what makes this feel ok?

[trapezeus]

We are where we are now with the QB change. What makes you feel like it was a success or worth it?

1. an 8-8 record or better?
2. a playoff appearance
3. a playoff win?

For me, shortterm, if we can avoid handing over a top 10 pick, it will have been worth saving face.

in the long term, i don't see the benefit aside from not looking foolish. If Kyle Orton is the .500 qb we know his stats to say he is, i still don't know if i feel like he's the answer long term. and the rest of the team is built to win now. So short of orton winning the superbowl for us, i don't see how this change helps us. i feel like next year's draft onward will be very difficult for whoever is running the team. keep building and hope orton is servicable or tear it down, fire everyone and start over asking bills fans to be patient again.

both scenarios irritate me.

[better days]

After 14 years out of the playoffs, I think just getting in will make Orton starting OK.

Especially since the Browns have our first pick in the draft.

[The Jokeman]

We are where we are now with the QB change. What makes you feel like it was a success or worth it?

1. an 8-8 record or better?
2. a playoff appearance
3. a playoff win?

For me, shortterm, if we can avoid handing over a top 10 pick, it will have been worth saving face.

in the long term, i don't see the benefit aside from not looking foolish. If Kyle Orton is the .500 qb we know his stats to say he is, i still don't know if i feel like he's the answer long term. and the rest of the team is built to win now. So short of orton winning the superbowl for us, i don't see how this change helps us. i feel like next year's draft onward will be very difficult for whoever is running the team. keep building and hope orton is servicable or tear it down, fire everyone and start over asking bills fans to be patient again.

both scenarios irritate me.

It might energize the franchise and maybe allow guys to stick around (see Spikes and/or Spiller) a few more years when their contracts ends. Yet you're right if the ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl over the next few years that likely won't happen. So I will applaud the move as a Bills fan who so wants to be better than we've been over the last few years but I question the benefit of this for the long term. As is reliving 1998/1999 realy worth having to relive 2000-2013 that followed?

[imbondz]

at this rate/stage, our goal should be not to lose 3 games in a row, that's the ceiling.


Has Orten ever been in the playoffs as a starter? We are delusional to think a 31 yr old, 35-35 career QB, who just retired 5 months ago, is going to come in and magically win more than he loses, and be a playoff QB . I still have more hope w him starting than EJ, but it's like 1-1.2% more hope. Obviously I hope i'm 100% wrong.

[feldspar]

Say whatever you want, but the Bills are technically first in the division right now, and it's one-quarter of the way through the season.

You play the guy that gives you the best chance to win, and there is nothing else apart from that.

We'll see what Orton does, but I don't see any benefit of sticking with EJ at this point. The correct decision was made IMO no matter how it turns out. The Bills HAD to see what the team would look like with Orton at the helm. I do not second-guess this decision after seeing how Manuel has been playing. It's all about competition. EJ has been dragging this team down.

[The Jokeman]

at this rate/stage, our goal should be not to lose 3 games in a row, that's the ceiling.


Has Orten ever been in the playoffs as a starter? We are delusional to think a 31 yr old, 35-35 career QB, who just retired 5 months ago, is going to come in and magically win more than he loses, and be a playoff QB . I still have more hope w him starting than EJ, but it's like 1-1.2% more hope. Obviously I hope i'm 100% wrong.

If look at http://www.pro-football-reference.co...Ky00/gamelog/s it would appear that Orton has never appeared in an NFL playoff game.

[The Jokeman]

Say whatever you want, but the Bills are technically first in the division right now, and it's one-quarter of the way through the season.

You play the guy that gives you the best chance to win, and there is nothing else apart from that.

We'll see what Orton does, but I don't see any benefit of sticking with EJ at this point. The correct decision was made IMO no matter how it turns out. The Bills HAD to see what the team would look like with Orton at the helm. I do not second-guess this decision after seeing how Manuel has been playing. It's all about competition. EJ has been dragging this team down.

In one spot you applaud the Bills for being in 1st place and then dismiss EJ's contribution. I understand he hasn't been as good in the last two games as he was in his first two. Yet if you look at the history of QBs most do have struggles losing games. I remember Rodger's first year and he had a 4 game stretch where the Packers lost each game and the team didn't make the playoffs. Yet stuck with Rodgers and as they say the rest is history.

[Meathead]

with so many young guys it would be enormously beneficial for them to have the experience of a playoff game or even just a realistic run trying to get in. it would also help attract free agents and keep more of the ones we got

[trapezeus]

part of me would just hate seeing whaley, brandon get credit for putting the team in a horrible bind. yes, orton probably will have a little more success than EJ. But they picked him.

These guys have been with the team a very long time and regardless of their input, people don't have 6 year careers (whaleY) or 15 year careers (brandon) in their positions on teams that have been this bad. It's really inexcusable.

yeah, i want the bills to win, but even if orton can do the unthinkable and just crank out the wins, the top of one bills drive needs to go. this change at QB should be the most damning in years worth of incompetence. No more shuffling blame around to other people. These guys are the problem.

and that's where its kind of depressing to think regardless of how this season is going, we could be looking at another rebuild on a team that had some pieces to it. unlike the jauron and gailey teams that were still largely talentless.

[feldspar]

at this rate/stage, our goal should be not to lose 3 games in a row, that's the ceiling.


Has Orten ever been in the playoffs as a starter? We are delusional to think a 31 yr old, 35-35 career QB, who just retired 5 months ago, is going to come in and magically win more than he loses, and be a playoff QB . I still have more hope w him starting than EJ, but it's like 1-1.2% more hope. Obviously I hope i'm 100% wrong.

Orton never retired.

And he BROUGHT his team to the playoffs as a rookie.

Delusional would be sticking with EJ Manuel right now and thinking he's our best bet. At least now it's interesting again. Nobody else is really pulling away from the pack in our division. Did you see Brady play like horse-**** last night?

[The Jokeman]

part of me would just hate seeing whaley, brandon get credit for putting the team in a horrible bind. yes, orton probably will have a little more success than EJ. But they picked him.

These guys have been with the team a very long time and regardless of their input, people don't have 6 year careers (whaleY) or 15 year careers (brandon) in their positions on teams that have been this bad. It's really inexcusable.

yeah, i want the bills to win, but even if orton can do the unthinkable and just crank out the wins, the top of one bills drive needs to go. this change at QB should be the most damning in years worth of incompetence. No more shuffling blame around to other people. These guys are the problem.

and that's where its kind of depressing to think regardless of how this season is going, we could be looking at another rebuild on a team that had some pieces to it. unlike the jauron and gailey teams that were still largely talentless.

Why do people hate Brandon so much? His role is basically the marketing man for the team. I don't think he has any barring on the football decisions. Those are all on Whaley and while I question the trade for Watkins most of his moves thus far to me look better than bad. The EJ move is two sided. One sided it hurts we took him and he hasn't lived up to his draft status. The second side is he looks like he was the best QB available in the draft so maybe he did the best decision. Also it helps he got Woods and Alonso out of that draft. As well as Williams, Meeks and Gragg.

[TheBrownBear]

9-7 and/or playoffs at a minimum.

[feldspar]

In one spot you applaud the Bills for being in 1st place and then dismiss EJ's contribution. I understand he hasn't been as good in the last two games as he was in his first two. Yet if you look at the history of QBs most do have struggles losing games. I remember Rodger's first year and he had a 4 game stretch where the Packers lost each game and the team didn't make the playoffs. Yet stuck with Rodgers and as they say the rest is history.

I didn't "applaud the Bills." I merely stated a fact. The Bills are leading the division...it's a three-way tie record-wise, but they would win the tiebreaker at this time. Point in fact.

And we didn't win either of the first two games because of EJ Manuel. We certainly lost to the Texans because of him, no matter what anybody says. Played terribly against the Chargers as well.

Please do not bring Aaron Rodgers into this. That would be ridiculous.

The guy hasn't earned the right to start on this team right now, that's for sure. He had zero competition after Kolb went down before the season started last year. Freakin' Thad Lewis played just as well if not better when he was in there. Now Manuel has competition, and he lost...he lost fair and square and has nobody to blame but himself. Anybody that has been watching the Bills games this year with their eyes open can see that. We certainly don't owe him an unconditional chance to develop no matter how poorly he plays.

[justasportsfan]

Why do people hate Brandon so much? His role is basically the marketing man for the team. I don't think he has any barring on the football decisions. Those are all on Whaley and while I question the trade for Watkins most of his moves thus far to me look better than bad. The EJ move is two sided. One sided it hurts we took him and he hasn't lived up to his draft status. The second side is he looks like he was the best QB available in the draft so maybe he did the best decision. Also it helps he got Woods and Alonso out of that draft. As well as Williams, Meeks and Gragg.

it isn't clear as to how much of an input Russ had in personnel decisions in the past . But since he was on the team, might as well blame him for Maybin, Losman, Jauron, Fitz, Gailey,etc. If the bills fail based on who he hired and kept since becoming Pres/CEO he should get the blame, but if the team succeeds, he should not get credit.

[trapezeus]

Why do people hate Brandon so much? His role is basically the marketing man for the team. I don't think he has any barring on the football decisions. Those are all on Whaley and while I question the trade for Watkins most of his moves thus far to me look better than bad. The EJ move is two sided. One sided it hurts we took him and he hasn't lived up to his draft status. The second side is he looks like he was the best QB available in the draft so maybe he did the best decision. Also it helps he got Woods and Alonso out of that draft. As well as Williams, Meeks and Gragg.

Brandon was ralph's smithers. he is weaselly and gets too much credit for marketing genius. Selling a game to a different city isn't good business and it didn't even work. and he still renewed it. he said he was going to leave no stop unturned and they went marrone very quickly. Other teams looking for a coach at the time were the eagles, cardinals, bears, chiefs and chargers. All teams with better outlooks long term than us.

Only the the browns (rob chudzinski) and jags (gus bradley) are in worse shape than us. Honestly how does that ineptitude not fall on brandon when he said he was going to fix it. Five other teams can get it right? we can't? and we had the blankest slate of all those teams at the QB position. it was up to the GM and the president to put a coach in a position to succeed and they didn't. and they want to say other people didn't get it right?

That is why this team will always be terrible with brandon. he makes big mistakes, blames others, fires them, and then repeats his mistakes. why would competent people want to be on the one team that operates completely different from the other 31. it makes no sense.

[BOBM253]

Unfortunately EJ was a big mistake. I like the guy as a person but he's not an NFL caliber QB. Any veteran QB would be better than him. If its Orton, then so be it. Worry about the long term down the road. We really had no choice. I'm all onboard with Orton.

[The Jokeman]

Brandon was ralph's smithers. he is weaselly and gets too much credit for marketing genius. Selling a game to a different city isn't good business and it didn't even work. and he still renewed it. he said he was going to leave no stop unturned and they went marrone very quickly. Other teams looking for a coach at the time were the eagles, cardinals, bears, chiefs and chargers. All teams with better outlooks long term than us.

Only the the browns (rob chudzinski) and jags (gus bradley) are in worse shape than us. Honestly how does that ineptitude not fall on brandon when he said he was going to fix it. Five other teams can get it right? we can't? and we had the blankest slate of all those teams at the QB position. it was up to the GM and the president to put a coach in a position to succeed and they didn't. and they want to say other people didn't get it right?

That is why this team will always be terrible with brandon. he makes big mistakes, blames others, fires them, and then repeats his mistakes. why would competent people want to be on the one team that operates completely different from the other 31. it makes no sense.

Look back, what other options did the Bills have at fixing the QB position? I guess you could argue we could have taken the path the Tampa Bay Bucs took but I don't see their situation that much better than ours. Also I think you forgot to mention the Raiders as worse run organizations.

[trapezeus]

it isn't clear as to how much of an input Russ had in personnel decisions in the past . But since he was on the team, might as well blame him for Maybin, Losman, Jauron, Fitz, Gailey,etc. If the bills fail based on who he hired and kept since becoming Pres/CEO he should get the blame, but if the team succeeds, he should not get credit.

i know you love this angle that a senior manager just sat around and watched everyone else run their job. brandon was defacto owner during the end of ralph. let's not even saddle brandon with jauron years. but when he was the prominent face trying to find a coach and GM, he trotted out buddy nix. He trotted out gailey. retreads that no one liked as a choice. he was more than vocal about how much he liked trading for watkins. he spoke loudly about how he supported his GM picking EJ. He's stressed continuity just like his mentor. He said "no stone left unturned" and we got the 6th best option of the 8 coaches replaced that year.

true, we don't know how much input he has, but he didn't stop any of these mistakes as the CEO. That's what the position is about. Donahoe had better success in a shorter time and simply missed getting a qb. he got cut. Why is brandon so untouchable? and why would anyone defend him?

[The Jokeman]

I didn't "applaud the Bills." I merely stated a fact. The Bills are leading the division...it's a three-way tie record-wise, but they would win the tiebreaker at this time. Point in fact.

And we didn't win either of the first two games because of EJ Manuel. We certainly lost to the Texans because of him, no matter what anybody says. Played terribly against the Chargers as well.

Please do not bring Aaron Rodgers into this. That would be ridiculous.

The guy hasn't earned the right to start on this team right now, that's for sure. He had zero competition after Kolb went down before the season started last year. Freakin' Thad Lewis played just as well if not better when he was in there. Now Manuel has competition, and he lost...he lost fair and square and has nobody to blame but himself. Anybody that has been watching the Bills games this year with their eyes open can see that. We certainly don't owe him an unconditional chance to develop no matter how poorly he plays.

We owe it to the long term status of the franchise to see what he has is my argument. I agree he's been horrible the last two games. Yet I've seen what I deem worse QB play by other NFL QBs and they don't get benched. Time will tell how good/bad this decision is. As a fan that wants to see this team become an above average team year after year and am not sure that helps if think Orton is going to turn around this team this year only.

[trapezeus]

Look back, what other options did the Bills have at fixing the QB position? I guess you could argue we could have taken the path the Tampa Bay Bucs took but I don't see their situation that much better than ours. Also I think you forgot to mention the Raiders as worse run organizations.

oakland kind of stands on an island. we are the island next door. it's just that they made us so irrelevant at 7-9/6-10 most fans of the NFL don't care about us. Oakland is enjoyably bad. oh, and they were in the superbowl this millennium.

I think our QB situation is a result of several bad decisions. all of which brandon has overseen. until you have a top 5 qb, you should be drafting qb's routinely. but the bills see mediocre play and the settle on the journeyman. that's consistently happened. i bet you with brandon that if orton is .500, they'll avoid drafting a qb again and tell us, oh, it's fine. we just need a couple more pieces elsewhere.