Jim Kelly to Bid on Bills with D Trump

[WagonCircler]

Yea that's kinda my point.



Really? Banks don't just give out billion dollar loans to people? Well I'll be damned...



The Cowboys are also worth more than double the Bills...so maybe, just maybe he has more revenue to play with?

Do you have any actual numbers or data to add to the discussion?

Net worth is not cash flow, but even then, you make MY point. Jones has an even lower net worth, and he had a FAR lower net worth when he bought the team, but somehow he was able to manage to buy the Cowboys and build the Taj Mahal of NFL stadiums.

Your contention that $2.7 BIL net worth for an owner is insufficient to buy the Bills is asinine. 75% of the owners in the NFL aren't even close to that level, and even if they were, you act as if it's a cash transaction, which is even more ridiculous.

You were talking out of your ass and you were called on it. Just move on. You're making it worse.

[DraftBoy]

Net worth is not cash flow, but even then, you make MY point. Jones has an even lower net worth, and he had a FAR lower net worth when he bought the team, but somehow he was able to manage to buy the Cowboys and build the Taj Mahal of NFL stadiums.

Your contention that $2.7 BIL net worth for an owner is insufficient to buy the Bills is asinine. 75% of the owners in the NFL aren't even close to that level, and even if they were, you act as if it's a cash transaction, which is even more ridiculous.

You were talking out of your ass and you were called on it. Just move on. You're making it worse.

That's actually not what I said, but its nice to know you're making an attempt to pay attention.

Trap hit the nail on the head, the NFL has previously said that they want owners to buy teams debt free. It's also well known that the owner is going to have build a new stadium (be it in Buffalo, LA, San Antonio, wherever). So this isn't just about straight out buying the team, its about buying the team and building the stadium.

How much in tax funds is the new owner going to get from NYS? How much financing with the NFL allow considering their previously stated preference on owners being debt free? Does that even apply to stadiums?

All questions we don't have actual answers to yet.

Also where the hell are my crayons and drawings?

[wolfpack]

[WagonCircler]

That's actually not what I said, but its nice to know you're making an attempt to pay attention.

Trap hit the nail on the head, the NFL has previously said that they want owners to buy teams debt free. It's also well known that the owner is going to have build a new stadium (be it in Buffalo, LA, San Antonio, wherever). So this isn't just about straight out buying the team, its about buying the team and building the stadium.

How much in tax funds is the new owner going to get from NYS? How much financing with the NFL allow considering their previously stated preference on owners being debt free? Does that even apply to stadiums?

All questions we don't have actual answers to yet.

Also where the hell are my crayons and drawings?

Have you looked at the net worth of NFL owners? The picture you're drawing with those crayons should include unicorns in it.

There's only one Paul Allen among them.

You're suggesting, ridiculously, that someone, anyone, is going to pony up $2 BIL in cash. NOBODY is going to do that.

This being NY State, not exactly shy about spending the taxpayer dollars, I'd guess at least $600 MIL, possibly more. This is a political issue for the Governor and for Schumer and others. They are going to get VERY creative when it comes to keeping the state's only NFL team in the state.

And let's not forget, as everyone always seems to, that whatever the state spends, for once they're spending on something that actually generates revenue. The stadium's lease payments paid for Rich/Ralph Stadium several times over. That makes it easier to sell, not that NY legislators ever met a spending bill they didn't like. Ever hear of "The Buffalo Billion"?

Stadium projects are a HUGE opportunity for politicians and their cronies to skim hundreds of millions. You're naive if you don't think they're licking their chops over the potential for a payday.

And, like Yard mentioned, the NFL is looking to assist in a big way with matching funds and financing.

Face it, your contention that a new owner needs to have $2 BIL in walking around money to throw at the team is absurd.

[DraftBoy]

Have you looked at the net worth of NFL owners? The picture you're drawing with those crayons should include unicorns in it.

There's only one Paul Allen among them.

You're suggesting, ridiculously, that someone, anyone, is going to pony up $2 BIL in cash. NOBODY is going to do that.

This being NY State, not exactly shy about spending the taxpayer dollars, I'd guess at least $600 MIL, possibly more. This is a political issue for the Governor and for Schumer and others. They are going to get VERY creative when it comes to keeping the state's only NFL team in the state.

And let's not forget, as everyone always seems to, that whatever the state spends, for once they're spending on something that actually generates revenue. The stadium's lease payments paid for Rich/Ralph Stadium several times over. That makes it easier to sell, not that NY legislators ever met a spending bill they didn't like. Ever hear of "The Buffalo Billion"?

Stadium projects are a HUGE opportunity for politicians and their cronies to skim hundreds of millions. You're naive if you don't think they're licking their chops over the potential for a payday.

And, like Yard mentioned, the NFL is looking to assist in a big way with matching funds and financing.

Face it, your contention that a new owner needs to have $2 BIL in walking around money to throw at the team is absurd.

I have but what I couldn't recall was the last time an owner had to buy a team and develop a new stadium all at once. I know it probably has happened just can't recall who was the last one or how the deal was put together. Do you recall?

I never said or suggested that, I simply asked the question openly about it.

While I agree NYS enjoys spending all of your money, this isn't NYC. $600 Million is a huge ask.

You're assuming this would be another lease deal, I'm not sure the new owner wants that. Down here Blank specifically wanted out of that deal even with some taxpayer funds included. He will own the new stadium, and the land around it for parking. I don't imagine the new Bills owner would expect or want less. Now how much tax revenue the local and state makes could certainly refund some of the tax money spent, but how long will that take?

This is politics after all...

The NFL has made that overture, but I havent see any numbers where they have matched a certain amount or percentage, have you?

I never said that either.

[trapezeus]

That's actually not what I said, but its nice to know you're making an attempt to pay attention.

Trap hit the nail on the head, the NFL has previously said that they want owners to buy teams debt free. It's also well known that the owner is going to have build a new stadium (be it in Buffalo, LA, San Antonio, wherever). So this isn't just about straight out buying the team, its about buying the team and building the stadium.

How much in tax funds is the new owner going to get from NYS? How much financing with the NFL allow considering their previously stated preference on owners being debt free? Does that even apply to stadiums?

All questions we don't have actual answers to yet.

Also where the hell are my crayons and drawings?

Again, Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys, a team that wasn't doing so well and a league that had not exploded in value like it has in the last 10years, in 1989. He reportedly bought the team for between $140-150MM. Single buyer, for a team that truly sucked in 1988 and was losing money.

So those were different times, but the guy had money to throw around...and he did.

Also, NYS is more inclined to help build a stadium to keep its only team. it also put some sweet deals to ralph and co to help mitigate losses if a fan base doesn't show up or are in it just for the tailgate.

The rumors are that there are 10 legitimate offers, including trump. i really think if the completion by Oct 2014 is happening, it's more likely to go to the Jacobs or an interest within buffalo. NYS has an interest in getting a long term owner dedicated to the area. while jacobs might not represent a big spender, he would ensure the team be in buffalo past his lifetime with a long line of descendents and deep pockets. That gets NYS more comfortable chipping in on a stadium than giving it to a speculator like Trump.

even if you read dan kelly's comments in recent articles, the kelly's are taking offers. they aren't in bed with anyone yet.

[DraftBoy]

Again, Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys, a team that wasn't doing so well and a league that had not exploded in value like it has in the last 10years, in 1989. He reportedly bought the team for between $140-150MM. Single buyer, for a team that truly sucked in 1988 and was losing money.

So those were different times, but the guy had money to throw around...and he did.

Also, NYS is more inclined to help build a stadium to keep its only team. it also put some sweet deals to ralph and co to help mitigate losses if a fan base doesn't show up or are in it just for the tailgate.

The rumors are that there are 10 legitimate offers, including trump. i really think if the completion by Oct 2014 is happening, it's more likely to go to the Jacobs or an interest within buffalo. NYS has an interest in getting a long term owner dedicated to the area. while jacobs might not represent a big spender, he would ensure the team be in buffalo past his lifetime with a long line of descendents and deep pockets. That gets NYS more comfortable chipping in on a stadium than giving it to a speculator like Trump.

even if you read dan kelly's comments in recent articles, the kelly's are taking offers. they aren't in bed with anyone yet.

I agree I think local gets NYS more into gear, I just think asking for over 50% of the stadium to be paid for by the taxpayers is a huge ask. We shall see though.

10 legitimate offers? That raises the question about who we don't know about that could be interested.

1. Trump
2. Jacobs
3. Rich
4. Pegula
5. Toronto Group (Including Bon Jovi)
6. LA Group

Who am I missing thus far?

[trapezeus]

I agree I think local gets NYS more into gear, I just think asking for over 50% of the stadium to be paid for by the taxpayers is a huge ask. We shall see though.

10 legitimate offers? That raises the question about who we don't know about that could be interested.

1. Trump
2. Jacobs
3. Rich
4. Pegula
5. Toronto Group (Including Bon Jovi)
6. LA Group

Who am I missing thus far?

Gundlach. i think that's his last name. buffalo born, lives in LA. he's a fund manager and has been connected with buying the bills before. he is on record as saying he wouldn't think of buying the bills as an investment as its more than that to him.

i think there are also two competing LA group's as they have two competing stadiums.
but i really think LA is not something the NFL wants. they love having that as a trump card on San Diego and oakland. and the costs of moving are much less.

[TedMock]

Gundlach. i think that's his last name. buffalo born, lives in LA. he's a fund manager and has been connected with buying the bills before. he is on record as saying he wouldn't think of buying the bills as an investment as its more than that to him.

i think there are also two competing LA group's as they have two competing stadiums.
but i really think LA is not something the NFL wants. they love having that as a trump card on San Diego and oakland. and the costs of moving are much less.

Jeffrey Gundlach. Very bright fixed income manager. He ran the total return bond fund for TCW and was great at it. He started his own firm a couple years ago. Not sure what he's worth after that.

[better days]

Jeffrey Gundlach. Very bright fixed income manager. He ran the total return bond fund for TCW and was great at it. He started his own firm a couple years ago. Not sure what he's worth after that.

Is Gundlach part of the Bills fan group that is starting a fund for a new Stadium for the Bills?

[Fletch]

Is Gundlach part of the Bills fan group that is starting a fund for a new Stadium for the Bills?

LOL ... what are they going to do, hold a baked sale.

WNY cannot possibly compete for a new stadium with the likes of Toronto.

[Fletch]

Again, Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys, a team that wasn't doing so well and a league that had not exploded in value like it has in the last 10years, in 1989. He reportedly bought the team for between $140-150MM. Single buyer, for a team that truly sucked in 1988 and was losing money.

So those were different times, but the guy had money to throw around...and he did.

Also, NYS is more inclined to help build a stadium to keep its only team. it also put some sweet deals to ralph and co to help mitigate losses if a fan base doesn't show up or are in it just for the tailgate.

The rumors are that there are 10 legitimate offers, including trump. i really think if the completion by Oct 2014 is happening, it's more likely to go to the Jacobs or an interest within buffalo. NYS has an interest in getting a long term owner dedicated to the area. while jacobs might not represent a big spender, he would ensure the team be in buffalo past his lifetime with a long line of descendents and deep pockets. That gets NYS more comfortable chipping in on a stadium than giving it to a speculator like Trump.

even if you read dan kelly's comments in recent articles, the kelly's are taking offers. they aren't in bed with anyone yet.

Why do some keep mentioning the Jacobs? He's already come out and said he's not interested.

Also, there can be all kinds of interest in our region, but the reality of it is that 75% of the owners have to approve it. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, ... I know, it's hard to do because most of us don't think about money over people constantly like they do, but that's their reality. They don't give a rat's ass about the fans, the region, nostalgia, or anything non-monetary re: the Bills staying in "Buffalo."

All they care about is money lining their pockets, and if you ask me, it's going to be a no-brainer for them to approve a sale to a Canadian owner/group with intent on putting the team across the border as the NFL's first international team.

Think about it, even for Goodell, "Mr. Buffalo," his legacy would be huge if that were to happen on his watch and he knows it.

Again, they're all saying the right things now, but don't believe a word of it, as usual, follow the money. Unfortunately that money is not in Buffalo or WNY.

It's going to make sense for the NFL to buy out the clause preventing the Bills from leaving, to one extent or another, and after a year, two, or three, but it will make sense for the league eventually.

It's sad, very sad, but Buffalo is not an NFL city by modern day standards. There's a much larger population and financial center base just over the border not even an hour from Buffalo.

[DraftBoy]

Jeffrey Gundlach. Very bright fixed income manager. He ran the total return bond fund for TCW and was great at it. He started his own firm a couple years ago. Not sure what he's worth after that.

celebritynetworth.com (no idea how accurate the site is) says he's worth about a billion dollars.

[better days]

LOL ... what are they going to do, hold a baked sale.

WNY cannot possibly compete for a new stadium with the likes of Toronto.

BILLS FANS are going to donate money for the new Stadium.

I believe $100 Million dollars the the amount they expect to collect.

Toronto has no need for a Stadium because the Bills will not be moving there. EVER.

[better days]

Why do some keep mentioning the Jacobs? He's already come out and said he's not interested.

Also, there can be all kinds of interest in our region, but the reality of it is that 75% of the owners have to approve it. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, ... I know, it's hard to do because most of us don't think about money over people constantly like they do, but that's their reality. They don't give a rat's ass about the fans, the region, nostalgia, or anything non-monetary re: the Bills staying in "Buffalo."

All they care about is money lining their pockets, and if you ask me, it's going to be a no-brainer for them to approve a sale to a Canadian owner/group with intent on putting the team across the border as the NFL's first international team.

Think about it, even for Goodell, "Mr. Buffalo," his legacy would be huge if that were to happen on his watch and he knows it.

Again, they're all saying the right things now, but don't believe a word of it, as usual, follow the money. Unfortunately that money is not in Buffalo or WNY.

It's going to make sense for the NFL to buy out the clause preventing the Bills from leaving, to one extent or another, and after a year, two, or three, but it will make sense for the league eventually.

It's sad, very sad, but Buffalo is not an NFL city by modern day standards. There's a much larger population and financial center base just over the border not even an hour from Buffalo.

Jacobs said he is not going to sell the Bruins to buy the Bills.

Jacobs has not said anything about his son buying the Bills or not.

Since that is the case, it is possible someone in the Jacobs family buys the Bills.

[YardRat]

The NFL has a fund, so they will definitely pony up for an existing team. $150mil. The New jersey teams got $300mil, because both were involved.

[trapezeus]

Why do some keep mentioning the Jacobs? He's already come out and said he's not interested.

Also, there can be all kinds of interest in our region, but the reality of it is that 75% of the owners have to approve it. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, ... I know, it's hard to do because most of us don't think about money over people constantly like they do, but that's their reality. They don't give a rat's ass about the fans, the region, nostalgia, or anything non-monetary re: the Bills staying in "Buffalo."

All they care about is money lining their pockets, and if you ask me, it's going to be a no-brainer for them to approve a sale to a Canadian owner/group with intent on putting the team across the border as the NFL's first international team.

Think about it, even for Goodell, "Mr. Buffalo," his legacy would be huge if that were to happen on his watch and he knows it.

Again, they're all saying the right things now, but don't believe a word of it, as usual, follow the money. Unfortunately that money is not in Buffalo or WNY.

It's going to make sense for the NFL to buy out the clause preventing the Bills from leaving, to one extent or another, and after a year, two, or three, but it will make sense for the league eventually.

It's sad, very sad, but Buffalo is not an NFL city by modern day standards. There's a much larger population and financial center base just over the border not even an hour from Buffalo.

it is about the money and why they should stay....a cross country move was unusually expensive as the NFL found out moving the rams out of LA. So much so they didn't split them in equally on expansion fees.

The NFL does care about the league division set up. they more or less have the geographies the way they want them. moving a bills team to the west coast is a killer on the LA team. With oakland and SD in easy to break leases and have less impact on division set ups, You can pretty much kill LA. Also add into the fact the stadium is going no where.

So the next option is to toronto. i don't think that threat is dead, but i think the CFL has some regulatory sway in canada and makes it hard for a full time team to be there. a future owner could argue that a full time team in canada would get better results than the canada series did, since there isn't an arbitrage for the fan.However, that's a tough sell when you don't have an NFL stadium. Additionally, while the canadian dollar has improved over the last 10 years and traders nearly on par or above the US dollar, that isn't a guarantee. So do you want to move a team to canada to find out that the over leveraged canadian market explodes and leaves your franchise without fans, with no support?

I don't think the NFL is chasing the money as much as some people think. I think they know if they get a deep pocket owner in, and get him to stay due to NYS contributions, they have a very steady history of making money in Buffalo. Giving up that money and the state money is a big gamble that doesn't necessarily pay off.

as for jacobs, the public comment was he isn't interested. the off the record comments are that his group with his sons are exploring the idea. it's obviously good business in a long term buyout to say, "i'm committed to this thing i am involved with" than to say, "yeah, i may be leaving this for something else".

until an IB is selected to do the valuation of the team, i don't we hear more than the rumors, but i think once that work is done, it will be pretty simple for the sale to be made and the NFL to vote.

I really think Buffalo has a good case for keeping the team. Along with a region that heavily contributes to the very viewership that the NFL makes their cash cow tv contracts on, there is a reason to keep the team in buffalo. We just have to hope that narrative is expressed clearly.

[Figster]

hahaha, thats hilarious

[kishoph]

Trump seems dedicated to keeping the Bills in Buffalo & will have Jimbo in there with him, that's quite a 1/2 punch.

I'm not sure that Kelly and Trump are on the same "team", the wording makes it almost seem like it, but I have seen nothing that says Kelly and Trump are joining together to buy the team. Kelly may have a different backer.

[Bill Cody]

BILLS FANS are going to donate money for the new Stadium.

I believe $100 Million dollars the the amount they expect to collect.

Toronto has no need for a Stadium because the Bills will not be moving there. EVER.

when pigs fly they'll raise 100m.