Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

[gebobs]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

clearly you have to lose posession of the ball before it becomes a fumble. If its in your hand and your holding it, wouldn't the actual speration from the hand determine when its a fumble?

Not exactly. What if when Spiller was showboating on his return TD, instead he decided to hold the ball out in front of himself as he crossed the 10 yard line, palm up. To the horror of Bills fans watching, we see the ball begin to roll off his hand. Replays show clearly that as the ball breaks the plane, it is perched precariously on the tip of his middle finger.

Though the ball is still touching his hand, does he have possession? No, I think not.

[stuckincincy]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Not exactly. What if when Spiller was showboating on his return TD, instead he decided to hold the ball out in front of himself as he crossed the 10 yard line, palm up. To the horror of Bills fans watching, we see the ball begin to roll off his hand. Replays show clearly that as the ball breaks the plane, it is perched precariously on the tip of his middle finger.

Though the ball is still touching his hand, does he have possession? No, I think not.

I suppose. But wouldn't be dumb to call such a fumble? Grind down a fine effort down to such a lever - find fault at the atomic level?

[Buffalogic]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

It was a fumble and should have been a touchback. But it wasn't called that way so it is a touchdown and it will always be a touchdown. Good job Sammy, just hold onto the ball a weeeee bit longer.

[Goobylal]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

No, three games out of 16. Momentum shifts happen regularly. QED.

Baseless assertions such as "The momentum of the game was never going to shift in the Dolphins favor" mean nothing.

The officials are part of the game just like everything else and certainly can influence momentum.

Okay, it was highly unlikely to shift. Based on just (alright, I'll give you) 3 out of 32 games.

No kidding. The question is what happened BEFORE the ball hit the pylon. Specifically, did Watkins have control of the ball. There is no objective fact to the matter. I'm not sure Watkins knows. But there is enough to be seen from the replay to introduce some doubt.

We all know how it was ruled and we all know that the ruling was upheld. IMHO, the replay officials made the right call...no incontrovertible evidence to overturn. And forget about the officials on the field. If we can't say definitively one way or the other after looking at the replay again and again in slow motion, it's unlikely that they had a better view seeing it once at full speed.

He definitely had control of it. After Grimes jarred it loose, he trapped the ball against his chest and then extended it to get it over the goalline. Without control of it, the ball doesn't go exactly where his hand goes. And had it been ruled a fumble, I'd have challenged and expected it to be overturned because the ball traveled with his hand as he extended it.

[gebobs]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Okay, it was highly unlikely to shift. Based on just (alright, I'll give you) 3 out of 32 games.

LOL...I just picked three games that had good examples. There are momentum shifts of varying magnitude in every game. Are you even more clueless about football than politics? Is it possible?

Anyone that has ever played or watched the game knows that momentum is key and games swing on it all the time. To assert that some particular game, your game, is somehow immune to that reality is mere had waving. That's sort of par for the course for you so not so surprising.

He definitely had control of it. After Grimes jarred it loose, he trapped the ball against his chest and then extended it to get it over the goalline. Without control of it, the ball doesn't go exactly where his hand goes. And had it been ruled a fumble, I'd have challenged and expected it to be overturned because the ball traveled with his hand as he extended it.

You seem to think that strongly asserting opinions makes them fact. You should be a preacher.

[Goobylal]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

LOL...I just picked three games that had good examples. There are momentum shifts of varying magnitude in every game. Are you even more clueless about football than politics? Is it possible?

Anyone that has ever played or watched the game knows that momentum is key and games swing on it all the time. To assert that some particular game, your game, is somehow immune to that reality is mere had waving. That's sort of par for the course for you so not so surprising.

Maybe we should do a poll on it? But no, you'd conveniently ignore/dismiss it, like you do polls about a certain special someone.

You seem to think that strongly asserting opinions makes them fact. You should be a preacher.

It's not an opinion. It's called observation and understanding physics. Something which you can't comprehend.

[Figster]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Not exactly. What if when Spiller was showboating on his return TD, instead he decided to hold the ball out in front of himself as he crossed the 10 yard line, palm up. To the horror of Bills fans watching, we see the ball begin to roll off his hand. Replays show clearly that as the ball breaks the plane, it is perched precariously on the tip of his middle finger.

Though the ball is still touching his hand, does he have possession? No, I think not.

This was a bang, bang play, he had a posession and a split second later lost his grip, and as previously posted the pylon is a vertical reprsentation of the goalline which he had crossed before this happened IMO.

[gebobs]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Maybe we should do a poll on it? But no, you'd conveniently ignore/dismiss it, like you do polls about a certain special someone.

Maybe you should just nut up and admit you were wrong. Thinking a safety was more likely than a Dolphins TD is asinine and stupid.

It's not an opinion. It's called observation and understanding physics. Something which you can't comprehend.

Could you please learn me some physics, perfesser? LOL...I've forgotten more about physics than you'll ever know.

[stuckincincy]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Maybe you should just nut up and admit you were wrong. Thinking a safety was more likely than a Dolphins TD is asinine and stupid.


Could you please learn me some physics, perfesser? LOL...I've forgotten more about physics than you'll ever know.

I tried to cook up a dot product joke but was unsuccessful...

[Goobylal]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Maybe you should just nut up and admit you were wrong. Thinking a safety was more likely than a Dolphins TD is asinine and stupid.

What? Who the hell said anything about a safety? If the play had been (incorrectly) ruled a touchback, it would have been 16-10 and the Dols would have gotten the ball at the 20. Since they didn't score a single point after that play, the momentum actually never shifted. Maybe it might have, but what happened is it didn't. So there's nothing for me to admit I was wrong about.

Could you please learn me some physics, perfesser? LOL...I've forgotten more about physics than you'll ever know.

It's obvious you've forgotten a lot about physics. But don't pretend you know how much I still remember.

[yordad]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Seriously... I am a ref. This is easy. He extended his hand w the ball in it. Not hard. That is posession. He lost it when he hit the pylon. That is a TD. Gesh.

[gebobs]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

At any rate, I think it's fair to say the rush to PAT was a bit odd considering. I just watched the first three quarters again. I tried to watch that play and the ensuing replays from a Dolphins fan perspective. They showed a replay with a great view but his hand is moving too fast to see anything clearly. But if I was a Dollies fan, I'd be screaming fumble. And then they cut away and the Bills are lining up to kick. It was surprising.

That CBS officiating analyst is pretty lame.

[gebobs]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Another thing I recalled having watched the game again is just how precarious the lead was when the fumble happened. Though the Spiller return quenched much of the momentum the Dolphins got after that amazing one-handed TD by Wallace, the Bills still were 0-fer-the-red zone, the offense had not been on the field at all the entire 3rd quarter prior to that drive, and the Dollies had ripped off two totaling 11 minutes of possession.

The Bills shoot another blank and turn the ball over in the process, the game could have easily gotten ugly for us. Instead, they went punt, downs, muff, downs, int. Loverly.

[Figster]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

The rule itself should be changed IMO.

If the Offense on the field is the last team to have possession of the football can anyone give me any logical reason why the football is given to the opposing team.

It makes no sense...

[Meathead]

Re: Was Sammy's TD really a TD or was it a fumble?

Another thing I recalled having watched the game again is just how precarious the lead was when the fumble happened. Though the Spiller return quenched much of the momentum the Dolphins got after that amazing one-handed TD by Wallace, the Bills still were 0-fer-the-red zone, the offense had not been on the field at all the entire 3rd quarter prior to that drive, and the Dollies had ripped off two totaling 11 minutes of possession.

The Bills shoot another blank and turn the ball over in the process, the game could have easily gotten ugly for us.

exactly. thats why it was such a huge freakin play, and would have been an even huger play if it had been called a fumble and given to the fish at the twenty. im happy with the call but thats now how i woulda called it. so whew