watching the playoffs from home in one season.

Was it really a wise move to give Flacco all that money at the expense of losing a bevy of other players that helped contribute to their success last year?

I really don't think so. He has his moments but Flacco is not top shelf. Most of his game stats speak for themselves. And that salary cost them players they couldn't keep.

But for all the lip service big bucks QB's give to the concept of team, they worry more about salary structure and peer pressure than regulating themselves. I think we're entering the era of anointed franchise QB's crippling their teams. They'll learn eventually. They never see the total, they can't be idiots. They make themselves expendable earlier, renegotiate the deals endlessly, and ensure the decline of their place in history without a team around them. It's a good era to be an agent though.

I'm still ever waiting for one great guy to stand up and say, "hey, I have plenty of money, I want them to spend it on making a team around me, so I'm going to play for gatorade and make some other people happy."

Is Flacco all that ? Good luck to Baltimore in finding out. Damned if the team pays and damned if they don't though, same for the QB's evidently.

[YardRat]

What speculation?

Flacco had 600 pass attempts on the year. They were like 29th in rushing and averaged like 3 ypc.

Put a bad QB on that team and see how they would do. Wait, I can easily draw that comparison from a team in the same division.

The Cleveland Browns defensively were just as good as the Ravens, couldn't run and threw the ball 600+ times. They went 4-12.

You do understand that you are citing stats from this season, after Flacco was signed and others let go, correct? That's kind of the point, you know.

Maybe a 'worse' QB wouldn't have thrown five picks against Buffalo.

[Mr. Pink]

You do understand that you are citing stats from this season, after Flacco was signed and others let go, correct? That's kind of the point, you know.

Maybe a 'worse' QB wouldn't have thrown five picks against Buffalo.

The point is he carried that team to 8-8 and a worse QB would have them at around the Browns level.

Flacco isn't Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady but he ain't a bottom tier QB either. He's somewhere in that second tier with guys like Wilson, Kaepernick, Dalton.

[Night Train]

Outside of Boldin, who did they lose ?

Lewis and Reed were done, so they had to replace them.

[YardRat]

Outside of Boldin, who did they lose ?

Lewis and Reed were done, so they had to replace them.

Boldin, Kruger, Ellerbe, Cary Williams, Bernard Pollard, just to name a few.

When you have to let go your reception leader, your sack leader, your eventual replacements for Reed and Lewis, and basically 3/4 of your starting secondary (not to mention a vet C, a FB, NT and G depth, and another couple of LBers) you're pretty much gutting your future to pay one guy.

[Mr. Pink]

Apparently the argument here is it is better to have a crappy QB and go 4-12 than a good QB and go 8-8 because you can have better complimentary pieces.

That's the difference between the 2013 Ravens and Browns who played basically the same schedule.

[BillsFever21]

They also lost Ellerbe and Kruger who played big roles in their defense. Ray Rice was useless this season. They don't have many weapons on offense.

Flacco isn't elite and he doesn't look flashy but he helped take the team to 3 AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl victory in his first 5 seasons. He's towards the top of the 2nd tier of QB's in the league.

What option did the Ravens have? They just won a Super Bowl and Flacco played a big part in it. There was no way they were going to let him go and start over again at the most important position in the NFL. What else should they have done? Sign Kevin Kolb? Draft Geno Smith with their first round pick or one of the other rookies this season?

Their defense is still decent and they can rebuild it fairly soon. They're not the first SB winners to struggle the year after and it's not like they totally went in the tank either. Had they let Flacco leave and brought in a veteran scrub or drafted one of these rookies they would've been lucky to win 5 games this season and be screwed for next year too. I'm sure they didn't want to pay him that much but it was hard not to after all the games they won with him and coming off a Super Bowl run.

[YardRat]

The point is he carried that team to 8-8 and a worse QB would have them at around the Browns level.

Flacco isn't Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady but he ain't a bottom tier QB either. He's somewhere in that second tier with guys like Wilson, Kaepernick, Dalton.

Smart move. The team can A-keep the core and future of a reigning champion, or B-gut the team and hope your 'franchise' QB that you just handed over the keys to the Brinks truck to can 'carry' you to a .500 record and completely missing the playoffs. Ozzie Newsome is a genius.

[BillsFever21]

Apparently the argument here is it is better to have a crappy QB and go 4-12 than a good QB and go 8-8 because you can have better complimentary pieces.

That's the difference between the 2013 Ravens and Browns who played basically the same schedule.

These are many of the same people who are still buying into the Bills strategy for most of the past decade which hasn't worked. It's better to sign a bunch of average players for 3-5 million a year then to fork out the money for your most important players and stars. They would rather have 3 average players that doesn't make a huge impact for a total of 11 million instead of a star player for 8 million and fill in the average players with good drafting.

[YardRat]

They also lost Ellerbe and Kruger who played big roles in their defense. Ray Rice was useless this season. They don't have many weapons on offense.

Flacco isn't elite and he doesn't look flashy but he helped take the team to 3 AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl victory in his first 5 seasons. He's towards the top of the 2nd tier of QB's in the league.

What option did the Ravens have? They just won a Super Bowl and Flacco played a big part in it. There was no way they were going to let him go and start over again at the most important position in the NFL. What else should they have done? Sign Kevin Kolb? Draft Geno Smith with their first round pick or one of the other rookies this season?

Their defense is still decent and they can rebuild it fairly soon. They're not the first SB winners to struggle the year after and it's not like they totally went in the tank either. Had they let Flacco leave and brought in a veteran scrub or drafted one of these rookies they would've been lucky to win 5 games this season and be screwed for next year too. I'm sure they didn't want to pay him that much but it was hard not to after all the games they won with him and coming off a Super Bowl run.

Won't argue against most of that, but let's remember this is a team that also won a Super Bowl with Trent Freakin' Dilfer at QB. If anybody should know how important it is to have talent all along the roster and quality depth, not just at QB, it's Newsome.

[BillsFever21]

Won't argue against most of that, but let's remember this is a team that also won a Super Bowl with Trent Freakin' Dilfer at QB. If anybody should know how important it is to have talent all along the roster and quality depth, not just at QB, it's Newsome.

That was over a decade ago and the NFL is a totally different league since then. It's not like the Trent Dilfer types win them on a regular basis. That is definitely the exception to the rule and they had one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL that season. Their defense scored as many points as their offense in many games.

Good luck winning the Super Bowl again without a good QB. It happened once a dozen years ago so that means it can easily be done. All of the Super Bowl winners lately had good QB's. The Packers were 5-2 with Rodgers and they lost 5 of the 7 games he was out after that. That's what a QB means to a team in today's NFL. Flacco is no Aaron Rodgers but it's a perfect example.

The Colts were a 2 win team the year Manning was injured. The following year they draft Andrew Luck and they are automatically a 10+ win team and in the playoffs the following two years. Without a good QB they would be a 4 win team.

[cookie G]

These are many of the same people who are still buying into the Bills strategy for most of the past decade which hasn't worked. It's better to sign a bunch of average players for 3-5 million a year then to fork out the money for your most important players and stars. They would rather have 3 average players that doesn't make a huge impact for a total of 11 million instead of a star player for 8 million and fill in the average players with good drafting.

Well, I agee with most of this...surprise surprise.

Only a fool would compare the "impact" of a franchise QB to a player who gets 4 ints per year, and little else.

Absolutely...its been a failed strategy for a decade.

Time to change things.

Invest the money in the O.
Keep looking for the franchise QB.