A QUESTION FOR THE PESSIMISTS

[BuffaloRedleg]

Can't I just be a Bills fan and not be labeled either way? Sometimes I see red sometimes I see green. Sometimes they piss me off, sometimes I just enjoy being a part of the Bills fan community.

Some of you guys just love labels. Get your own identity for Christ's sake.

[DesertFox24]

People willing to say ej is a bust and cannot get better really have no clue. Plenty of qbs have got better and plenty have not. To blindly say ej will not get better after 9.5 games is just ignorant.

That being said if no progress is made for ej then we need to draft a guy in round 1.

I don't expect top 10 qb stats but if ej is a franchise qb he will be more consistent way less peaks and valleys and better accuracy on his short throws.

As for he not having a long ball. He demonstrated that a bunch after the steeler game

[WagonCircler]

EJ holds the entire offense back. He can't hit a WR more than 3 yards downfield, he's no vertical threat, teams load up the box so the running game isn't as good as it should be. But maybe after another year of more of the same, the organization will realize their mistake and try again.

I'm telling you, his game is Trent Edwards Jr. (Except that I like EJ, personally).

[WagonCircler]

People willing to say ej is a bust and cannot get better really have no clue. Plenty of qbs have got better and plenty have not. To blindly say ej will not get better after 9.5 games is just ignorant.

That being said if no progress is made for ej then we need to draft a guy in round 1.

I don't expect top 10 qb stats but if ej is a franchise qb he will be more consistent way less peaks and valleys and better accuracy on his short throws.

As for he not having a long ball. He demonstrated that a bunch after the steeler game

His long ball is wildly inconsistent. And your comments about other QBs getting better means absolutely nothing. 100x more QBs DIDN'T get better.

EJs mechanical problems should/would have been fixed long ago. These are not typical rookie problems that he's having. Those problems are typically holding the ball too long, making bad reads, panicking on throws, slowing the game down.

EJs problems are the kind that get fixed early on in college, in not high school. And he still carries the ball like a loaf of bread. He has poor muscle memory.

He plays in a simple Offense that's designed so he doesn't have to think much. If he's always having to think about his mechanics, he's always going to have to play in a simple, predictable Offense. That's game over.

[The Popcorn]

The Bills are also the same team that chose Mike Williams, Walt Patulski, Losman, McCargo, Perry Tuttle, Erik Flowers, etc, etc... in the first round.

You're willing to wait another year. I get it. I'm not.

Same team but different decision maker.

Then you're back to square 1 every year if a QB doesn't pan out in his rookie year.

[Skooby]

Drafting EJ was out of Left Field, I still don't understand it or why we did it ?

[Mr. Pink]

With a real QB this would have been a borderline playoff team last year.

[Skooby]

With a real QB this would have been a borderline playoff team last year.

It's the position we've missing out for many years now, hiding it is just silly.

[OpIv37]

OK, so why do all of you pessimists think the Bills are going to have a losing record next year?

A) Because you have no faith in Whaley & think he will blow his first draft?

B) Because you have no faith in Marrone & his staff?

C) Because you have no faith in EJ to stay healthy & develop?

D) Because you think the entire Offense SUCKS?

E) Because you think the entire Defense SUCKS?

F) Because after 14 years of losing, you are AFRAID to think the Bills may finally be on the upswing?

F) it's not fear. It's more of a "fool me once" kind of thing. This is at least the 4th time in that 14 year span that you homers have been trying to convince us (and yourselves) that the team is on the upswing. It has yet to happen. At this point, it's simply foolish to feel any better than "cautiously optimistic" about this team because they haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.

As far as the rest of it, you're making it more complicated than it is. On O we added Mike Williams. On D we added Spikes but lost Byrd, and we have yet ANOTHER new D for the players to learn- 3rd system in 3 years.

Do you REALLY think Mike Williams, Spikes and whatever rookies we get is enough to go from 6-10 to playoffs, especially while losing Byrd and learning a new D? Please.

This team will go nowhere until we can win in the div. We need to close the talent gap between us and the Patriots. They lost Spikes but gained Revis- net gain. We lost Byrd and gained Spikes- net loss. I don't think it's a huge gain or loss either way but we certainly didn't close the gap on D. Their O is the same and we only added Mike Williams. Net gain for us but again, not even close to enough to close the talent gap.

It's that simple.

[better days]

F) it's not fear. It's more of a "fool me once" kind of thing. This is at least the 4th time in that 14 year span that you homers have been trying to convince us (and yourselves) that the team is on the upswing. It has yet to happen. At this point, it's simply foolish to feel any better than "cautiously optimistic" about this team because they haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.

As far as the rest of it, you're making it more complicated than it is. On O we added Mike Williams. On D we added Spikes but lost Byrd, and we have yet ANOTHER new D for the players to learn- 3rd system in 3 years.

Do you REALLY think Mike Williams, Spikes and whatever rookies we get is enough to go from 6-10 to playoffs, especially while losing Byrd and learning a new D? Please.

This team will go nowhere until we can win in the div. We need to close the talent gap between us and the Patriots. They lost Spikes but gained Revis- net gain. We lost Byrd and gained Spikes- net loss. I don't think it's a huge gain or loss either way but we certainly didn't close the gap on D. Their O is the same and we only added Mike Williams. Net gain for us but again, not even close to enough to close the talent gap.

It's that simple.

Football is football. It is not like learning Spanish for a year then switching to French, then to Chinese.

I don't think the defensive players will have any problem picking up the system Schwartz runs.

On O we added Mike Williams & a possible starting Guard.

On Defense yes we lost Byrd, but how much of a loss is that really? Byrd did not even play the first 6 games last year.

The signing of Spikes more than makes up for the loss of Byrd. Spikes will make a much bigger impact this year than Byrd made from game 7 on last year.

The Pats* gained Revis, but lost both Spikes & Talib, that is a net loss.

And we have not had the draft yet which should benefit all teams, but it will benefit some teams more than others.

Aside from EJ, the Bills added Kiko, Woods & Goodwin who made an impact last year. If they add three guys who make as big an impact this year, the Bills will be improved.

But I think we all agree this season rests on the shoulders of EJ Manuel. If he plays well or even decent, the Bills make the playoffs, if not the QB search begins again next year.

[justasportsfan]

OK, so why do all of you pessimists think the Bills are going to have a losing record next year?

A) Because you have no faith in Whaley & think he will blow his first draft?

B) Because you have no faith in Marrone & his staff?

C) Because you have no faith in EJ to stay healthy & develop?

D) Because you think the entire Offense SUCKS?

E) Because you think the entire Defense SUCKS?

F) Because after 14 years of losing, you are AFRAID to think the Bills may finally be on the upswing?

Same reason we haven't won the last 14 years, NO franchise qb.

[feldspar]

Here is the way I approach it, for what that's worth:

I sit down and watch every Bills game thinking they have a chance to win it. I'm not exactly shocked if they lose particular games, but I don't take a defeatist attitude like we've already lost before the game even started...much less think the upcoming season is already lost in April.

The level of enthusiasm (or lack thereof) around here is depressing. Few people seem to want to keep an open mind, and it almost seems like even people that post on a Bills message board aren't even really interested to see what happens in the 2014 season. How strange is that? The conclusions are already drawn, it seems, so why watch the games?

I'm not saying that the Bills won't have a losing record, but I HOPE that have a winning record and won't rule out that possibility, unlike some people that I wouldn't watch a game with. I thought the whole point was to ROOT for your team, not to bash them and be miserable about the whole thing as hobby, if not lifestyle.

[DesertFox24]

His long ball is wildly inconsistent. And your comments about other QBs getting better means absolutely nothing. 100x more QBs DIDN'T get better.

EJs mechanical problems should/would have been fixed long ago. These are not typical rookie problems that he's having. Those problems are typically holding the ball too long, making bad reads, panicking on throws, slowing the game down.

EJs problems are the kind that get fixed early on in college, in not high school. And he still carries the ball like a loaf of bread. He has poor muscle memory.

He plays in a simple Offense that's designed so he doesn't have to think much. If he's always having to think about his mechanics, he's always going to have to play in a simple, predictable Offense. That's game over.

Ok so you are a QB guru and are certain guys cannot get better.

I played D1 basketball and I got a lot better and MJ said he got better when he was a pro in a lot of ways.

You are right impossible to improve.

[OpIv37]

Here is the way I approach it, for what that's worth:

I sit down and watch every Bills game thinking they have a chance to win it. I'm not exactly shocked if they lose particular games, but I don't take a defeatist attitude like we've already lost before the game even started...much less think the upcoming season is already lost in April.

The level of enthusiasm (or lack thereof) around here is depressing. Few people seem to want to keep an open mind, and it almost seems like even people that post on a Bills message board aren't even really interested to see what happens in the 2014 season. How strange is that? The conclusions are already drawn, it seems, so why watch the games?

I'm not saying that the Bills won't have a losing record, but I HOPE that have a winning record and won't rule out that possibility, unlike some people that I wouldn't watch a game with. I thought the whole point was to ROOT for your team, not to bash them and be miserable about the whole thing as hobby, if not lifestyle.

Why do you think that people who bash the team for sucking (deservedly so) don't hope the team wins and root for them to do so when the game is actually on?

[better days]

On paper, 90% of this team looks playoff ready. Defense has a ton of talent. Running game is on to the NFL's best. Some really talented young WRs. 3 out 5 OL spots are set. Then you get to QB. EJ couldn't stay on the field and when he did looked like he was in over his head last year. And this team refuses to bring in any guys to challenge him or even for insurance.. Other teams with second year QBs aren't afraid to bring in guys to challenge their guys. Glennon, by far, out played EJ. They brought in McCown and are rumored to be looking to draft a guy. The Jets brought in Vick. For us, it's EJ or bust. Also I don't like Marrone's game management skills and his coordinators. Hackett's play calling is horrendous and Crossman's special teams are a joke. Yet, both guys stayed. Unless coaching and QB play drastically improves this team is going no where again.

Good post. I agree with most of what you said in it.

Maybe I am not the homer some pessimists paint me as.

I think the biggest difference between the pessimists & me is I am not going to write off EJ yet.

I am as pessimistic about Crossman as anyone on this board.

[DesertFox24]

I have no idea he will or will not improve or not, but to blindly say one way or the other is just insane.

Also if you guys are such professionals why are you QB guru coaches?

I coach basketball and I teach fundamentals and thinks like shooting accuracy and shot form can be tweeked.

It takes sound mechanics and effort and time, and yes I have seen it done and I myself became a very good shooter when I was not when I was younger.

[Fletch]

With a real QB this would have been a borderline playoff team last year.

With a real QB any team is a borderline playoff team.

Detroit has a very good QB but still can't manage. They also have far more talent in the receiving dept.

[feldspar]

Why do you think that people who bash the team for sucking (deservedly so) don't hope the team wins and root for them to do so when the game is actually on?

I think that the people that bash the team every single day as some sort of hobby need a different hobby.

[Fletch]

I have no idea he will or will not improve or not, but to blindly say one way or the other is just insane.

Also if you guys are such professionals why are you QB guru coaches?

I coach basketball and I teach fundamentals and thinks like shooting accuracy and shot form can be tweeked.

It takes sound mechanics and effort and time, and yes I have seen it done and I myself became a very good shooter when I was not when I was younger.

Weak argument.

Who's arguing blindly? Everyone has seen Manuel, how he plays, his faults, his glaring lack of consistency, etc.

How is that a blind analysis?

It does take sound mechanics and time for some QBs, others catch on right away. But some of that stuff is not teachable/coachable and some is. Manuel's stuff is largely not coachable.

I've posted this article I don't know how many times. Read it, because these guys followed Manuel for every game at FSU as ardent fans and writers. They know, exactly, what they're talking about and the same reasons for their skepticism have cropped up not only here, but as they point out, at FSU as well who had to dumb down their system for him, a tremendously gifted athlete.

If that's blind then I'm Mother Teresa.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4...-florida-state

In fact, if someone at OBD had read this thing, or had the mental faculties to come to the same easily reached conclusions independently, then we wouldn't be in this undesired situation.

Once again, this is hardly brain or rocket science, but no one at OBD has a clue.

If anything, looking at this blindly is the side of those that think that by doing the same thing over and over again we'll end up with a different result.

Picking Manuel last year, and the likely associated unwillingness to pick his replacement this year, is going to cost Marrone an NFL coaching career. Not that he would have been good otherwise, but that alone is going to render him all but a lame duck after this season.

Hopefully new ownership will be in soon and put in place some good intellectual capital at OBD. I wouldn't be a roll of toilet paper on it, but we can always hope.

[Fletch]

I think that the people that bash the team every single day as some sort of hobby need a different hobby.

Couldn't you make the same argument but even more so for people that perennially predict that we're "finally headed in the right direction" after projecting to a 15-year string of failure in this way?

Perhaps those people need a new hobby.

Otherwise, who here bashes the team every single day? Even the most ardent skeptics will admit that certain players are quite good. I don't know what can possibly be said that's positive about our FO or coaches, at least not until things change, which doesn't appear to be anywhere on the radar, and "until it actually happens."

If you want to bash on the people that are the most skeptical, do it on facts from last season regarding their statements prior to that season, last season.

I distinctly recall how everyone was talking about how Spiller would repeat, and his promise of 2,000 yards rushing, etc. How Marrone's friends and family hiring program were good choices, etc.

Pettine was about the best thing here and his D wasn't good. Sure, it logged bookoo sacks, but we couldn't even stop rushing attacks led by completely unknown and unaccomplished RBs.

The rest was just a recipe for disaster.