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Thread: Bills sign Kyle Orton

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by coastal View Post
    You're so much smarter than the rest of us.

    maybe you could evaluate how race affects the position?

    or r u too busy wheeling around Love Canal?
    thats the awesome thing about living in america - if you disagree with something ive said then you are perfectly welcome to blow me
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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    nice explanation typoh

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    Best post in the thread.
    Except for it being addressed already

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Lecter View Post
    Tim Graham@ByTimGraham 22m Two sources tell me Bills have been trying to sign Kyle Orton for months because Thad Lewis played so poorly in OTAs. Lewis never rallied.
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticsoto
    Lecter is right in everything he said.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Typ0 View Post
    I don't think you are on with this. What might become apparent is Manual is taking a step backwards. That would not be abnormal and it won't put him in the bust category either. What will put him in the bust category is if he takes a step backwards and it gets into his head and turns him into a bust. That will be up to Manual.

    But this is about the team as a whole. I like this move a lot. What it says to me is the staff is interested in winning...and before they made this move I was concerned they were more interested in Manual's success. There is a huge difference. Orton is a guy who should not even be in the league...but the reason is he brings game to the table and competes. He's no manning--his skill set is limited but he knows how to use what he has. We now have a QB on the roster who an opponent has to look at and understand he will beat them if they don't take him seriously. They actually got what they wanted I think ... because there is no QB controversy Orton is just now entering the locker room. If Manual can't start processing better in the first few weeks we will see Orton starting giving Manual a chance to step back and get his head together. Big time Wins all around for the Bills in signing Orton and it's the little victories that add up in an organization that eventually make the difference to translating onto the field. Way to go coach Marrone I know you have a staff of people there helping but you are making good decisions. Keep learning and moving forward please.
    I can buy into with most of what you're saying here. I do disagree with your point about Manuel's regressions. What I see is a young player without the training wheels. No more basic plays, full playbook. This isnt something any player can just walk into and immediately succeed. Last year Manuel was still operating at a college level going through basic progressions. The offense is opening up more to him this year and it will be his failures now that can later lead to second opportunities. I give the kid the season before kicking him out the door.
    Last edited by RedEyE; 08-30-2014 at 08:10 AM.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    I always saw Orton as a Jeff Hostetler type who could be a decent game manager with a good defense backing him up, which is why I see him fitting inhere.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I see him starting by week 7.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Panic. I don't think Jordan Palmer is all that, but signing, playing, and cutting within 4 days or so was kind of silly.

    Maybe it says something about where I am as a fan and what I presently think about the QB position, but I'm feeling a stable journeyman QB might be able to step in and give the same results in week one as we might get from the poorly groomed project guy, without having a clue. I might be real wrong about Manuel and Orton both, but it feels, to me, like a good time to panic and hope for least worse if it comes to that.

    I just don't think there's a better least worse than Orton, and signing him makes me feel better. He's the best least worse we've had in a decade, and he agreed to be the best least worse here !

    I admit my expectations are low.

    What is there to panic about? It's not like this team is in danger of slipping from the ranks of a playoff contender. I would probably panic if this team was a playoff threat with chances of winning the division. But since we're not, I feel like there is nothing to panic over. The only way we can go is upwards at this point.

    Again, I agree that it is nice to have a journeyman QB that can at the very least manage a game for you is a nice luxury to have, but I don't think he's going to be much better than what EJ Manual will give is in the short term. Expecting that would be like me walking into a new job tomorrow and being expected to perform at the level I do my current job with on the very first day without knowing rules or how the company operates. I agree that Jordan Palmer wasn't the kind of signing we needed; and you could see him being released coming from a mile away. However there are reports that the Bills have been after Orton since he was released from the Cowboys just before training camp. Also too with Orton.... lets not forget that he was benched for Tim Tebow at one time....

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    I'm tired of hearing about EJ's development and how he the light is supposedly going to come on for him. He is a guy who has been playing QB at a high level for years and still cannot throw an accurate pass. That isn't teachable.

    The hell with giving him a season to "figure it out." Fourteen years without a playoff birth; I'm not stoked about guaranteeing a 15th for the 4% chance Manuel actually turns out well. Give Manuel Week One and, when he is awful and the Bills get their asses kicked, start Orton for the home opener.
    "Miami played pretty damn good today and still got their ass kicked."

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyGold View Post
    Because you're used to watching Bills football, that's why.

    Winning teams just win. And winning players just win.

    We like to sit here and talk about how complicated football is... "guys need a whole offseason, OTAs, training camp, 4 years in the league, the same coach, coordinator, breakfast cereal, etc. AND THEN, when all that is in place, they need to scale everything back for the preseason, can't tip our hand too early, gotta save everything for Chicago. Sure, EJ hasn't thrown the ball well all preseason, but that's just because all of the aforementioned stars have not perfectly aligned themselves. It doesn't matter if other QBs have looked good, EJ is only a second year player. BUT ONCE THE SEASON STARTS, these issues are going to magically resolve themselves, and the Bills will start winning."

    No.

    Orton has a 35-35 record as a starter. That is better than any Bills QB since Kelly. Period. He can come in, win games, and do it immediately. He is the most talented QB we've had since Bledsoe.

    Football is not a complicated sport. Learn the terminology, go out there and throw the ball around. I mean, have you ever met a professional football player? These guys aren't splitting the atom here.

    Saying that Orton needs a month or two to "get up to speed" is like saying a new-hire at your job needs a month or two to "get up to speed" by reading the HR pamphlets on sexual harassment and PTO.

    He WILL be the starter by week 4, possibly week 2 if EJ stinks it up in the opener, and allow me to be the first to say:

    I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF HE STARTED AGAINST CHICAGO.
    Certainly an entertaining post Johnny, but we all know he isn't starting against Chicago. And if EJ goes down, I won't say when EJ goes down, he's probably a better short term option.
    Lou Saban: You can get it done, you can get it done. And what’s more, you’ve gotta get it done.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyGold View Post
    Because you're used to watching Bills football, that's why.

    Winning teams just win. And winning players just win.

    We like to sit here and talk about how complicated football is... "guys need a whole offseason, OTAs, training camp, 4 years in the league, the same coach, coordinator, breakfast cereal, etc. AND THEN, when all that is in place, they need to scale everything back for the preseason, can't tip our hand too early, gotta save everything for Chicago. Sure, EJ hasn't thrown the ball well all preseason, but that's just because all of the aforementioned stars have not perfectly aligned themselves. It doesn't matter if other QBs have looked good, EJ is only a second year player. BUT ONCE THE SEASON STARTS, these issues are going to magically resolve themselves, and the Bills will start winning."

    No.

    Orton has a 35-35 record as a starter. That is better than any Bills QB since Kelly. Period. He can come in, win games, and do it immediately. He is the most talented QB we've had since Bledsoe.

    Football is not a complicated sport. Learn the terminology, go out there and throw the ball around. I mean, have you ever met a professional football player? These guys aren't splitting the atom here.

    Saying that Orton needs a month or two to "get up to speed" is like saying a new-hire at your job needs a month or two to "get up to speed" by reading the HR pamphlets on sexual harassment and PTO.

    He WILL be the starter by week 4, possibly week 2 if EJ stinks it up in the opener, and allow me to be the first to say:

    I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF HE STARTED AGAINST CHICAGO.
    This whole, entire thing couldn't possibly be more wrong.

    This guy was beaten out by TIM TEBOW!

    There is just no way to realistically expect a guy to come in a grasp the entire playbook and be comfortable enough with his receivers in ONE WEEK to the point to where he will be comfortable in not only playing, but playing at a decent level. Week one?? REALLY??? Prepare to be surprised, because the only way that happens is if EJ slips on the Kevin Kolb mat and hurts his knee again.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by sudzy View Post
    Because the Bills live in a place called denial (not a river in Egypt), where an inexperienced crap OC can turn 3 inexperienced crap QBs into NFL ready QBs in a training camp. POP, that's the sound of their bubble bursting.

    Or, it's because Kyle Orton was under contract with another team....

    But that couldn't possibly be why this move wasn't made 4 months ago now, could it?

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Jry44 View Post
    This whole, entire thing couldn't possibly be more wrong.

    This guy was beaten out by TIM TEBOW!

    There is just no way to realistically expect a guy to come in a grasp the entire playbook and be comfortable enough with his receivers in ONE WEEK to the point to where he will be comfortable in not only playing, but playing at a decent level. Week one?? REALLY??? Prepare to be surprised, because the only way that happens is if EJ slips on the Kevin Kolb mat and hurts his knee again.
    Since Jim Kelly retired following the Wild Card loss to Jacksonville, the Buffalo Bills have had any number of starting quarterbacks. Only Holcomb (4-4) and Flutie (21-9) have played .500 ball or better. Orton's career record is 35-35.

    With 35 career victories, that gives him more wins as an NFL starter than any QB we've had since Bledsoe... hell, it gives him more wins as an NFL starter than any random 3 or 4 qbs that have started since Kelly left COMBINED have as NFL starters.

    This is the most talent we've had at the position since we traded for Bledsoe. Today is the happiest I've been as a Bills fan in years--and yes, that says more about the Bills than me, but so be it. There's a reason we haven't had a shot at the playoffs since Bledsoe was here, and it's QB play. With Orton under center, and the weapons we have, combined with our D, I just went from thinking 2-14, to thinking 9-7 or 10-6.

    The sooner Orton starts, the better. Bring out the rubber mats that did in Kolb, or hide the playbook ala Billie Joe Hobart--either way, get Orton on the field.

    Suddenly our wideouts look better, our running game seems incredibly dangerous, and our offensive line looks "young and learning how to gel".

    Saddest people this morning: Browns fans.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Lecter View Post
    Tim Graham@ByTimGraham 22m Two sources tell me Bills have been trying to sign Kyle Orton for months because Thad Lewis played so poorly in OTAs. Lewis never rallied.
    Well, the Cowboys didn't cut Orton until July 15 so I think that is a bunch of BS.

    Like most of the CRAP Tim Graham puts out.

    Rodack & Graham, two of the WORST reporters in the entire NFL covering the Bills.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    No it isn't. All you have to do is WATCH Manuel play. He has so many limitations. It's what wagoncircler has been saying all along. He has issues with things you can't teach.
    Aside from being inconsistent with his accuracy, what are these many limitations you see in Manuel?

    Things you can't teach: physical tools- EJ has those.

    EJ also has leadership ability & a strong work ethic, which is the reason I think he will be successful given time.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEyE View Post
    I can buy into with most of what you're saying here. I do disagree with your point about Manuel's regressions. What I see is a young player without the training wheels. No more basic plays, full playbook. This isnt something any player can just walk into and immediately succeed. Last year Manuel was still operating at a college level going through basic progressions. The offense is opening up more to him this year and it will be his failures now that can later lead to second opportunities. I give the kid the season before kicking him out the door.
    I agree about working with Manual properly. I'm just saying that he could take a step backwards. We may have been witnessing it in camp. He isn't going to get much more of a basic playbook than was used in pre season right? When they start playing the games it may emerge that he's going to struggle for a bit and this move gives us a much better option in that situation. I also am speaking to the backlash we are going to see if he struggles and Orton plays. That does not necessarily indicate Manual is a bust. If everyone does their jobs properly this should be a best of both worlds type of move ... a type of move the team has been very unwilling to make for years. Kudos!

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by better days View Post
    Aside from being inconsistent with his accuracy, what are these many limitations you see in Manuel?

    Things you can't teach: physical tools- EJ has those.

    EJ also has leadership ability & a strong work ethic, which is the reason I think he will be successful given time.
    I agree with that. His issue seems to be in processing. That would indicate he can turn it around. But on what time frame? That is the critical question and how much are you going to throw the entire team to the wolves for one players time frame of development?

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    You can't fix accuracy. I know everyone says you adjust a qb footwork and it will fix it, but I don't believe that is the case. Eli manning is a perfect example. He's not accurate and that's why will never be elite.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    You can't fix accuracy. I know everyone says you adjust a qb footwork and it will fix it, but I don't believe that is the case. Eli manning is a perfect example. He's not accurate and that's why will never be elite.
    You can't hold your standards at elitism though it's too hard to find. If I remember correctly Manning smoked the Patriots for their only loss of the season in the Super Bowl.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    You can't fix accuracy. I know everyone says you adjust a qb footwork and it will fix it, but I don't believe that is the case. Eli manning is a perfect example. He's not accurate and that's why will never be elite.
    Well, Eli has won TWO Super Bowls. I would take that over an accurate QB that fails to win the BIG ONE, like Eli's ELITE brother.

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Typ0 View Post
    I agree with that. His issue seems to be in processing. That would indicate he can turn it around. But on what time frame? That is the critical question and how much are you going to throw the entire team to the wolves for one players time frame of development?
    Well, this year at least, that is a given.

    After the team is sold?

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    Re: Bills sign Kyle Orton

    I not only endorse this signing, but I also give it a **** YEAH!

    The Neckbeard put together some respectable seasons in Denver in terms of yardage and TD/INT ratio.

    More importantly, he brings a hell of a lot more credibility to the questionable state of our QB situation.

    And he can spend a few weeks learning the offense while we tick off the clock until EJ has another knee go gimpy.

    Win/win signing.

    +1
    Last edited by JoeMama; 08-30-2014 at 10:05 AM.

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