Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

[Cali512]

What bugs me the most about fans views of Marrone is that they talk bad about him without knowing whats actually going on. Everyone says we dont take chances deep.

Thats the most innacurate statement ever. Watch the games and the routes our recievers run. They arent making their final break until a good 20 yards downfield.

There was a play where Orton got sacked where he had a good 3-4 seconds but when they showed the wide receivers, none had even finished their route.

The biggest issue is lack of short game to set the long ball. Anyone ever notice that all deep passes that are successfull are usually set up by a few timing routes? When Brady goes deep its usually after a few screens to get the D closer.

So in all reality Marrones offense is set up with a bunch of Saints style routes that take 3-5 seconds to make work, and stretch the D. Yet the thing is, our OL can block for a max of 3.5 seconds
See the real issue?

[justasportsfan]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

I think his downfall was that he didn't make Metz his OC and Pepp his DC

[Cali512]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

See now we're on the same page

[Homegrown]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

Heck ... back when I played HS, unless we were in Max protect, there was always one or two "dump-off" options when we ran deep routes ... then again, that was HS

[elltrain22]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

Marrone has many positives as a HC, but unfortunately has many more negatives than positives. To his credit, he's good at preparing our team to play, and I think his schemes going into most games are well crafted. To his discredit, he's awful at making in-game adjustments, which is probably the most important skill there is to have for a coach. Another downfall for Marrone is he supposed to be an O-line guru and yet, that is our single weakest area on this team. Matter of fact, I think if our O-line was at least decent, we'd be 6-4 maybe 7-3 right now. The fact that he can't fix something that he supposed to be really smart at, is very disconcerting.

[OpIv37]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

The short passes bother me. For years now, through multiple coaching staffs, it seems like we get picked apart by short passes and quick slants on D while failing to use them on O. It's very frustrating.

[jamze132]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

The short passes bother me. For years now, through multiple coaching staffs, it seems like we get picked apart by short passes and quick slants on D while failing to use them on O. It's very frustrating.

Exactly.

[better days]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

The real issue is Marrone refused to play Urbik for a long time & resuses to play Mike Williams even though the Bills red zone offense is the worst in the NFL.

That is the REAL issue.

[Cali512]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

Our line is still horrible with Urbik. The example i mentioned was something from the KC and Miami game i noticed so Urbik is playing and the outcomes the same.

Mike Williams isnt fast and when you watch the chicago game, you see why he was benched. A few run plays he wouldnt block and let Freddy/CJ get destroyed . Or on plays that werent designed to him he wouldnt even attempt to fake a route to be a decoy. You cant have that on plays, players who arent supposed to get the ball still need to run their route hard in case the first option isnt open.

[DynaPaul]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

And the fact that we continue to run a speed back, Spiller, directly into the middle of the line.

[better days]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

Our line is still horrible with Urbik. The example i mentioned was something from the KC and Miami game i noticed so Urbik is playing and the outcomes the same.

Mike Williams isnt fast and when you watch the chicago game, you see why he was benched. A few run plays he wouldnt block and let Freddy/CJ get destroyed . Or on plays that werent designed to him he wouldnt even attempt to fake a route to be a decoy. You cant have that on plays, players who arent supposed to get the ball still need to run their route hard in case the first option isnt open.

Unless you were at the Game in Chicago or have the all 22, you can't really see who does what for the most part.

Mike WIlliams is the second best WR on this team & his numbers over his career say that he is.

The OL IMPROVED when Urbik was put back on the field....not that it is good.

But I blame a lot of the OL woes on Coaching & Orton.

EJ did not take the amount of sacks that Orton does & the run game was much better with EJ at QB as well.

[YardRat]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

One of the biggest criticisms of EJ has been he can't complete anything over 5-10 yards, and he had plenty of completions (and also criticism for dumping the ball off too much) so I don't know if anybody really has much room to complain about lack of short routes/outlets being available...they are there for the taking, and it just seems a little unforgiving to ***** when the team isn't getting the ball downfield, then ***** when they aren't throwing short.

I don't think Marrone does too poorly with game management, some of the things he takes criticism for, if they worked instead of failed, and he'd be getting praise for...most of the time a coaches rep comes from execution. I will admit, however, that the work with the offensive line is disappointing (although I do blame most of that on Morris, but still if Marrone is a guru he should be able to hire a good coach) and I'm puzzled about the true source for guys getting in the doghouse and not being used. If that truly is on him, it's a big black mark for me.

[Cali512]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

We did for EJ. Our gameplan was actually decent for EJ. Also the run game was better because of the read option. We need misdirection on the offensive line and the read option provided that.

[Cali512]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

Better days. It depends on scheme. Tampa was built on jump ball big WRs who dont run routes. Thats why Evans has been a perfect replacement. Our scheme lets the route runners shine. Miamis scheme is based on speed and physical WRs, thats why Hogan is good here but didnt fit in miami. Gibson, Landry, and Wallace are strong, physical, WRs with speed. Hogan, Woods, and Watkins use crafty routes and their run after catch ability.

[Mace]

Re: Marrones biggest downfall, lack of short ball

The real issue is Marrone refused to play Urbik for a long time & resuses to play Mike Williams even though the Bills red zone offense is the worst in the NFL.

That is the REAL issue.

Good chunk of it. Williams made his bones in the red zone, Urbik has clearly stabilized the line situation out of position.

I'd add in, failure to have a QB coach 1st year, having a bad one 2nd year, not having a vet backup QB 1st year, expecting Manuel as a project QB to perform in Hacketts fast read west coast concepts up temp offense, hiring Pat Morris to coach the O-line, letting the O-line get dorked up with his o-line background, being hired as an innovator and not innovating anything but instead Jauron-ing into overly conservative, his inexplicable doghouse, and his less than inspiring queasy scared sideline demeanor.

On the plus side, he benched Manuel and hired excellent DC's he leaves alone.