No. Are you joking? Buffalo destroyed its waterfront over the past century with everything from steel mills that have rendered much of it toxic dump to landfills to disgusting highways. They aren't the only city to have done that. But cities with vision are rethinking that myopic strategy.
The Embarcadero in San Francisco fell amid the earthquake in 1989. It was among the most disgusting examples of bad urban planning leaving much of the city's waterfront mired in gloom beneath the road. When it fell, they never rebuilt it. Now that area is beautiful even despite the baseball stadium.
Have you ever been to Minneapolis? They have huge swaths of greenspace throughout the city. Property around that greenspace has tremendous value.
Look at Buffalo's own Delaware Park. Once a crown jewel of the city until they sliced it in half with the Scajaquada, a scar of asphalt with a name that is just slightly less appealing than its visual aesthetic. Still, the properties in the area are among the most valuable in the city.
I'll tell you why not. Greenspace would benefit everyone. Not just the billionaire owner, the millionaire babies on the field, and the trash strewing drunken fans that go to eight, no sorry, seven games a year."Please not the Waterfront."
Why not? If a new stadium was built on the, 'greenspace,' and condos were built around it on the Lake, as they constantly do in Toronto....wouldn't that be of greater benefit to Buffalo than empty land?
Do it as Wagon has it and drop it on that awful casino, fine. But with it, contingencies by governments on all levels and team ownership to invest heavily in the city to rejuvenate the balance of the waterfront and restore it to its glory with greenspace. There's some good efforts already underway and the city needs to keep that momentum going. Buffalo has an historic opportunity for a renaissance. There was good reason why the moneyed folk of NYC made western NY their second homes. It was beautiful and the weather was great in the summer. Let's get that mojo back.
All development is not good. We should have learned that lesson after the wholesale destruction of the parkways, the Delaware mansions, the Olmstead parks, the waterfront, etc. etc. etc. We don't need a big ol' Bass Pro shop. We need to radically rethink the city plan and be careful where we drop this stadium so as not to blow it all up. NYC gets billions and billions to resurrect the WTC. What about resurrecting us?
Lehner's history. He just doesn't know it yet.
chernobylwraiths (08-28-2014)
Mace (08-27-2014)
COMING SOON...
Originally Posted by Dr.Lecter
It's not that simple. The City of Buffalo is a HUD entitlement community which means they have to sign certifications every year saying they are Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing which includes (most notably in this case) a persons right to housing choice. You simply can't just build a new project somewhere else and force everybody to move. They have to be given the free choice to do so, additionally the City of Buffalo would need to show (if sued) that they have enough affordable housing (not just Section 8 vouchers or public housing) to house all the residents that would be displaced (which they don't).
Finally they are all entitled to relocation fees that will include a flat rate for moving and insuring all of their belongings in the process and will also include a daily displacement rate, as well some kind of utility and rent cover for the first few months.
Just because somebody is low-income doesn't mean they don't have rights. The northeast is very much the epicenter for Fair Housing issues right now. Restrictive Zoning Laws in Westchester and Nassau Counties, and a very similar plan to tear down projects and just rebuild them in Mt. Holly, New Jersey.
You're talking about a legal battle alone that would take years and delay any stadium construction, not to mention hundreds of thousands in attorney fees.
Maybe Mace is right from the page before and all the residents go willingly because the conditions are abhorrent. I don't live in Buffalo so I can't comment on that.
Last edited by DraftBoy; 08-28-2014 at 05:37 AM.
If you seen those projects relocating shouldn't be a problem,
but of course I'm sure someone could and would *****.
I've been hearing about the Perry street location for a while for the stdium. I'm sure it can be worked out.
Then again it is Buffalo.
Unless there is a land issue off the thruway just east of Transit rd within 5 miles, I don't see how that cannot be considered. You have easy access, can build new exits off the thruway, they can widen that portion of the thruway. You have a ton of existing commerce and restaurants just west on Niag Falls Blvd, Transit Rd, etc., UB. Easy access, still technically IN Buffalo, literally 40 mins from Rochester, almost the same trek from Canada, and closer to Syracuse as well. The best accessibility and existing environment and location. Foxburough isn't in downtown Boston, who cares.
And lets get it over with, the Western NY Buffalos. This is how you get NYS funding.
Lou Saban: You can get it done, you can get it done. And what’s more, you’ve gotta get it done.
"Hank... What about moving to Buffalo? I am reading that they are creating Greenspace all over the place."
"Joanne, Can I make a living up there?
"Hank, housing is really cheap too but more expensive around those snazzy greenspaces... Oh taxes are kinda steep though."
"Joanne, Can I get a good paying job up there?"
"Hank, Look at the waterfront photos here... It's beautiful. And they have a Courtyard by Marriott!"
"Joanne, I need to work you ignorant cow!"
"Oh Hank".
- - - Updated - - -
Last edited by sukie; 08-28-2014 at 07:46 AM.
Projects are a thing of the past. The gov't is placing low income people with Section 8 housing in privately owned properties with subsided rent.
All you need to do is drive through those projects to see that a huge percentage are already vacant and boarded up.
The government is more likely to face a "Fair Housing lawsuit" by keeping people in those death traps.
You act like people are thrilled to be there. You're wrong, as usual.
better days (08-28-2014),gebobs (08-28-2014)
I have, but the condition of the projects isn't the main issue you face when talking about relocation.
I have no doubt it can, but its not as simply as just rebuilding more projects elsewhere.I've been hearing about the Perry street location for a while for the stdium. I'm sure it can be worked out.
Then again it is Buffalo.
By all means then, pave over all the Olmsted parks and put up more strip malls so Hank can find a shoe store to work in. They're all crap now anyway. May as well finish what Buffalo's city planners have been doing to them over the past 70 years.
It will be the last great migration. It will be as clear a sign as any that Buffalo has turned out the lights. Yeehaw! Go Bills!
Last edited by gebobs; 08-28-2014 at 09:44 AM.
I'm well aware although Section 8 isn't the direction that they are going in, its going to be RAD based but its a similar principal.
That may be true, but that doesn't mean you can utilize that as justification to demolish the entire project. You still have to deal with the residents that are there which will include housing choice and relocation assistance.
Whoever runs the project (be it private or public) could face a lawsuit for that, but it likely wouldn't come under Fair Housing laws. They don't deal as much with property standards though there are some state level laws (not as familiar with NY's) that do delve into livable conditions.
I never said that, I simply said that there are Fair Housing issues that exist that must be accounted for. A residents willingness to live there or not live there has no bearing on my point. You can't simply take away a low-income residents home and move it somewhere else freely. If the City of Buffalo provides a good relocation option the situation is solved, but its more complicated then just finding more land in another part of town. Their are accessibility and mobility issues to look at, there are job issues, school issues, etc.
And that's all before the new Fair Housing law gets passed next year which compounds the problem even further when you start talking about Racially and Ethnically Concentrated Areas of Poverty (RCAP/ECAP).
Fair Housing isn't likely going to kill a deal on Perry Street, it just needs to be worked out in advance. It's just more complicated then demolishing the project and building the new stadium.
Most of them are not being used. And furthermore, they are not in livable condition and would likely not pass building codes. Tearing them down, even if replaced by nothing, would be doing Buffalo a favor.
Do you really think anything about the process of building a $1 BIL stadium is simple? (No, you're just being a dick).
What makes this more simple than almost any other solution is that the group building the stadium would be negotiating with one group, which owns the majority of the land. That group would also happen to be a participant in building the stadium.
But hey, you know a LOT more than the people I've been talking to. They're just landowners in the area around the projects and government officials, and employees of a company that would be interested in actually building a stadium. What would they know?
All that area would need to be cleared out and cleaned out. One of the reasons the Braves are moving out of Turner Field is that they don't want their fans walking through slums.
I really liked the article a couple weeks ago that proposed a downtown stadium and included a section of 190 being tunneled. That was probably the best proposal/idea I have ever seen regarding a new stadium. It seemed very well thought out and it all made sense to me.