Public Stadium Funding

[WagonCircler]

Whenever the prospect of publicly funding a new stadium comes up, whiners come out of the woodwork.

According to John Wawrow of the AP, in a Buffalo Rumblings podcast, the State of New York collects $20 MIL in taxes annually from player salaries.

Obviously, if the Bills were to move to some hellhole like Toronto, the state would lose that money.

So, if NY were to partially fund a stadium, it could be considered a revenue generator. A taxpayer contribution of $400 MIL would be recouped over a 20 year lease on player salaries alone, and that's not adjusting for constantly escalating salaries.

[Fletch]

LMAO

So now anyone looking at the state's ability to contribute anything significant in today's economy is a whiner.

You just can't make this crap up.

I suppose that Erie County has a pot of gold that none of us knows about. Otherwise, clearly they're broke for all intents and purposes.

You know who the whiners are to me, it's those that whine about other fans outside the context of the discussion when the fans have no control over the situation.

[WagonCircler]

I suppose that Erie County has a pot of gold that none of us knows about..

Yes, his name is Son of Mario.

He couldn't care less what he spends. Ever heard of the Buffalo Billion?

You must have the suicide hotline on speed dial, Felch. Things are going VERY poorly for you and your gay glam rock hero Bon Jovi.

The Bills will be purchased by Terry Pegula.

Suck it.

[Dr. Lecter]

I have brought up the income tax issue before.

I am not sure if he included the income taxes paid by coaches, stadium workers, etc either. Or sales tax collected at the games or on things people buy for games.

It won't pay for it all, but it also not like this team does not generate revenue for the state and county.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yes, his name is Son of Mario.

He couldn't care less what he spends. Ever heard of the Buffalo Billion?

You must have the suicide hotline on speed dial, Felch. Things are going VERY poorly for you and your gay glam rock hero Bon Jovi.

The Bills will be purchased by Terry Pegula.

Suck it.

So is this thread going south the fault of Blondie and Mr. Blondie too?

[casdhf]

I would rather have my money go to this than some other wasted venture. Welfare for some unemployed dirt bag with 3 kids and an iPhone or a new stadium. Hmmmm. I know where my vote goes.

[WagonCircler]

So is this thread going south the fault of Blondie and Mr. Blondie too?

Well, if you take into account my theory that coastal = Fletch...

[coastal]

Look at the tax revenue!!!!

idiots.

since when did an expenditure's ability to turn a profit be the be-all/end-all of policy making.

its a question of community values.

Buffalo endorses parking lot alcoholism, big corporate entertainment monopolies, and the energy industry's abuse of the citizenry and environment.

Let Pegs pay.

If it's there, spend $1 billion on attracting new industry and jobs to the area.

WNY has a great workforce.

Invest in them... not their distractions.

[gebobs]

Please build the stadium downtown...right over that sorry excuse for a casino. LOL...what a joke. I walked in there last week just to check it out. Not exactly Bond and baccarat, is it? Must be 5000 penny slots. Classy!

[gebobs]

According to John Wawrow of the AP, in a Buffalo Rumblings podcast, the State of New York collects $20 MIL in taxes annually from player salaries.

Really? I'd like to see how that breaks down. I'm not up on all the intricacies of what counts as income for this guy and that, but just a back of the envelope calculation...$20M revenue/$133M cap comes to an effective 15% rate. Neither am I all up on NYS tax rates, but that seems high.

[OpIv37]

Whenever the prospect of publicly funding a new stadium comes up, whiners come out of the woodwork.

According to John Wawrow of the AP, in a Buffalo Rumblings podcast, the State of New York collects $20 MIL in taxes annually from player salaries.

Obviously, if the Bills were to move to some hellhole like Toronto, the state would lose that money.

So, if NY were to partially fund a stadium, it could be considered a revenue generator. A taxpayer contribution of $400 MIL would be recouped over a 20 year lease on player salaries alone, and that's not adjusting for constantly escalating salaries.

The state of New York has an annual operating budget of $90 billion. That's BILLION, with a "B". $20 million a year is essentially nothing. It will not have any effect whatsoever on whether or not the state ponies up for a stadium.

Also, the games cost the government money. Wear and tear on the roads, additional police forces, crowd control, etc. I don't know how those expenses are split between the state, local governments and the team, but the $20 million in income tax isn't pure profit. There are costs associated with it.

[imbondz]

I can't stand the idea that my taxes are going to pay for an NFL stadium. drives me crazy. can't believe anyone would be ok with it, knowing that every single franchise can afford a new stadium

[Dr. Lecter]

Look at the tax revenue!!!!

idiots.

since when did an expenditure's ability to turn a profit be the be-all/end-all of policy making.

its a question of community values.

Buffalo endorses parking lot alcoholism, big corporate entertainment monopolies, and the energy industry's abuse of the citizenry and environment.

Let Pegs pay.

If it's there, spend $1 billion on attracting new industry and jobs to the area.

WNY has a great workforce.

Invest in them... not their distractions.

Oh for God's sake.

Nobody said that it was the be all/end all. What people are trying to say is that the investment (if it is made) is not without value or a ROI. It is not like flushing money down the drain. It is not a zero sum game, where the money is thrown out.
I would much rather have the new owner pay as well. Don't get me wrong. But it is not like the state and area does not have a reason for this team to stay. It is not quite as simple as let the team go and magically invest in the area.

And yeah - there is a great workforce in the area. It would be great if they continue to invest in it. Of course, they can do more of that with having an actual NFL team in the state providing income to the state coffers.

So while it is not just about how much money the state makes, that is also part of the decision and can counter the idea that spending this money is a empty gesture that generates only positives for the billionaire.

[SpikedLemonade]

If a new stadium is ever built in Buffalo, it will only be with 60% public financing.

It appears there is no owner willing to spend $1B on the Bills so to expect an owner to spend $400M of his own money on a stadium is naive.

[coastal]

Oh for God's sake.

Nobody said that it was the be all/end all. What people are trying to say is that the investment (if it is made) is not without value or a ROI. It is not like flushing money down the drain. It is not a zero sum game, where the money is thrown out.
I would much rather have the new owner pay as well. Don't get me wrong. But it is not like the state and area does not have a reason for this team to stay. It is not quite as simple as let the team go and magically invest in the area.

And yeah - there is a great workforce in the area. It would be great if they continue to invest in it. Of course, they can do more of that with having an actual NFL team in the state providing income to the state coffers.

So while it is not just about how much money the state makes, that is also part of the decision and can counter the idea that spending this money is a empty gesture that generates only positives for the billionaire.

i get that.

thanks for the long winded explanation of the obvious.

[Saratoga Slim]

If you're asking New York State/Erie County to look at this from an 'investment' perspective, that assumes we're talking about a zero sum game (build a new stadium and the Bills stay, or don't and they leave).

There's a legitimate question of whether a new stadium would actually bring in significantly more revenue for the Bills (and consequently whether it would bring in any more tax revenue for the state). From a perspective of income tax revenue on players' salaries, it wouldn't, as salaries are cap driven. And from a team income perspective, we already sell out almost every game, and who knows whether there is any more corporate money to tap in Buffalo.

So unless there's some factor that requires the Bills to build a new stadium in order to stay in Buffalo, arguing that NYS/Erie County is ignoring the income revenue doesn't really make sense. The state and county's position is essentially that they can continue to receive the same tax income (escalating slowly with cap increases and rising league revenue sharing payouts) without gambling a huge sum of money on the chance that they might eventually make slightly more.

[WagonCircler]

If you're asking New York State/Erie County to look at this from an 'investment' perspective, that assumes we're talking about a zero sum game (build a new stadium and the Bills stay, or don't and they leave).

There's a legitimate question of whether a new stadium would actually bring in significantly more revenue for the Bills (and consequently whether it would bring in any more tax revenue for the state). From a perspective of income tax revenue on players' salaries, it wouldn't, as salaries are cap driven. And from a team income perspective, we already sell out almost every game, and who knows whether there is any more corporate money to tap in Buffalo.

So unless there's some factor that requires the Bills to build a new stadium in order to stay in Buffalo, arguing that NYS/Erie County is ignoring the income revenue doesn't really make sense. The state and county's position is essentially that they can continue to receive the same tax income (escalating slowly with cap increases and rising league revenue sharing payouts) without gambling a huge sum of money on the chance that they might eventually make slightly more.

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

[OpIv37]

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

Ok, one more time: a state with a $90 billion annual budget is not going to make long term infrastructure decisions based on $20 million in income tax revenue. It is 0.0002 percent of their annual budget.

Think of it this way: it would be like you fretting over the decision to put an addition on your house because once the addition is there, your property tax would go up by 75 cents a year.

[swiper]

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

Not everyone in Erie County is a football fan. Those people see it very differently.

[justasportsfan]

I think the taxes made from alcohol sales alone tops 20 million / game. Could've been more if the canadian fans weren't buying from their duty free.