Opinions still need something to support them to be taken seriously.Originally Posted by gebobs
Some opinions are based on using facts and history to come to a logical conclusion. Other opinions are based on emotion and desire. Not all opinions are equally valid.
Well, you are right. So how was your opinion that the Bills should have kept Donald Jones working out for you?
My opinion was not that the Bills should keep Donald Jones.
My opinion was that going into the season with a rookie QB and Stevie Johnson, sophomore TJ Graham and a bunch of rookies at WR was a bad idea. I said we needed more experience at WR to support EJ. You assumed that meant keeping Donald Jones, but, contrary to your belief, Donald Jones is not the only experienced WR in the NFL.
Oh, and remember that this thread started with you saying that no WR on this team had more than 3 tds. So... maybe, just maybe, more experience at WR would have been beneficial. Hmmmm...
Show us you said experienced receivers aside from Donald Jones.
I remember going around & around with you about Jones.
Your position was that Jones was experienced.
My position was that yes Jones was experienced but MEDIOCRE.
I said a talented rookie would be better to have than a mediocre vet.
And I still say that. A more experienced WR with TALENT would have helped Manuel, but not a mediocre one.
You still say that a talented rookie is better than an experienced vet, even though none of your talented rookies managed more than 3 TD's last year?
Haha, ok.
Yes I still believe that. I think Watkins will have a better year than MANY vets in the NFL.
Or maybe he'll get 3 TD's, like the rookies you thought were better than vets last year.
Well, those were 3 more than Jones had last year.
And I did like Nelson & was not happy to see him leave, but he was a FA that was also injured.
That assumes he cares if you take them seriously. It seems like wishful thinking to me.
Hey, I think Hillary's gonna win cuz she tips her Cuban maid really good!
Don't quote me on that.
Lehner's history. He just doesn't know it yet.
better days (07-29-2014),OpIv37 (07-29-2014)
Somebody should call up Glenn and tell him to take the entire season to recover, Williams and tell him he doesn't have anything to prove, Wood doesn't have to stay healthy, and Urbik, Hairston, Pears and KuJo to relax and quit trying so hard to win a starting job because obviously based on this conversation they are a non-factor and it's all on EJ.
YardRat Wall of Fame
#56 DARRYL TALLEY #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS
Doesn't she still live in Westchester, near NYC? Her maid's Puerto Rican, not Cuban.
Unless she took up residence in DC, in which case her maid is Salvadoran.
Racist.
The Bills receiving core last year would have been no different, production wise, with keeping Jones And Nelson and not drafting Woods. And now going into the future it still will be no different.
With drafting Watkins, as long as he stays healthy, you're turning Woods into a 40-50 catch per season player for as long as Watkins is here. Something David Nelson could have easily provided or numerous other random WRs in the NFL for that matter.
Unfortunate for Jones his career is now over but that's not something you could have foreseen happening even a year ago as he didn't announce his retirement due to kidney disease til August.
Fletch (07-30-2014)
Reports from camp or a report from camp ? So many people are listening what WGR's Joe B. reports and taking it as word. Joe B. has never liked Manuel and he isn't going to change his tune, no matter what Manuel does. Joe B. and Manuel are both FSU products and I think that Manuel must of snubbed Joe B. for an autograph, or told him to stop stalking him, that's why Joe B. holds this grudge (sarcasm for some posters that can't realize it). Even fellow WGR staff have commented on Joe B's one sided opinion of Manuel. Watching hilites and listening to other reports, it looks like Manuel is improving and that's what we (most of us) want.
OK, you can be a bigger fan.
Again, tough to tell here who's joking and who isn't when whomever started this thread says something like that but at the same time people are saying that players like Spikes, Rivers, Bradham, Graham (who by the way is a backup on the depth chart), and Searcy are going to provide us with the type of play that we need on D to make the playoffs. To me that's an equal joke, but people take it seriously.
Show your work in the logic on that. Show us how if they each put up 4 TDs that we'll have more than 16 passing TDs that we had last season, and then show us how it would necessarily mean more points. Then show us the logic in how that will necessarily win us more games.
There are a whole lot of things that you are leaving out in your one-dimensional analysis here.
If you ask me, if we even want to hit 16 TDs and score more, then they're both going to have to do more than put up 4 TDs apiece.
Thanks for correcting him.
It's not about being right or wrong or last laughs IMO, but more about discussing why you (or anyone) believes what they do.
I just don't see it. Again, citing just a few examples, and I won't have to dig for these, I'll just pick a few teams that had good WRs, maybe even great WRs, but finished 6-10 or worse last year, and point out what they did.
Tampa: Jackson & Wright, 7 and 5 TDs and about 1,800 between them. 4-12
Cleveland: Gordon & Cameron (TE), 9 and 7 TDs and about 2,600 between them. 4-12
Houston: Johnson & Graham (TE), 5 and 5 TDs and about 2,000 between them. 2-14
Oakland: Moore, Streater, and Rivera (TE), 5, 4, and 4 TDs and about 2,000 among them. 4-12
Not one of those teams scored more than we did last season. That was last season, forget this season in which you expect us to have more points.
I didn't even have to get past 4-12 to prove that just because WRs get more than 3 TDs that doesn't mean you're going to score enough points to post a winning record. That's all I'm saying.
When you say things like that it's always a good idea to go look to see if what you say holds water in the context of other examples, in this case teams.
LOL
He means well. Other posters say nonsensical things but are confrontational just because they think that they're better fans. They're the kinds of people that always want to fight about stuff instead of debate it reasonably.
OpIv37 (07-30-2014)
By the way bd, here's what I think that our WRs' stats may look like by the end of the season. I'll make some reasonable assumptions as to who our WRs on the roster will be and will also assume that Manuel stays healthy for all 16 games, something that I don't see as a wise assumption, but nonetheless. There's also no basis to assume that just because Manuel's in his second season that he will improve. Statistically the odds are about equal that he would improve or regress. I'll assume that he improves slightly though. I'll say 18 TDs, 16 INTS, which IMO is generous.
Watkins: 800/5
Woods: 700/4
Williams: 700/3
Goodwin: 300/2
Hogan: 100/0
TEs: 600/2
RBs: 600/2
I realize that everyone thinks that Watkins is going to do 1,200/12 but the odds of that happening are so ridiculously remote.
I think that you'll get your 3+ TDs apiece from two WRs, maybe even three, but I don't see us being any better than the 6-10 we were last year. We couldn't stop good passing teams last season and this season we play even more of them and better ones. I don't see us winning any of those games, they'll be shootouts just like they were last year and we can't compete in those.
Last edited by Fletch; 07-30-2014 at 08:00 AM.
Afterall, there's just so much to like.
LOL
Honestly, if Manuel had been drafted by the Raiders in the middle of round one, had performed like he did last season there, you and the rest of his apologists here would be talking about him as if he were just next in the long string of Oakland's absurdly drafted 1st-round failures like Jamarcus Russell, McFadden, and Heyward-Bey.
Go back & read my first post of this thread. I said I expected Watkins & Williams to exceed that number (3) by a LOT. One is NOT a lot.
I would not be surprised if one or maybe both of them get 3 TD's in a single game.
I am thinking between 6-10 TD's by both Watkins & Williams.
The Bills scored 339 points last year, 21.2 points per game, ranked #22 of the 32 teams.
With the addition of Watkins & Williams & if EJ stays healthy & improves as he needs to, I expect the Bills to put up more points than they did last year & to be ranked higher in points scored.
The Bills lost 4 games by 7 points or less last year. If the Bills score more points, 6-10 turns into 10-6.
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