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Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Wait a minute, I haven't been following pre-season that much, our first team didn't score 1 TD?
correct. you can count how many 1st downs they got on your fingers and toes as well... 9 quarters of football, less then 20 first downs. It was atrocious to watch.
My wife told me that if I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, girls would find me VERY attractive.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
I think i sorta gave up on EJ and the "preseason means nothing" mantra watching him miss open wr after open wr... and i'm not talking about missing as in throwing the ball to them. i mean not even seeing them. He's looking for "college football" open. you know where the WR has no one within 5 yards of him. if he doesn't see that he won't throw it. He has zero anticipation or trust a WR will break open as well. Its horrendous.
In the last preseason game, against 2nd string scrubs there was a 3rd down play, where the defense was in a 1 deep, man coverage setup, throwing a MLB blitz at the qb, the left WR (i don't know who it was, never saw a replay) blew past the CB who guessed on a short out and completely flubbed the coverage. I mean he flew right past him, EJ wasn't even at the top of his drop back and I was screaming at the tv in exasperation "THROW IT TO HIM!" He never even looked that way. instead he rolled the other way, and threw the ball out of bounds.
what killed me about the play the most was the horrid read of the defense. It was a clear 1 deep zone, man defense look, you could tell before the snap, i mean high school kids can read that defensive look. You could tell presnap... and at the snap the way the one safety headed to the line should have made it clear even to the dimmest of lightbulbs. I would BENCH a qb on my team that missed that read. I mean seriously, the Lions did not disguise that defense at all. WORSE, he had only 1 wr going deep on the play. No one else had a 9 route. That pass should have left his hand before the WR cleared 15 yards down field. hell a good QB would have started his throwing motion by the time the WR was 8 yards down field (that was where he got a step on the CB)
I get trying to get the 11 yards for a first down in 3rd and 11. and that's where EJ went. But as a coach, i can forgive him for taking that shot down field and missing a lot easier then i can forgive the horrid read of that defense. The 11 yard out was covered. Hell the FS gave up playing centerfield and was on that side of the field before EJ even threw the ball. He never even looked off the man the whole route. The line didn't create a moving pocket, EJ rolled himself away from his open receiver. Hell when the WR popped open there wasn't any pressure at all. He had time, an open WR and a defensive look that DEMANDED he atleast LOOK that way. But he didn't. I almost turned the game off at that point (i should have)
My wife told me that if I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, girls would find me VERY attractive.
You mean like an RGIII, Randall Cunningham, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Michael Vick kind?
Exactly. Why else draft him or trade up to reach for him? He certainly didn't/doesn't have any other tangible skill that was worth picking him where we did.
Rat, I'm inclined to agree with you re: the O line,but he has had time to throw, more often than not.
He has been terrible.
As I said, a better performance by the oline isn't going to automatically 'fix' EJ, but it could help to have a little bit of talent and continuity in front of him.
YardRat Wall of Fame #56 DARRYL TALLEY #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS
Well, I won't lower myself to your level and take a reciprocating shot at your football intelligence, but you've just outlined the exact scenario why ANY QB would have struggled this preseason for Buffalo. An absent LT, injuries, youth, new players and zero continuity on the offensive line. Like it or not, success starts in the trenches, and there are very few QB's in this league, if any, that could overcome and be even mildly successful with the cluster**** we have put on the field, on the line, thus far this off-season. Ironic, that you're willing to give the oline time to gel, but unwilling to give the QB the same benefit of the doubt.
EVERY SINGLE QB on the Bills roster seemingly regressed this offseason, as you actually pointed out. Do you really think that's coincidental that they all allegedly went to hell at the same time, or could it be there is an all important factor that affected all of them to various yet similar degrees? Do you really think Kyle Orton under center is going to remedy that to any level other than barely negligible? If you do, I can't help you there.
Would a better offensive line make EJ more accurate or give him the ability to read defenses better. Not necessarily, but better protection may make him more comfortable in the pocket and more able to concentrate on where and when to throw the ball instead of being distracted by defensive heat.
Again. You should open your eyes when you look at the TV. The line struggled, but it wasn't as if Manuel's ineptitudes were because he was deluged by rushers each and every play. That notion is patently ridiculous.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
The notion that is ridiculous is completely dismissing the oline shuffle as a non-factor in all of the QB's play this preseason.
There's a reason why all QB's regressed. There's a reason the team had trouble scoring. There's a reason they struggled in the red zone, and there's a reason they couldn't pick up third/fourth and short yardage, and it isn't all EJ.
YardRat Wall of Fame #56 DARRYL TALLEY #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS
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Marrone and Whaley have been around long enough in this league to know what they saw unfolding in front of them through 5 preseason games was unsettling at best. They saw a first team offense they couldn’t score a single TD despite numerous talented skill position players. They also saw a QB making dangerous throws to those skill players putting them in a position to get injured
The fans also saw the same thing and as can be expected the excuses started flowing as they did for Losman, Bledsoe, and Johnson before him. It’s Hackett, it’s the OL, it’s the preseason so its vanilla. Problem was it is none of those things as it hasn’t been in the past. No the problem is EJ Manuel. He has shown no progress from last year to this year and it could actually be argued that he has regressed. He is having trouble executing a vanilla scheme and playbook compounded with an inability to read defenses topped off with erratic at best accuracy. These issues go beyond the preseason and are not all of a sudden going to be cured when the regular season begins and the speed and pressure in the games gets maxed out times 100.
They can talk all they want about how concerned they were about the back up position...but a single TD drive in 5 games for the offense is the real concern.
Orton was brought in to be as much of a relief pitcher as he was a back up.
You can talk all you want about the hope of the light going on for EJ, but how long do you let him drag down and offense the team?
If he continues to play like he did in preseason, expect the change no later than the bye week.
IF EJ gets over his internal doubts and just plays read and shoot..without as much thinking...he can improve his stock tremendously. If not, he's heading right into Edwardsville. Its up to him.
This is very bad news.
Orton sucks. He has always sucked, and he always will suck.
If he gets the starting position this year, the Bills are really, really screwed. They will be searching for another three or four years for a QB solution.
It's too bad that we can't take a QB, even high, and let him develop without the pressure of starting.
Some can start right away, some can't.
Well see, yeah, that's the very thing. Manuel was a project QB. That thought was universal. Oh he had the skills and talent but needed time to learn everyone said.
So we didn't have a QB coach to help with the rookie OC. And we signed a mentor who was going nowhere. And didn't replace him with a vet.
So then we hired a bad QB coach who did poorly with Stafford (said to regress), but coached the fundamentals lacking Lewis. No mentor.
Boom, a mentor competitor under a bad QB coach and a probable lost OC.
They probably did the very worst job of developing a project QB possible, that any witless fool with a thought on how to develop a project QB would sort of immediately know better to not follow unless he was not a project QB.
There's the rub. Whaley and Marrone thought they drafted a project QB who was really polished to them and ready to start. He'd pick up the offense like nothing and step in, perfectly Aaron Rodgers. Whoop, better bring in Kolb. No no, he's ready ! Whoop, cut that Lewis guy, and sign hm....oh Orton !!! Tuel is not that important or we can get him on the practice squad, he wasn't as ready as we thought either when we were protecting them last year.
Downing ! Teach these men the craft like you did Stafford.....
It's too bad that we can't take a QB, even high, and let him develop without the pressure of starting.
Some can start right away, some can't.
Well..this might be his opportunity to sit for a while and learn.
If he gets replaced by Orton, during the season, I still don't consider it a death shot. Much of that depends on how he handles the adversity. Young pitchers get sent down to the minors all the time.
I just know you can't lead one TD drive in 5 games and expect to start. And there were many opportunities to score.
Well..this might be his opportunity to sit for a while and learn.
If he gets replaced by Orton, during the season, I still don't consider it a death shot. Much of that depends on how he handles the adversity. Young pitchers get sent down to the minors all the time.
I just know you can't lead one TD drive in 5 games and expect to start. And there were many opportunities to score.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Interesting. Come to think about it, historically, the Bills have a very poor history of developing QBs. Ferguson is the only successful QB developed by the Bills that I can think of. The others all learned the ropes someplace else.
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