Trading Up for Watkins Was Folly -- Jerry Sullivan

[Fletch]

Wow really??? Ok lets put Sammy on the Steelers. I wonder how he would do playing opposite of Antonio Brown, with one hell of a RB, and a 2x Superbowl winning QB tossing to him.

Care to comment on how Evans and Benjamin are outperforming Watkins with the QBs that they have?

Or Beckum with Manning who's done about what Orton has with the entire NFL media hammering Manning this season?

Or Hurns and Robinson with Bortles in Jax?

Nice of you to go after the low hanging fruit, feel free to comment on the others.

The bottom line is that Watkins isn't as good as everyone thought, that's all there is to it. He was supposed to be prolific with the ball in his hands, not dependent upon the QB. Have you seen that to the extent that he's special? I haven't and neither have most football viewers.

The fact that a 4th round pick is doing better than Watkins on a per-game basis is all we really need to know, it shouldn't even matter who the QB is unless it's Brady, Rodgers, or Peyton. Bryant is also the 3rd WR on that team, Watkins is the 1st on ours.

Also, try explaining how in his starts Hogan is only marginally behind Watkins on a per-game basis too, obviously with the exact same QB.

[Fletch]

Polian left the Colts in terrible shape, his son was **** too. Polian gets too much credit, go ask Greg Gabriel who was the one behind some of those Bills teams, he won't answer Polian, pretty sure he'll respond to you on twitter. Polian gets way too much credit.

Your point who Pegula brings in is well taken, but I think you'll have more trouble selling the above about Polian. He took **** here in Buffalo and turned it into what it was in the early 90s here and his residual management kept this team competitive for another five or six seasons after he left.

He had a good track record with Carolina too and brought in talent to put them into the AFCCG in their second season. You can argue that all you want, but he brought talent to the Bills, Colts, and to a lesser extent Carolina. He's a couple levels above what we've had here either way.

[kingJofNYC]

Your point who Pegula brings in is well taken, but I think you'll have more trouble selling the above about Polian. He took **** here in Buffalo and turned it into what it was in the early 90s here and his residual management kept this team competitive for another five or six seasons after he left.

He had a good track record with Carolina too and brought in talent to put them into the AFCCG in their second season. You can argue that all you want, but he brought talent to the Bills, Colts, and to a lesser extent Carolina. He's a couple levels above what we've had here either way.

All I'm saying is go ask Mr. Gabriel about the 90s Bills. The scouts did a lot of the work, the guys under Polian, some of which were there before he arrived were the ones who put up those big boards and told Polian who to go get. Don't get me wrong, Polian did a good job, he put people in place and trusted their information. All I'm saying is he's sometimes given too much credit.

The point main point is, why are they waiting so long to bring in an outside consultant?

[djjimkelly]

look i wouldnt have given 2 1st round picks for anyone but a sure fire franchise qb.

but its not sammy's fault he was drafted here.

i'm 100% behind sammy i wish he would act like just another player till there is a real reason to act a certain way. but i like him

[Fletch]

The point main point is, why are they waiting so long to bring in an outside consultant?

Gotcha. Yeah, I agree with that although I'm not really up on the news about what Pegula's doing behind the scenes to figure things out.

I guess what kinda stuns me is that everyone says he's a fan, well if he's a fan, then why does he need a consultant or panel to figure things out? Shouldn't most of it be obvious other than who is going to replace them after, hopefully, he fires the lot? Maybe that's what it's all about, the consulting that is, I have no idea.

[Fletch]

look i wouldnt have given 2 1st round picks for anyone but a sure fire franchise qb.

but its not sammy's fault he was drafted here.

i'm 100% behind sammy i wish he would act like just another player till there is a real reason to act a certain way. but i like him

Yeah, fully agree although that QB had better be a sure thing.

But people here need to learn to separate the criticism of how Sammy was obtained, thereby costing us future resources to improve the team, from Watkins' play otherwise.

I don't recall anyone suggesting that Sammy's not good, but even most of his most ardent supporters and those that see (for whatever reasons) that he's something more than simply a good WR at this point, seem to agree that he wasn't worth what we gave up. That's all anyone has said.

This isn't about Sammy, or shouldn't be, it's about the Bills and how to improve them. We'll never improve with moves like that. I'm tellin' ya, this is going to hit hard come draft day.

[WagonCircler]

Don't get me wrong, Polian did a good job, he put people in place and trusted their information.

So you're whining like a ***** and pissing all over Polian over the suggestion that the Bills bring him in to put people in the right places?

Just STFU.

You Polian haters a f u c king hilarious.

The guy built an AMAZING team here that went to four Super Bowls.

He went to Carolina and had a team in the conference championship game the, two years earlier DIDN'T EVEN EXIST.

He went to Indy, and built a Super Bowl winner.

Give your BS a rest. You sound like a total idiot.

[CoolBreeze]

Care to comment on how Evans and Benjamin are outperforming Watkins with the QBs that they have?

Or Beckum with Manning who's done about what Orton has with the entire NFL media hammering Manning this season?

Or Hurns and Robinson with Bortles in Jax?

Nice of you to go after the low hanging fruit, feel free to comment on the others.

The bottom line is that Watkins isn't as good as everyone thought, that's all there is to it. He was supposed to be prolific with the ball in his hands, not dependent upon the QB. Have you seen that to the extent that he's special? I haven't and neither have most football viewers.

The fact that a 4th round pick is doing better than Watkins on a per-game basis is all we really need to know, it shouldn't even matter who the QB is unless it's Brady, Rodgers, or Peyton. Bryant is also the 3rd WR on that team, Watkins is the 1st on ours.

Also, try explaining how in his starts Hogan is only marginally behind Watkins on a per-game basis too, obviously with the exact same QB.

You're comparing apples to oranges. You're assuming that Watkins couldn't go to any of these teams and post the numbers that Beckum, Evans and Benjamin are with their QBs. But that's not the question. The question should be could Beckum, Evans, or Benjamin come to Buffalo in our offense and post the same numbers that they have now? That answer would most likely be no. You evaluate players based on their stats way too much...

For instance Evans lost the Bucs their game against the Rams. He was injuried but he could have made it off the field but made the mistake of staying down. You never mention that. Beckum had a huge drop against the 49ers this past sunday which was the final nail in their coffin. Sammy on last minute drives has been clutch. That's never mentioned.

Benjamin is very solid however I still think Watkins is superior -IMO of course, I can't argue. Benjamin has done very well

Hurns and Robinson are different. Cecil Shorts is consistantly hurt. The Jags WRs are composed of very young players including the two rookies. Who else does Bortles throw to? their run game was garbage until week 9. So of course the rookies have numbers.

Hogan? We watch the same games, is he on Watkins level? Or is he just a very reliable possesion WR. Who's had two good games in a row because our QB and O-line have been terrible and we've been forced to dink and dunk to our slot reciever? Also is Hogan really that good? Or has Watkins and Woods been getting the bulk of the opposing teams defensive attention thus leaving Hogan to do his thing? Idk we'll see Hogan will be getting attention now.

Either way we're both wrong in a sense. It's way too early to say which WR is better

[swiper]

You're comparing apples to oranges. You're assuming that Watkins couldn't go to any of these teams and post the numbers that Beckum, Evans and Benjamin are with their QBs. But that's not the question. The question should be could Beckum, Evans, or Benjamin come to Buffalo in our offense and post the same numbers that they have now? That answer would most likely be no..

Sorry pal. You're lost. The answer would be yes. This has been the best WR draft in a long time. NFLN couldn't shut up about it this week.

[CoolBreeze]

Sorry pal. You're lost. The answer would be yes. This has been the best WR draft in a long time. NFLN couldn't shut up about it this week.

I don't think so pal, maybe I am indeed lost. Or maybe you think Orton and Manuel could magically get those guys the ball more than they have for Watkins. Under Hackett that seems more delusional than not.

[notacon]

"Trading up for Watkins was folly"?!?!? Well...duh!

Of course it was. The Bills have ****ed up their drafts for almost their whole history. Little respite from total incompetence during the late 80's and early 90's. They even tried their hardest to **** those up, not even using their first pick to choose Jim Kelly.

In fact, the Buffalo Bills have never used their first pick to choose a QB, until 2013 when they reached for EJ.

The Watkins pick was such a bad move, Pagula should clean house of every last jerk that "manages" the Bills. They all suck...right down to every last coach. Clean house and build this team from the bottom up starting with a proven, big time GM who has a history of being a great football mind, and knows how to manage a NFL team.

I don't know who that is, but it is imperative that Pagula find him.

[WagonCircler]

You're comparing apples to oranges. You're assuming that Watkins couldn't go to any of these teams and post the numbers that Beckum, Evans and Benjamin are with their QBs. But that's not the question. The question should be could Beckum, Evans, or Benjamin come to Buffalo in our offense and post the same numbers that they have now?

No, THAT is NOT the question. The question is, whether the Bills would be better off with one of those WRs PLUS next year's first and fourth round picks.

That's the ONLY question.

Paying the price we did for Watkins was like putting $4,000 rims on a car with an engine that spews oil and has 200,000 miles on it.

The rims don't do a damn bit of good if the car doesn't drive.

[Mace]

The rims don't do a damn bit of good if the car doesn't drive.

Oh yeah. You just perfectly ripped off one of my favorite analogies, Mr. Man. Well done !

[Fletch]

Hogan? We watch the same games, is he on Watkins level? Or is he just a very reliable possesion WR. Who's had two good games in a row because our QB and O-line have been terrible and we've been forced to dink and dunk to our slot reciever? Also is Hogan really that good? Or has Watkins and Woods been getting the bulk of the opposing teams defensive attention thus leaving Hogan to do his thing? Idk we'll see Hogan will be getting attention now.

Yards are yards, catches are catches, and TDs are TDs. Hogan is having a very good year in the games he's played. I think you're way overrating Watkins, I'm not really seeing this "level" thing regarding him. He's good, but he's hardly a phenom or amazing. He definitely isn't special.

Either way we're both wrong in a sense. It's way too early to say which WR is better

I disagree. I don't see the hype on Watkins prior to the draft either.

Either way, going on odds alone it's a longshot that he's that much better than all of the other 1st (and even 2nd) round WRs to have justified the extra picks.

We have a team to build, not merely some excitement to create at a single position and we can't afford to give up picks unnecessarily like that for risks at getting additional performance that we're not getting.

[Fletch]

Sorry pal. You're lost. The answer would be yes. This has been the best WR draft in a long time. NFLN couldn't shut up about it this week.

Lots of sources have brought it up. A lot of it has to do with the rules changes too making the transition from college to the NFL that much easier for WRs though. Rookie class records like that aren't just shattered arbitrarily.

[Fletch]

I don't think so pal, maybe I am indeed lost. Or maybe you think Orton and Manuel could magically get those guys the ball more than they have for Watkins. Under Hackett that seems more delusional than not.

I think you are a little lost on this issue. It's not like the other rooks are getting great seasons from their QBs and some of those QBs are actually worse than Orton.

[TacklingDummy]

Giving up next years first and fourth for Watkins is almost as bad as drafting Maybin.

[Fletch]

Giving up next years first and fourth for Watkins is almost as bad as drafting Maybin.

Well, for Maybin we got nothing. Here we got something, but nothing that couldn't have been gotten with our original pick, maybe something even better.

The real question is what will we be missing out on with what would have been our 1st this year.

Problem is that if every two years we use two 1st-rounders to get a Watkins type then we'll never build up quickly enough.

It's just time for new FO people.

[kingJofNYC]

So you're whining like a ***** and pissing all over Polian over the suggestion that the Bills bring him in to put people in the right places?

Just STFU.

You Polian haters a f u c king hilarious.

The guy built an AMAZING team here that went to four Super Bowls.

He went to Carolina and had a team in the conference championship game the, two years earlier DIDN'T EVEN EXIST.

He went to Indy, and built a Super Bowl winner.

Give your BS a rest. You sound like a total idiot.

Straight with the insults. Love it. Why hasn't Polian found a job since leaving the Colts? Nothing but horror stories the last few years in Indy, dude mailed it in for half a decade. I'm not ****ting on Polian, he's done good things, but why are we always trying to relive the past? How did the Marv Levy experiment work out? Lets face it, you're the one who's clueless, you don't really follow the sport that closely, so you pick a name you know and run with it. How about we get some fresh ideas instead of reaching into the bag of yesteryear?

Hey, I got a good idea guys, how about we hire Cowher, has that been mentioned before? Is Bill Walsh available?

Polian built the Bills all by himself, forget everyone else who helped him. He will come here and build us a winner in no time, the all mighty WagonCircler has spoken.

[kingJofNYC]

You want nothing to do with Harbaugh, because SF can't wait to get rid of him, but you want to bring back Polian to consult even though no other team wants anything to do with him. How's that for logic? Reject the guy who's had recent and immediate success in the NFL, who also turned around a failure of a college football program and did so by beating top flight programs with inferior talent, but welcome back with open arms a guy who no one wants anything to do with besides ESPN. Polian and his son did nothing to replenish the Colts system the last half decade he was there, left the team in shambles. Nostalgia's a hell of a drug.