Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

[gebobs]

Disagree, the defense would have been fired up as would be the crowd.

Disagree about what? I didn't say WHEN, I said IF.

Most likely case the Bills get the ball back on downs, but I think a safety would be more likely than the Fins scoring.

There was no chance of a safety. The Dolphins would have gotten the ball on their 20.

[Meathead]

Certainly. But what do YOU think happened? Forget about indisputable proof. What's your opinion?

people are often so annoying when it comes to stuff like this

yeah, we KNOW what the refs called. yeah, we KNOW the play was supposed to be automatically reviewed by booth officials. the game is over, the bills lose nothing if you express a contrary opinion here

yet ask the question and suddenly everybody turns into sergeant schultz

[better days]

It was a fumble...end of story.

If roles were reversed we'd be *****ing about that play all week.

Bottom line: it's nice to be getting these calls for a change. Just like Chandler's hold that let EJ walk into the endzone last week.

Disagree, Watkins had control before the ball touched the pylon.

[Ed]

There's really no way to conclusively say if he's holding the ball or not with his right hand just before it hits the pylon. The ruling on the field would have had to stand either way they called it.

[Meathead]

It was a fumble...end of story.

If roles were reversed we'd be *****ing about that play all week.

after i saw the replay for the first time im standing in front of the tv going 'kick the pat ..., kick the damn pat now ..., WOULD YOU KICK THE ****ING PAT FOR DOGS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!'

[Meathead]

There's really no way to conclusively say if he's holding the ball or not with his right hand just before it hits the pylon. The ruling on the field would have had to stand either way they called it.

once again, the question isnt what the refs called or what the replay process is, the question is do YOU think it was a fumble

[better days]

Disagree about what? I didn't say WHEN, I said IF.


There was no chance of a safety. The Dolphins would have gotten the ball on their 20.

In the first half, the Bills pushed the Fins back 32 yards! 20 yards is NOTHING.

First Down: False Start. 5 yd penalty.

Still First Down on the 15 yd line: Tannehill dropped for a 8 yd loss.

Second Down on the 7 yd line: False start 5 yd penalty.

Still second Down on the 2 yd line: Kyle drops Tannehill for a Safety.

[Novacane]

once again, the question isnt what the refs called or what the replay process is, the question is do YOU think it was a fumble

That's the point. For me I'm not sure. At first look I thought it was a touchback. Like you I was screaming hurry up and kick the damn pat! After watching again and again it looks like Sammy squeezed the bobbling ball with his right hand an instant before it hit the pylon and came out again. Is that enough to re-establish possession? I don't know. If the call had gone against us I really couldn't of *****ed about it.

[gebobs]

In the first half, the Bills pushed the Fins back 32 yards! 20 yards is NOTHING.

You think the Bills chances of pushing the Dolphins back from the 20 to get a safety is more likely than there scoring a touchdown.

That is completely asinine. Just be a man and admit you thought the ball would be placed inside the 1 yard line. No one in the world is going to believe you actually think a safety from the 20 was more likely than a Dolphins TD. Only a moron would think that.

[Historian]

Who give a ****?

We won.

On to the Chargers.

[better days]

You think the Bills chances of pushing the Dolphins back from the 20 to get a safety is more likely than there scoring a touchdown.

That is completely asinine. Just be a man and admit you thought the ball would be placed inside the 1 yard line. No one in the world is going to believe you actually think a safety from the 20 was more likely than a Dolphins TD. Only a moron would think that.

I know the ball would be placed on the 20 if it were ruled a touchback, and someone even commented on that before you & I started this discussion.

My point was the Fins were NOT going to score even if they got the ball back.

[jimmifli]

I thought it was a fumble touchback. I even think there's enough evidence to overturn it.

I also think this is a case where a huge call went in our favour and we barely talked about it for two days. When these calls go against us the typical fan reaction is that the NFL is rigged and the Bills ALWAYS get hosed on these kinds of calls. We don't, we just don't remember these calls as the reason we won, but we always remember them as the reason we lost.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

after i saw the replay for the first time im standing in front of the tv going 'kick the pat ..., kick the damn pat now ..., WOULD YOU KICK THE ****ING PAT FOR DOGS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!'

You can't out run an official review by running the next play iiuc. The on field ref won't signal ready to play until the booth clears him to.

[Ingtar33]

looked like a fumble to me. but it was close enough i'm not sure i would have overturned the on field call if i was in charge of a replay review. He clearly bobbles it on the 2, i'm not sure he ever regains control of it, he stretches out for the goal line and it looks like the ball it out of his hand PRIOR to hitting the pilon (almost like he threw the ball over the goal line). The positioning of his hand makes it impossible to judge if he had control when the ball crosses the goal line. the defender's arm also makes it impossible to tell if he ever regains control over the football after the bobble on the 2 yard line.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

as you can see from these boards, im not a complainer (except about the rirs in prs). i havent *****ed about anything and loved this win

but being completely honest here, that ball was moving before he tried to get it into two hands so he could reach for the pylon. further, its very questionable whether he ever got full control of the ball the second time before jamming it onto the pylon, and honestly i dont think he did

if im a ref and get a look at that replay i think im reversing the td and giving the fish the ball at the twenty

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/vi...5-2a9d4e9794b7

I think a question of equal importance is "did Don Beebe really score a TD against Houston or did he step out of bounds before making the catch?"

[Ed]

once again, the question isnt what the refs called or what the replay process is, the question is do YOU think it was a fumble

I understand the question, but my answer is I'm not sure and I don't think there's any way for anyone to really tell either way. All we're doing is guessing. We've seen Watkins make some impressive one handed plays so it's not like he couldn't have grabbed it and had control with one hand before it hits the pylon. From the still shot and replay it looks like his hand is holding the ball, but it's impossible to know if he truly had control. We know the ball comes loose and then he gets his hand on it before hitting the pylon. I'm not really sure about anything else, but we're all biased Bills fans, so it's not hard to believe he had control.

[Night Train]

Borderline.

[ICRockets]

Either way, what a heads-up play by Sammy. Cool under pressure, he made the effort not only to regain control of the ball, but to hit the pylon. That's some excellent awareness for a rookie in his 2nd game.

[chernobylwraiths]

I'm not sure either, but I thought it could have been called a fumble.

If he reaches out with the ball in one hand, that would seem to me as he has clearly reestablished possesion. And, as long as the skin of the ball has hit the goal line while in his possesion, then it is a TD. If the ball is hitting the pilon like it has in this case, it has already crossed the goal line as the ball clearly hit the inside of the pilon.

[Mad Bomber]

Everyone is talking about "the ball touching the pylon". As soon as the tip of the ball breaks the plane of the goal line it's a touchdown. It touched the pylon after it had already broken the plane.

Touchdown.