What's the Difference?

[The King]

We're 2-0 with wins against solid opponents, but much like most Bills fans I have a hard time enjoying it because I just feel like the wheels are going to come off. They always seem to.

So whats the difference this time? Why does this feel better than 2011 or 2008? How do we know this is real?

Has Whaley constructed a team that's simply better than most?
Is Marrone coaching these players up?
Has the mentality of this team finally changed? If so as a fan how long before the doom and gloom is lifted?

And if we are finally moving in the right direction how many wins does it take to keep these pieces in place?

Making the playoffs would be exciting but I want to win the division, I want to dethrone the Patriots, I want to be able to bask in the sunlight of a football team people are afraid of.

[OpIv37]

I think a big reason why the 2008 and 2011 teams failed was that they were one dimensional on O. Once other teams figured out what they were doing, they were unable to adjust.

Is this team different? I really don't know. They have more talent than those earlier teams at the skill positions, but it depends on EJ and the OL continuing to play well and the coaches being creative enough to keep the offense evolving once other teams figure out what they are doing.

The D will be fine as long as the O can stay on the field.

[trapezeus]

differences:

1. more balance like op said, lack of reliance of having fitz have to be the man, or trent playing well. it comes from a number of people
2. not beating bad teams. our opponents beat SF in SF and NE.
3. the team isn't crumbling when adversity strikes. bad ref calls or having an opponent take control for a portion of the game doesn't have the wheels come off.
4. the OL is not a penalty machine.

i am with you and waiting for this to fall apart, but i have to say, bills seasons are more fun when it hurts a little. when they just suck out the gate, it just becomes boring. when there is a reason to billieve, even if it doesn't work out the way you want, it's much more fun. i'd take another meltdown over a slow bleed boring season any day of the week.

[djjimkelly]

there are major differences

for 1 NO DICK to run the ball 3 times then punt.

2 our roster is littered with high draft pick talent this time around

3 our qb can actually make all the throws

[Topas]

Well, actually I am not sure if it feels that much different. IIRC I was pumped also back then.

But probably you are right, it feels slightly different because:
- Marrone is our best coach since Marv or at least since Wade. The jury is still out but I am confident that this is true. I actually think Whaley gets too much credit for his drafting because Marrone coaches the player up
- the team is the bully instead of being bullied

The again, there is still a strong possibility that future teams will be better in exposing EJ. Hopefully not.

[Skooby]

We have depth now unlike previous years. When one of our players takes a rest, the drop off in talent isn't noticeable & there's a chance the replacement is better (See Graham).

[Fletch]

We'll see if there's more balance in the coming weeks. I don't think that there is. I think that Manuel's still the same Manuel and the newness of Watkins hasn't worn off yet and seen the reality that he's not going to be superman hit here yet. Equally concerning to Watkins' first 100-yard game should be Woods and Williams combining for 2 catches for 8 yards.

The defense had trouble stopping the run in the only game in which we faced a decent RB, so that's TBD too, but since it was supposed to be the strength of our D it should be cause for concern. The fact that we shut down Lamar Miller and an undrafted rookie free agent doesn't say much.

Neither does allowing over 400 yards offense to Chicago and a grand second half to Miami with 228 net yards and 17 1st downs. So really we've played 2 or 3 quarters of good defense.

This is the post you've been waiting for, isn't it.



Have at it.

A. I can't wait for the team to lose. Check
B. I care more about being right than about my own team winning. Check
C. The Bills really aren't my team. Check
D. I said something in there that makes it impossible for some posters to not see that it wasn't a personal insult. Check

[GreedoII]

Depth and better D. The D in 2011 was bad. in 2008 Dickless Jauron was the problem as well as injuries and zero depth

[elltrain22]

Some differences I see (so far):

(in no particular order)

1. Way more talent. We have a very good O & D-line. Good WR's that will only improve, good tandem of RB's, better defense (esp the front 7), and so far, a QB who can move the chains and not turn the ball over

2. With Sammy, CJ, Fred, Robert Woods, and EJ Manuel that is an array of offensive talent that is legit.

3. Our defensive front 4 might be the best in the league

4. We have a stable of good young players.

5. Better coaching in a long time

6. Our competition in the AFC east is leveling out, it seems.

[The King]

I just dug into this a little bit too. We've "homegrown" 13 starters since the 2011 draft.

2011
1- Dareus
2- Aaron Williams
4- Searcy

2012
1- Gilmore
2- Glenn
3- Bradham

2013
1- Manuel
2- Woods
2- Kiko
UD- Robey

2014
1- Watkins
3- Brown
7-Henderson

[ServoBillieves]

1) Depth, as stated numerous times above. There is little to no drop off in talent when starters are resting and so forth.
2) Playing 60 minutes of football. IIRC the teams from before would do the "Hey we're winning, let's play extremely conservative!". (But Servo, they ran the ball late in the 4th in the red zone!) Yes, they did, while they were up 2 scores and a FG would net them a 3 score lead. That may be conservative but that's also clock management and smart.
3) Opponent statistics are inflated by catch-up and prevent yards. There was a point in the game last weekend that the Bills had 190+ yards compared to the Dolphins 33. The defense is no joke. Also, when Dareus went out, did anyone notice until it was mentioned? I'm astonished the All-Pro announcing team didn't comment that Marcus Stroud had cramps.

Three things that doomed those good starts before: Injuries, QB play, and coaching. These are all things that where the Bills stand preparing for week 3 we have no clue how that will develop. But, let me say that EJ has surprised and not had a bad game yet. The coach hasn't made any crazy stupid calls yet. We still have an uphill battle against refs, injuries... Who knows. The fear, doom and gloom was losing Kiko for the year, and Week 1 we were down Bradham, and are now without Rivers, with to a lesser extent losing Sylvester for the year. That's the beginning of our yearly injury curse right there...

But unlike in the past, we have players who can make the leap and fill in. Hell, Spikes barely played last week and we were still dominant on D.

The 8 ball says good things are coming, but I'm waiting for the wheels to come off.

[justasportsfan]

It's early but IMO so far it's coaching.

Marrone always stated that as a HC you have to be like a CEO of the entire program. Under Dick Jauron and Gailey, they were at the mercy of their assistant coaches to know what they are doing.

Dick Jauron didn't know the offensive side of things and had several unproven OC's that he even had to fire Turk right before the season started. You can't do that and expect to succeed. He also forced his OC's to run his philosophy of playing not to lose. Be conservative and take what the D gives you rather than force you will against the D force them make the adjustments.

Gailey knew Wanny from his time in Miami and didn't know that the game had evolved passed Wanny's head.


A few successful coaches that come to mind who were true CEO's of their program were Marv, Cowher and Bellicheat. They all had a handle on everything that goes on in every unit. Dick, Mularkey, Greg Williams, Gailey were nothing but coordinators who were in over their head.

Marrone as a CEO did his homework when looking up his assistant coaches. He did that with Pettine and now Schwartz. Hackett is still a question mark and so far, he gave Crossman weapons on ST and seems to be working up to this point.

[Bill Cody]

So far the O line has looked pretty good. You have a young QB that is still green. If he gets good OL play that's going to be huge for his development. It still all comes down to that.

[sukie]

Until we beat NE it feels no different aside from the delight in watching Sammy Watkins with sore ribs and dreaming of the day we see him healthy.

[ublinkwescore]

does any one ever read fletch's comments? I don't...

[ublinkwescore]

Until we beat NE it feels no different aside from the delight in watching Sammy Watkins with sore ribs and dreaming of the day we see him healthy.

this. and we should be undefeated going in to our game against New England. and if we are undefeated after New England pays us a visit, I would be all in on the band wagon - and with a big "Thanks Cleveland, your first from us will be in the 20s.

[JohnnyGold]

does any one ever read fletch's comments? I don't...

I do. You would be wise to.

The Bills are a historically inept franchise, save for what amounts to 6 years of success. For a franchise that has been around for close to 60 years, that amounts to them being downright bad 90% of the time. Just because someone is "realistic" about that scenario does not mean that they are not a fan. How could anyone be accused of not being a fan: I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily follow this club only for the sake of being negative. No, Fletch brings up good, relevant points very often.

If, heaven forbid, a close family member (or yourself) ever receives a "terminal" diagnosis, I assure you, the doctors are not being "mean", and you can not "not read/believe" their diagnosis just because it is uncomfortable for you.

With that being said, the team has not received a terminal diagnosis, so I would enjoy if Fletch could be more forthcoming with his loyalty/optimism for the team. Surely it must exist at some level--I find it hard to believe anyone isn't excited and hoping for a win every Sunday at 12:59 pm. It's everything that happens after kickoff (and for the rest of the week), where things have historically fallen apart for the Bills.

On to the question at hand: truthfully, I'm more worried this season than either of those 2 seasons that have been mentioned. In 2008, I had a tremendous amount of confidence in Edwards going into the season: he showed quite a bit in the previous season after taking over for Losman. Going into Cleveland (snow globe game) in 2007, the Bills were very much alive for a wildcard, with Edwards at the helm. Obviously we lost that game in boring fashion, but going into the next year, I expected them to contend for a wildcard. Seeing them start 5-1 did nothing to dissuade that, and it was quite shocking the extent to which they fell apart. That Monday nighter against Cleveland where we lost by a last second missed field goal was/is one of the most underrated Bills heartbreakers of all time.

With Fitz in 2011, again, I had a ton of confidence in that team. If you recall the season before, we started 0-8 and finished 4-4. And in those first 8 games, there were a few times (Ravens, Chiefs) where there was ample opportunities to win, and in the second half, there were games against Pittsburgh where it really seemed like we had arrived. Starting 3-0, in hindsight, might have been a fluke, but to me, that's revisionist history. I thought that team had a good offense, and could score at will--Fredex in his prime, a young Spiller, and Stevie catching everything.

That brings us to now. Nothing they showed me/us last year made me think this team was for real, aside from the defense. They have played well in the first 2 games, HOWEVER, they can't finish in the redzone, and this is being completely glossed over/marginalized. It's 2014 in the NFL--you need to be able to score points. I think this game against San Diego will be very telling. 100% of my being hopes we come out, light it up, and dominate--but I just don't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong. More than anything I've ever said about the Bills, I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd love to be quoted into Bolivia about being pessimistic and wrong as the Bills go 11-5, host a wildcard game, and are a "sexy super bowl" pick next year. But I'm going to need to see EJ finish some drives with 6 points this weekend/going forward. The great thing about a team with a young qb is, that could happen at any time. He already looks better than last year, but just not good enough.

And how anyone could say that this team gives you more confidence than those other teams? It's wild: those other teams had QBs who were in the zone, were throwing it all over the yard, were making highlight reel plays, were getting lucky, and were winning. EJ is managing the game. No mistakes, to be sure, but that game against Miami could have been over after 1 last week. Instead, it was very much in doubt until the end of the third. That won't fly against New England, Denver, Cincy, Indy, or SD: ie, the teams we'll play in the playoffs.

[justasportsfan]

I do. You would be wise to.

The Bills are a historically inept franchise, save for what amounts to 6 years of success. For a franchise that has been around for close to 60 years, that amounts to them being downright bad 90% of the time. Just because someone is "realistic" about that scenario does not mean that they are not a fan. How could anyone be accused of not being a fan: I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily follow this club only for the sake of being negative. No, Fletch brings up good, relevant points very often.

If, heaven forbid, a close family member (or yourself) ever receives a "terminal" diagnosis, I assure you, the doctors are not being "mean", and you can not "not read/believe" their diagnosis just because it is uncomfortable for you.

With that being said, the team has not received a terminal diagnosis, so I would enjoy if Fletch could be more forthcoming with his loyalty/optimism for the team. Surely it must exist at some level--I find it hard to believe anyone isn't excited and hoping for a win every Sunday at 12:59 pm. It's everything that happens after kickoff (and for the rest of the week), where things have historically fallen apart for the Bills.

On to the question at hand: truthfully, I'm more worried this season than either of those 2 seasons that have been mentioned. In 2008, I had a tremendous amount of confidence in Edwards going into the season: he showed quite a bit in the previous season after taking over for Losman. Going into Cleveland (snow globe game) in 2007, the Bills were very much alive for a wildcard, with Edwards at the helm. Obviously we lost that game in boring fashion, but going into the next year, I expected them to contend for a wildcard. Seeing them start 5-1 did nothing to dissuade that, and it was quite shocking the extent to which they fell apart. That Monday nighter against Cleveland where we lost by a last second missed field goal was/is one of the most underrated Bills heartbreakers of all time.

With Fitz in 2011, again, I had a ton of confidence in that team. If you recall the season before, we started 0-8 and finished 4-4. And in those first 8 games, there were a few times (Ravens, Chiefs) where there was ample opportunities to win, and in the second half, there were games against Pittsburgh where it really seemed like we had arrived. Starting 3-0, in hindsight, might have been a fluke, but to me, that's revisionist history. I thought that team had a good offense, and could score at will--Fredex in his prime, a young Spiller, and Stevie catching everything.

That brings us to now. Nothing they showed me/us last year made me think this team was for real, aside from the defense. They have played well in the first 2 games, HOWEVER, they can't finish in the redzone, and this is being completely glossed over/marginalized. It's 2014 in the NFL--you need to be able to score points. I think this game against San Diego will be very telling. 100% of my being hopes we come out, light it up, and dominate--but I just don't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong. More than anything I've ever said about the Bills, I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd love to be quoted into Bolivia about being pessimistic and wrong as the Bills go 11-5, host a wildcard game, and are a "sexy super bowl" pick next year. But I'm going to need to see EJ finish some drives with 6 points this weekend/going forward. The great thing about a team with a young qb is, that could happen at any time. He already looks better than last year, but just not good enough.

And how anyone could say that this team gives you more confidence than those other teams? It's wild: those other teams had QBs who were in the zone, were throwing it all over the yard, were making highlight reel plays, were getting lucky, and were winning. EJ is managing the game. No mistakes, to be sure, but that game against Miami could have been over after 1 last week. Instead, it was very much in doubt until the end of the third. That won't fly against New England, Denver, Cincy, Indy, or SD: ie, the teams we'll play in the playoffs.

Na, I'd rather read OP's pessimistic posts. While OP like Fletch would rather harp on the negatives, OP doesn't seem to wish the bills would lose just so that he can say he was right.

[Meathead]

doesnt feel different at all

fact is, every season you have two-ish teams that are really good and two-ish that are really bad. for the other twenty-eight teams its really all about good old fashioned luck. how many injuries do you have compared to your opponents and at what positions? did you win a couple of key replay reviews in a row or lose them? did that ball go two inches to the left or two inches to the right?

we pretend like our team either willed themselves to victory or stood around watching the other team do it. but really, for those middle pack teams its just a big huge dice roll. and just like dice you can roll a bunch of sevens in a row or a whole boatload of craps

just gotta wait and see which one it is

[jimmifli]

Both lines have dominated their opponents. When that happens you win a lot of football games.

The Dline is for real, the depth is great and they were even beating Miami's line. The OL is still a huge question mark. Chicago's Dline sucked, Miami's was supposed to be good.

If they can keep making pockets and opening holes I'll give them a pass on not being able to pull or screen.