Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

[WagonCircler]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Losman is a different story and a different situation. You are comparing apples to oranges.

EJ is going to be given another opportunity to compete for the starting QB position for this team despite how you may feel about it. Maybe in the offseason; maybe two years down the road.

And not laying on the jinx, but how many times can Orton get plowed before he has to sit out a play, or God forbid a couple of weeks? The line has been porous at best. The sack volume has expediently increased inevitably increasing the chances of injury.

My point is that I don't believe EJ has given up on himself and I'm not willing to do that either. Thus far he will make a decnt backup. But I do not think we have seen the best of EJ...his time will come again to prove himself.

It doesn't matter whether EJ has given up on himself.

It doesn't matter whether EJ absorbs every bit of leadership that Orton has.

You can't learn accuracy.

To quote Bill Murray from Meatballs:

"It just doesn't matter."

EJ will never be anything more than a stopgap backup in this league.

[yordad]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

You can't learn accuracy.

At a glance, I would agree with this. However, you can gain confidence. You can gain experience. You can gain a better o-line. You can gain better mechanics. All of which can contribute to being more accurate.

[better days]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Only a complete moron of a GM would spend a 1st round pick on a QB that is that raw coming out of college in today's NFL. A GM can't spend a 1st rounder on a guy 2-3 years from becoming a starter like it's 1970.

With todays rules & CBA, it is more practical now than ever to sit a first rnd QB for a while.

QB's now do not make the amount of money they did under the old CBA & a first rnd pick belongs to a team for 5 years.

I don't think it is any problem to sit a QB for 2- 3 years in todays NFL.

[better days]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

It doesn't matter whether EJ has given up on himself.

It doesn't matter whether EJ absorbs every bit of leadership that Orton has.

You can't learn accuracy.

To quote Bill Murray from Meatballs:

"It just doesn't matter."

EJ will never be anything more than a stopgap backup in this league.

Link an article from an expert or two that says A QB can not become more accurate.

[Dr. Who]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Dude, if we can get a 5th for EJ I'd laugh all the way to the bank with that pick. EJs a helluva guy and a horrible nfl QB.

How's your boy Bortles, been doing lately?
Since he's struggling, I suppose that means he can't improve.

[Dr. Who]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Don't need to hear about it. Things are looking up in Bills Land for once and you have to go and bring this loser's name up.

Says the man who would sign Ray Rice and Aaron Hernandez, were it possible.
In the game of life, you're the loser.

[Dr. Who]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Only a complete moron of a GM would spend a 1st round pick on a QB that is that raw coming out of college in today's NFL. A GM can't spend a 1st rounder on a guy 2-3 years from becoming a starter like it's 1970.

I liked 1970 . . .

[BillsOverDolphins]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Says the man who would sign Ray Rice and Aaron Hernandez, were it possible.

Yeah, I want talented football players who can help my team win--if the hypothetical scenario presented itself, they would be exponential upgrades at their respective positions.

In the game of life I'm infinitely more successful than you, but I'm sure your good-guy routine will impress the menopausal militia here--which is your ultimate goal.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

The worst thing to happen to EJ was Kolb getting hurt. He should have sat at least 1 and possibly 2-3 years before becoming the starter considering how raw he was coming out of college.

That would be ok if he was a 3rd round or later pick.

[WagonCircler]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Link an article from an expert or two that says A QB can not become more accurate.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state

In order to make any kind of assessment of EJ Manuel's pro prospects, there has to be a clear understanding of where he is as a quarterback at the end of his college career. In all the attributes that one would look for in a potential NFL quarterback (footwork, mechanics, accuracy, ability to read a defense, pocket movement/escapability, running ability, etc. etc.)

EJ has demonstrated high levels of proficiency at times. He has also displayed levels of inconsistency at even the fundamental aspects of quarterback play that raise serious questions about his ultimate ceiling as a QB. The frustrating part of these inconsistencies is that they are so very inconsistent and appear seemingly at random. For a coach trying to address these issues it must feel like a game of whack-a-mole; as soon as you resolve one deficiency, another that you thought you had fixed reappears. This suggests a quarterback who has not sufficiently mastered the fundamental aspects of the position to the point that they happen automatically.

If EJ is thinking about footwork, then mechanics go to hell. If he starts to think about mechanics and footwork, then he forgets to make a necessary pass protection check, etc. etc. While I do not know EJ on a personal level, I would feel very comfortable stating as fact that he is a very intelligent person and a very hard worker. Further, he has been coached by an excellent QB coach for five years. Given that there are no suspected issues with work ethic or lack of quality coaching, EJ's inconsistency presents a problem that I don't think can be waved away with the notion that Jimbo Fisher's coaching style didn't mesh with EJ. The question an NFL team has to answer for themselves when deciding where to draft EJ is whether he is simply a late bloomer who develops at a slower rate than others (certainly possible), or whether he has limited aptitude for the position.

For more, just Google Tim Tebow.

EJ is toast.

The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll stop sounding so clueless.

[Dr. Who]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

Yeah, I want talented football players who can help my team win--if the hypothetical scenario presented itself, they would be exponential upgrades at their respective positions.

In the game of life I'm infinitely more successful than you, but I'm sure your good-guy routine will impress the menopausal militia here--which is your ultimate goal.

Success is a nebulous term. I am certain our criteria differs immensely.

I don't care who I impress or don't impress. I state what I believe and think, just as you do.

[cookie G]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

It doesn't matter whether EJ has given up on himself.

It doesn't matter whether EJ absorbs every bit of leadership that Orton has.

You can't learn accuracy.

To quote Bill Murray from Meatballs:

"It just doesn't matter."

EJ will never be anything more than a stopgap backup in this league.

It depends what's causing the inaccuracy.

There was something he said in OTA's that was telling to me...

He said something like "we work so hard to set up plays, and guys work so hard to get open. At the last moment, I get this idea in my head not to screw up."

He's got the disease suffered by Rube in Major League 2, when he couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.

"Rube, what do you think about when you throw the ball back to the pitcher?"
"I worry about screwing up and throwing the ball into centerfield"
"What do you think about when you throw the ball to 2nd base to throw out a runner"?
"Oh, there's no time to think, I just throw it"
"Beginning to understand?"

It seems to make sense to me, as some of his throws...were just so off...and should be easy throws.


But the second part of what you say, I totally agree with.

In the end, it doesn't matter. You can't have a starting QB that only connects on 3 of 10 throws to his WR's.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

I love when people speak with complete confidence about something they truly have absolutely no idea about. The Bills aren't done with him Pink. I'd almost guarantee he starts another game for us at some point. Not saying he'll be markedly improved, just that he will start again. And it won't necessarily be because of injury.

Name some betting terms.

He'll never start another game, barring injury, as a Buffalo Bill.

[WagonCircler]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

It depends what's causing the inaccuracy.

There was something he said in OTA's that was telling to me...

He said something like "we work so hard to set up plays, and guys work so hard to get open. At the last moment, I get this idea in my head not to screw up."

He's got the disease suffered by Rube in Major League 2, when he couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.

"Rube, what do you think about when you throw the ball back to the pitcher?"
"I worry about screwing up and throwing the ball into centerfield"
"What do you think about when you throw the ball to 2nd base to throw out a runner"?
"Oh, there's no time to think, I just throw it"
"Beginning to understand?"

It seems to make sense to me, as some of his throws...were just so off...and should be easy throws.


But the second part of what you say, I totally agree with.

In the end, it doesn't matter. You can't have a starting QB that only connects on 3 of 10 throws to his WR's.

There was a highly promising pitcher for the Cardinals named Rick Ankiel. He got a bad case of "the yips" and started throwing the ball over the backstop on a regular basis. He never recovered and eventually became an outfielder.

Maybe a position change would be in order for EJ. But a location change would be better.

The problem with QBs and accuracy is exponentially harder than with Pitchers. Pitchers don't have 250-330 lb. men trying to decapitate them.

QB footwork can be improved, but only under perfect situations can it really help, i.e. when the QB is not being chased or off balance. EJ doesn't have a problem in drills.

But when the bullets are flying, there are just WAY too many things to think about. The mechanical part of the game--the footwork, the balance, the arm angle, the release, the last-instant snap of the wrist for torque, the yanking down of the non-throwing arm to get the shoulders and torso to rotate (these are just some of the elements of a proper delivery)--needs to be second nature by this level.

And that's before you add the reading and analysis of defensive schemes and matchups to the equation.

That's why the mechanics need to be embedded. They need to be something EJ doesn't have to even think about. And that's the problem. Those mechanics, by and large, are mastered in high school, then tweaked like a golf swing throughout a career.

And even with those automatic mechanics, there's still a huge God-given element to accuracy. Some have it, some don't. EJ has made it abundantly clear that he's in the "don't" column.

He just has too far to go. And to add even more to the huge challenge he faces, the type of full speed experience needed to improve can only come in live, regular season game play. The Bills concluded 4 games ago that they can't afford to serve as a facilitator of on the job training for EJ Manuel, especially when he was showing zero progress.

Listen, I get it. People want EJ to succeed for a couple of reasons. First, because they had such high hopes for him. Second, because he's a great kid. And third, because they invested all this equity arguing for him and defending him, and they don't want to admit how dead wrong they were.

But the reality of the situation is underscored by the team's play under Orton. This is a guy picked off the scrap heap. Plucked from his Lazy Boy. A guy with moderate talent, who now has the team fighting for a playoff spot.

This wouldn't have happened with EJ getting his on the job training. And it won't ever happen with EJ starting for this team.

[RedEyE]

Re: Sub topic of a very good article - Still some hope for future EJ

It doesn't matter whether EJ has given up on himself.

It doesn't matter whether EJ absorbs every bit of leadership that Orton has.

You can't learn accuracy.

To quote Bill Murray from Meatballs:

"It just doesn't matter."

EJ will never be anything more than a stopgap backup in this league.

This isn't about your opinion or mine. Its about the Bills assesing the value of a young player. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, the kid will get another opportunity.