The RB situations

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Finally Marrone and Co. are going to have their RBs now.

Think about it, they have their QB, WRs and are in the process of molding the OL to their version. It is clear CJ is not the kind of RB they preferred. Jackson is forced to take on a bigger role than they wanted.

Hence the attempt to trade up for Carlos Hyde in the draft and the eventual trade of Bryce Brown.

Dixon looks like the type RB they like, almost always 5 yard on 1st down carries. Just does not have the explosiveness. Now listening to Dixon post game, he's almost giddy about the opportunity he's going to have now that both CJ and Jackson are out.

http://media.wgr550.com/a/98236681/1...game-audio.htm

It's certainty they will sign some RB into their 53 by Tuesday. 3rd down back is the key - Jackson is ideal for that role. Now they have to change up some. I feel they have to design something to take all that pressure of blitz and rush pressure instead of just asking the backs to pickup blocking.

[HHURRICANE]

Finally Marrone and Co. are going to have their RBs now.

Think about it, they have their QB, WRs and are in the process of molding the OL to their version. It is clear CJ is not the kind of RB they preferred. Jackson is forced to take on bigger role than they wanted.

Hence the attempt to trade up for Carlos Hyde in the draft and the eventual trade of Bryce Brown.

Dixon looks like the type RB they like, almost always 5 yard on 1st down carries. Just does not have the explosiveness. Now listening to Dixon post game, he's almost giddy about the opportunity he's going to have now that both CJ and Jackson are out.

http://media.wgr550.com/a/98236681/1...game-audio.htm

It's certainty they will sign some RB into their 53 by Tuesday. 3rd down back is the key - Jackson is ideal for that role. Now they have to change up some. I feel they have to design something to take all that pressure of blitz and pressure instead of just ask the backs to pickup blocking.

I think the future is here. Sad to say but getting Bryce Brown on the field is good news.

[kingJofNYC]

Bryce Brown in pass pro...wait until you guys watch that disaster. If Spiller couldn't get on the field on 3rd down....

[wolfpack]

Who's available:

Alfonso Smith	ARI
Bernard Scott	BAL
Cierre Wood	BAL
Ronnie Wingo	BUF
Michael Ford	CHI
Michael Bush	CHI
BenJarvus Green-Ellis	CIN
Willis McGahee	CLE
Jourdan Brooks	CLE
Edwin Baker	CLE
Brennan Clay	DEN
Kevin Smith	FA
Michael Smith	FA
Kahlil Bell	GB
William Powell	HOU
Ray Graham	HOU
Deji Karim	HOU
William Powell	HOU
Tashard Choice	IND
Chris Rainey	IND
Terrance Cobb	JAX
Delone Carter	JAX
Beau Blankenship	JAX
Daniel Thomas	MIA
Kory Sheets	OAK
Da’Rel Scott	NYG
La’Rod Stephens-Howling	PIT
Felix Jones	PIT
Isaac Redman	PIT
Jordan Hall	PIT
Miguel Maysonet	PIT
Tauren Poole	PIT
Kerwynn Williams	SD
Zach Boren	SD
Demitrius Bronson	SEA
Brian Leonard	TB
Brendan Bigelow	TB
Waymon James

[Don't Panic]

Some halfway decent names on that list. Find the best pass protector of the bunch and sign him as the 3rd string back.

[bdutton]

Ray Rice might be allowed to return if he wins the appeal. Has the guy paid enough of a penalty to return yet? Listening to Boomer Esiason this morning made the case for him returning because of the massive fine and loss in salary combined with the counselling he and his now wife have gone through.

Thoughts?

[JohnnyGold]

I think this is a great thing for the Bills.

Let me qualify what I'm about to say with stating: I love Spiller, and hope he resigns here. And Jackson is one of the all time best Bills--on character alone! But with that being said...

Spiller often times get characterized as a "home run hitter". I am not necessarily disagreeing with that classification, BUT, I would argue that if you're going to call Spiller a home run hitter, Jackson should wear that label as well. Both of those guys are boom or bust--1 yard, 1 yard, 1 yard, 9 yards: 4 yard average. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule--but for the majority of this year AND last year, I would argue that Jackson has lost what made him special: the ability to get the 3 or 4 yards given to him AND THEN bust out 8 or 9 yards more. He lost the speed that allowed him to run wide earlier in his career, and relies more on shifty movement while running downhill, and lowering his shoulder to get an extra yard or 2. As for Spiller, grinding out 3-4 yards and taking what the defense gives him has NEVER been part of his repertoire.

Now, 3 years ago, when Jackson was in his prime, and Spiller was comfortable in the secondary role, the Bills offense was explosive... but that angle has been almost completely removed from our gameplan, which has hurt the Bills as a whole.

With Brown and Dixon in, I don't think you'll see as many of the "explosive" plays that we hope for from Spiller and Jackson every touch--but we WILL see the type of running game that Hackett and Marrone want: get your yards and make 2nd and 3rd down manageable. This will set up the play action, and make Goodwin even more dangerous. In turn, the offensive line may/should(?) look better by association. I watched Dixon take it up the middle how many times yesterday? And he still ended the day with a better than 4.0 average (I think.)

[Bunion]

Ray Rice might be allowed to return if he wins the appeal. Has the guy paid enough of a penalty to return yet? Listening to Boomer Esiason this morning made the case for him returning because of the massive fine and loss in salary combined with the counselling he and his now wife have gone through.

Thoughts?

Let's not start a media circus the week before a road division game, especially over a guy who 1. is a chicken**** who beats his wife, 2. hasn't played yet this season, 3. Does not know our offense at all.

[Fletch]

At the beginning of the season and well into it all we heard here by a good many was how elite our RBs were with Dixon and Brown included.

So now we're going to see exactly what the hype on Brown was and is. We've been told that he's Fred's replacement. Here's a grand opportunity for that to validate itself along with another Whaley trade.

Should be interesting.

I will reiterate this, that we presently do not have a proven 3-down RB on the active roster.

[casdhf]

Kinda quiet so far today, Fletch. What gives?

[JohnnyGold]

I will reiterate this, that we presently do not have a proven 3-down RB on the active roster.

Agreed. 100% agreed.

I love Fred Jackson as a Bill--he is revered, and rightly so. But he is another example of the Bills "out smarting" the league. He's old, has lost a step, can't stay on the field, and although the 2-3 yards he can routinely pick up are great, they do not mesh with what a modern day NFL offense should look like.

Watch the Patriots. Their ground game is nothing to write home about--in fact, if you asked Bills fans, 99% of them wouldn't DREAM of trading our stable of running backs for theirs. Yet when you watch the Pats play, whoever is in at RB does what they're supposed to do: pick up 4-5 yards and STAY ON THE FIELD so the offense can keep the drive going.

For instance: give me 3 yards on first from a back, no huddle, and then a hurry to the line and attempt a play action to either Watkins or Goodwin who can stretch the field, or even a screen to Woods... Ill take that any day of the week over 5 yards from Jackson, a substitution to get Spiller in, huddle up, line Spiller up in the shot gun, and give the defense time to recognize that in that situation, Spiller is either taking a delayed handoff up the gut, or is in for "pass protection", which allows the defense to bring heat because they know Spiller can't beat them in either situation!

I predict this offense, and particularly the offensive line, is going to look A LOT better this week against the Jets. These injuries honestly couldn't have happened at a better time for us.

We've been hearing how great Spiller and Jackson are for, what? 6 years? Look at our record over that time. Change is good in the NFL, and I'm glad to see it coming to our backfield. Next man up who I'm looking forward to replacing? Kyle Williams, in favor of paying big bucks for Jerry Hughes!

[Fletch]

Kinda quiet so far today, Fletch. What gives?

I'm not seeing too many threads with content worth responding to. Not much substance today. Not "Goats/Balls" threads, no post-game reviews, etc.

Was going to start one, but I'm just not in a fun-loving mood today whereby I feel like wading through 20 inane posts calling me a troll and other names. I'll be up for that at some point though, don't throw the towel in.

My take:

Not a good game despite the outcome. When we allow a team like the Vikes to run over us like McKinnon, a 3rd-round rookie RB whose had one good game against a very bad run D, to averaged 5.4 against what many here call the best rushing D in the league, which is about to become exposed as something else imo, then it's not good.

When we can't even put up more than 10 point through 59 minutes of play against the Vikes, it's not good. We're still averaging fewer points than were were with Manuel at the helm. I don't care of two of Orton's fingers are broken, that shouldn't be tough. I'm desperately looking for reasons as to why our passing production has gone from averaging 198 yards to 272 yards, with the same RBs and OL, and our total yards have gone from averaging 321 to 351, we are averaging fewer points.

Offensively once again it was two players, Spiller with his once-every-fourth-game big run, naturally short of a TD in his home-run ability, and Watkins posting what's becoming an every third game type of performance with none of the other WRs doing much (aka "his turn this week") and as great a game it was by him, but other than that our offense did **** against a team against which we should have had no difficulty whatsoever in racking up yards or points. Once again we got the yards, 373, but red zone production was **** and we couldn't put up more than 10 points on the first 293 yards.

I don't see how anyone can possibly be encouraged by that looking forward to our remaining games, four of which are almost guaranteed losses.

We're not playing well on either side right now. We should have put Minnesota away by the half. I thought that I was being pessimistic in my 23-13 prediction in allowing Minnesota over 10 points for the third time this season and other than against two terrible defenses in Atlanta and St. Louis, and I thought that I was being pessimistic in predicting only 23 points for us against an equally bad defense, but we nearly lost the dam game.

Meanwhile, the Jets finally seem to be coming together and they have 10 days rest as we prepare to go to NY to face them. You optimistic after yesterdays performance? Ryan vs. Marrone? LOL And let's forget the whole Spiller and Jackson are out thing. All that's been shoved down my and other critics' throats here is how deep our RB group is and how Brown is the heir to Jackson. I disagree, just sayin'.

Miami's looking much better too. I can very easily see us dropping 6 of the next 7 with a home win maybe against either the Jets or Cleveland, but Cleveland is clearly playing better than we are.

Those are my thoughts.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I predict this offense, and particularly the offensive line, is going to look A LOT better this week against the Jets. These injuries honestly couldn't have happened at a better time for us.

I don't know. I'm preparing for the worst. The Bills have been blown out at Jets for a number of years. Rex is playing for his job and is still a defensive genius. He has a couple of extra days to prepare. Fitz is a smart QB and he got confused the hell when he led the Bills into the Jets in the past. Not sure Orton can do much better, particularly when he's on this turnover binge lately ...

[Fletch]

Agreed. 100% agreed.

I love Fred Jackson as a Bill--he is revered, and rightly so. But he is another example of the Bills "out smarting" the league. He's old, has lost a step, can't stay on the field, and although the 2-3 yards he can routinely pick up are great, they do not mesh with what a modern day NFL offense should look like.

Watch the Patriots. Their ground game is nothing to write home about--in fact, if you asked Bills fans, 99% of them wouldn't DREAM of trading our stable of running backs for theirs. Yet when you watch the Pats play, whoever is in at RB does what they're supposed to do: pick up 4-5 yards and STAY ON THE FIELD so the offense can keep the drive going.

For instance: give me 3 yards on first from a back, no huddle, and then a hurry to the line and attempt a play action to either Watkins or Goodwin who can stretch the field, or even a screen to Woods... Ill take that any day of the week over 5 yards from Jackson, a substitution to get Spiller in, huddle up, line Spiller up in the shot gun, and give the defense time to recognize that in that situation, Spiller is either taking a delayed handoff up the gut, or is in for "pass protection", which allows the defense to bring heat because they know Spiller can't beat them in either situation!

I predict this offense, and particularly the offensive line, is going to look A LOT better this week against the Jets. These injuries honestly couldn't have happened at a better time for us.

We've been hearing how great Spiller and Jackson are for, what? 6 years? Look at our record over that time. Change is good in the NFL, and I'm glad to see it coming to our backfield. Next man up who I'm looking forward to replacing? Kyle Williams, in favor of paying big bucks for Jerry Hughes!

I agree with you except to the extent of your optimism for Brown and Dixon. I just don't see it there. I think we may very well be looking at something worse than Ridley/Vereen with Brown/Dixon. We'll see.

Again, I'm still stumped over our inabilty to put up more points, particularly with what many here have shoved down my and others' throats as one of the best sets of WRs in the league, while we put up significantly more passing yards and even more overall net yards. Shouldn't scoring increase? Yet it's decreased from when Manuel was at QB. That indicates a problem to me. I'm hardly saying to put EJ back in, hell, cut his ass, he's useless. But how can we possibly be scoring less, routinely now, while putting up significantly more yards?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know. I'm preparing for the worst. The Bills have been blown out at Jets for a number of years. Rex is playing for his job and is still a defensive genius. He has a couple of extra days to prepare. Fitz is a smart QB and he got confused the hell when he led the Bills into the Jets in the past. Not sure Orton can do much better, particularly when he's on this turnover binge lately ...

I agree

[JohnnyGold]

When we can't even put up more than 10 point through 59 minutes of play against the Vikes, it's not good. We're still averaging fewer points than were were with Manuel at the helm. I don't care of two of Orton's fingers are broken, that shouldn't be tough. I'm desperately looking for reasons as to why our passing production has gone from averaging 198 yards to 272 yards, with the same RBs and OL, and our total yards have gone from averaging 321 to 351, we are averaging fewer points.

One word: turnovers.

We were leading the NFL in differential heading into the New England game, 4 against the Vikings and equally as many against the Patriots (I think, may have been 3).

A few are on Orton, but mostly it's just been a series of unfortunate events. I'm glad we got the W this week though.

[trapezeus]

Take my view with whatever grain of salt you want. i've never coached a down of football in my life.

i think the approach the bills have taken with the OL and their RB has been odd. Freddie (good all purpose back) and CJ are better suited towards quicker more agile lineman who can pull and set up blocks quickly.

We've gone towards a heavier line that should excel in pushing a DL straight back. In that environment, i think you want the back who runs between the tackles, thrives on contact and gets stronger as the game goes on. that's not CJ. IT can be freddie, but he's older and even if he wasn't hurt, you don't want him taking that many carries.

I think Freddie is more versatile as he is good on contact, he's good as a finesse back. he's just getting older and now injured.

CJ has thrived when the line was faster. He was good with pulling guards who could get out and set an edge. When CJ got injured i said to my friends that i think the run game would look more consistent. i think dixon will make a choice and run with it, and drive the pile. i have no idea what bryce brown's forte is. but i hope he's a north south guy.

i think these two guys may be good enough, but they'll lack the explosive play. i'm fine with that if they can keep the 4-5 yards a carry. and that is largely without the -1-3 yard play on first down. if they can stay between 2-8 yards a carry, that only helps the team stay away from third and longs. Then it really comes down to the line and their ability to not take penalties.

I only worry about BB and his fumbling problem from the year on the Eagles.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Trap, you are kind of right in that Spiller is a space guy - give him some options to choose where he wants to go, but Marrone's zone blocking scheme is centered on a pre-designed hole to give running back one more assisted stage of blocking within the hole. Last week Hackeet said they were scaling down on zone so more of a stright line blocking - hence more Fred and Dixon even before Spiller was injured.

I actually expect that to continue with the inexpereince of our guards and RT play. Dixon fits what they want want running between the tackle the most. Brown may not move the pile as good but he does have the ability to go outside and cutting so I expect him to start over Dixon. What I'm worried about is 3rd down, neither of them is up to par (in terms of blocking and catching out of back field) and you know the Jets are going to bring pressure from unexpected place in obvious pass situation.

In a way, this maybe a case for us to see if this offensive staff is made of. I am not thrilled to their in-game adjustments to injuries to Fred and Spiller. Now they have a week and I HOPE they don't simply give the same play to Brown/Dixon and just say "next man up".

[justasportsfan]

we shall see if Spiller was the problem or if our coaches are the problem.

If our running game sucks just as bad then we know our coaches are the issue.

[trapezeus]

ghz, a question: if we are trying to zone block with larger, what seems to be less mobile OL, isn't that a deficiency in coaching? this routine idea of "we want to do what we want to do regardless of the personel is worrisome to me. Am i off base on this? or do you think this is something this OL is capable of doing?

I like straight forward blocking with these bigger guys and push the pile. there seems to be some level of success with that. again, i'm no OL expert, but when teams stunt on us, someone is always coming through untouched. to be that falls again on the coaching.

[better days]

I'm not seeing too many threads with content worth responding to. Not much substance today. Not "Goats/Balls" threads, no post-game reviews, etc.

Was going to start one, but I'm just not in a fun-loving mood today whereby I feel like wading through 20 inane posts calling me a troll and other names. I'll be up for that at some point though, don't throw the towel in.

My take:

Not a good game despite the outcome. When we allow a team like the Vikes to run over us like McKinnon, a 3rd-round rookie RB whose had one good game against a very bad run D, to averaged 5.4 against what many here call the best rushing D in the league, which is about to become exposed as something else imo, then it's not good.

When we can't even put up more than 10 point through 59 minutes of play against the Vikes, it's not good. We're still averaging fewer points than were were with Manuel at the helm. I don't care of two of Orton's fingers are broken, that shouldn't be tough. I'm desperately looking for reasons as to why our passing production has gone from averaging 198 yards to 272 yards, with the same RBs and OL, and our total yards have gone from averaging 321 to 351, we are averaging fewer points.

Offensively once again it was two players, Spiller with his once-every-fourth-game big run, naturally short of a TD in his home-run ability, and Watkins posting what's becoming an every third game type of performance with none of the other WRs doing much (aka "his turn this week") and as great a game it was by him, but other than that our offense did **** against a team against which we should have had no difficulty whatsoever in racking up yards or points. Once again we got the yards, 373, but red zone production was **** and we couldn't put up more than 10 points on the first 293 yards.

I don't see how anyone can possibly be encouraged by that looking forward to our remaining games, four of which are almost guaranteed losses.

We're not playing well on either side right now. We should have put Minnesota away by the half. I thought that I was being pessimistic in my 23-13 prediction in allowing Minnesota over 10 points for the third time this season and other than against two terrible defenses in Atlanta and St. Louis, and I thought that I was being pessimistic in predicting only 23 points for us against an equally bad defense, but we nearly lost the dam game.

Meanwhile, the Jets finally seem to be coming together and they have 10 days rest as we prepare to go to NY to face them. You optimistic after yesterdays performance? Ryan vs. Marrone? LOL And let's forget the whole Spiller and Jackson are out thing. All that's been shoved down my and other critics' throats here is how deep our RB group is and how Brown is the heir to Jackson. I disagree, just sayin'.

Miami's looking much better too. I can very easily see us dropping 6 of the next 7 with a home win maybe against either the Jets or Cleveland, but Cleveland is clearly playing better than we are.

Those are my thoughts.

I agree with much of what you said, but Cleveland playing better than we are?

After losing to the Jags yesterday?

If Marrone is so STUPID he refuses to play Mike Williams against the Jets, I could see the Bills losing that game.