cmon Fletch... tell us all who u r.
cmon Fletch... tell us all who u r.
Maybe part of that is because posters like you perpetually lay out things that I never said and positions that I've never held. Naturally you see no problems with those posts by you and others.Originally Posted by trapezeus
I respond to certain posts made by others. Unfortunately this forum, unlike other softwares, does not have the ability to state which poster it is that you are referring to. Either way, I almost always include the post that I'm responding to. There are two active threads right now that I've made posts in over the last several days or week for the most part. None of the others.
So explain why you post attacking me after these posts, that you claim you don't read, and feel the need to put them in? Aren't you simply capable of ignoring them? Put me on ignore for petes sakes. You won't have to read any of em. I'd be ecstatic if you did. Why don't you? You claim you don't want to read my posts but then feel compelled to chase me around commenting on most of them but not on the posts, on me.
Do you view this as being mentally stable? I view it as being somewhat unhinged. Unless I respond to one of your posts, don't respond otherwise. When I did today you don't address the facts and still take issue with me. This isn't normal or healthy mental behavior.
I'm well on record as having stated the following and you wont' find anything to the contrary posted here.
1. I wouldn't have traded up to get Watkins.
2. Given that trade up I'd have taken Evans.
3. With our original pick and assuming that both would have been gone at 9th, if we had to have a WR at 9th (highly questionable in my mind to begin with) I'd have gone for Benjamin next.
4. Another poster a week or two ago said he'd have taken Beckum, to which I pointed out that he'd have been fine too if it had meant keeping our picks but that the difference between him and Evans and Benjamin was size. Evans/Benjamin are both in that Calvin Johnson/AJ Green size mold whereas Beckum is more in the DeSean Jackson size mold from a physical perspective.
Either way, defending the notion that Watkins was A, the best use of two 1st-rounders, and B, even close to being the best of this WR draft class, is futile at this point.
At this point I would take Evans, Benjamin, Beckum, or Matthews in exchange for Watkins and our 1st and 4th's back this season.
The truth of the matter is that it was a deep draft class, as I've pointed out from day one, and that numerous WRs have outshone Watkins. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
Another truth is that as I posted above, Watkins has easily been the least consistent WR of the highest profile WR draft prospects.
Here are the current rookie WR stats:
Games Receiving Rk Year Age Draft Tm Lg G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Y/G Ctch% 1 Mike Evans 2014 21 1-7 TAM NFL 10 10 82 49 841 17.16 8 84.1 59.8 2 Kelvin Benjamin 2014 23 1-28 CAR NFL 11 10 98 52 768 14.77 8 69.8 53.1 3 Sammy Watkins 2014 21 1-4 BUF NFL 10 10 84 45 649 14.42 5 64.9 53.6 4 Jordan Matthews 2014 22 2-42 PHI NFL 11 7 77 50 635 12.70 6 57.7 64.9 5 Odell Beckham 2014 22 1-12 NYG NFL 7 6 59 41 609 14.85 5 87.0 69.5 6 Brandin Cooks 2014 21 1-20 NOR NFL 10 7 69 53 550 10.38 3 55.0 76.8 7 Allen Robinson 2014 21 2-61 JAX NFL 10 8 81 48 548 11.42 2 54.8 59.3 8 Taylor Gabriel 2014 23 CLE NFL 11 1 57 30 540 18.00 1 49.1 52.6 9 John Brown 2014 24 3-91 ARI NFL 11 3 70 37 529 14.30 5 48.1 52.9
Here are some facts about that data:
Of 9 rookie WRs with at least 500 receiving yards and a minimum of 30 catches,
Watkins ranks tied for 1st in starts.
Watkins ranks 4th in yards-per-game.
Watkins ranks 6th in catch %.
Watkins ranks 5th in yards-per-reception.
Watkins ranks tied for 4th for TDs with two other receivers that have 3 and 6 starts to Watkins' 10, one of which missed 4 games entirely.
That doesn't even come close to qualifying him as even in the running for best WR rookie. The only thing he comes close to leading is starts. The rest of his numbers don't match those.
Presumably you mean Eli, but apparently you are unfamiliar with the heat that Eli's taken so far this season. Were you even aware that his and Orton's stats on average were almost identical? It doesn't seem so.
Manning has averaged 1.9 TDs/game and just under 260 passing yards. Orton has averaged just over 260 ypg and 1.7 TDs/game. Orton's completion % is higher as is his rating.
Your point was?
And let's discuss the QBs of the others while we're at it.
Evans had had Glennon and McCown, neither of which has outperformed Orton statistically.
Benjamin has Newton who's been injured the whole season and has struggled worse than Manning and is also taking a rash.
Foles' numbers are worse than Orton's too and Foles and Sanchez (LOL) combined are worse than Manning's.
Do we even need to mention Robinson with Bortles down in Jax, who trails Watkins only marginally with what could very well be the worst QB play of any team in the league.
This too is something that I've often repeated, several times in response to direct posts by you, yet you still post as if I never showed you this info, and yet you blame me for reposting it.
I think that if you're going to use QBs as an excuse, then you should at least go run some comps on their play vice the play of our QBs this season in doing so. Don't you think that would be a better way to approach an argument?
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3
Post #46
------(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Lone Stranger (11-24-2014)
You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.
I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.
1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...
- - - Updated - - -
You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.
I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.
1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year, and Stevie.
I like option 3.
Lone Stranger (11-24-2014),WagonCircler (11-24-2014)
So let me see if I understand this, you actually want me to come and put up averages and how Watkins' relates, and lags, other rookie WRs after he has a big game?
I've regularly posted those tables every 3 or 4 weeks. I think this is the third time this season that I've done so.
That's funny. At times people have accused me of being you too.
I have one moniker. I'll happily take credit for being another dozen or two dozen posters just to liven things up and keep charades going.
Did you want to discuss football, or just me? I'm not interested in shagging questions or insults regarding myself.
I thought that forums like these were supposed to be about football, how come you guys clutter it up with junk about me and other posters?
trapezeus slams me for things that he also takes issue with other posters on. So do numerous other posters. Can't just be me although I can see why I am high up the list. Gotta be tough acknowledging that someone people hate so much is right so often. Not that I care about being right, I simply enjoy discussing, but you guys all care about being right and have tremendous difficulty in dealing with it when you're not, particularly when I am. Such is life though.
I don't know how I submitted this to look like it does...but oh well.
Also, are we sure that Sammy was going to be the 1st WR taken? Would Tampa still have drafted Evans if Sammy was available? Would Sammy fall to us at 9? Would it have been possible for us to have Sammy and our 1st next year? Obviously no one knows for sure, but stranger things have happened.
Liar liar pants on fire.
Novacane (11-24-2014)
As I've said before, it was foolish to get rid of Stevie. He was the glue in the chemistry department between Manuel and the receiving units. Sure he had his issues, but he also offered much. First Bills' WR to ever post three consecutive B2B 1,000-yard receiving seasons. That's not just something you throw away.
A number of people have posted that they'd rather have had Stevie, Woods, Hogan, and any one of the following, Benjamin, Evans, or Beckum, along with our 1st and 4th picks this year.
Anyone arguing contrarily must think that if we could trade Watkins right now for our 1st and 4th this year and Benjamin or Beckum that it would be a bad deal for us. Otherwise, they too would have to agree that that trade, in hindsight, was a foolish one.
It's going to hurt us, not have helped us, come the draft in April.
Lone Stranger (11-24-2014)
i disagree on the stevie front. he was not all there last year and dropped more than his fair share of passes last year and appeared he did not want to be here. that's my opinion though
I came.
I saw.
I conquered.
again repeating the same things over and over again.
1.you are not a genius or a guy standing on an island on not liking trading up for a WR.
2 it's done, they did take the best WR in the long run. your ability to pop up first thing in the morning when a different rookie does one thing is amazing! I already showed you how benjamin actually puts up his numbers in garbage time and that in the same games, he has performed much worse than sammy. but no response.
3. i forgot eli manning and kyle orton will go down as similar quarterbacks over the last 10 years. forgive me by not going by this year's stats and looking at their careers as a whole.
4. and most importantly, you are a troll trying to make it seem like you are rooting for the team, but all you want is to be proven right. and you haven't been no matter how often you point out outliers in the weeks they exist and disappear in the weeks you have nothing to go on.
you werent on this board the last couple years, so it's a real irritate to those of us who have been here for a while to see your constant doctorate postings as though you alone are the most knowledgeable football fan in the world.
chernobylwraiths (11-24-2014),Novacane (11-24-2014)
That's very interesting.
The very first posts this morning in this thread were attacks by yourself and Novacane on me and really having absolutely nothing to do with my posts.
Secondly, were any of those posts responded to as a result of yours or Novacane's? The answer is no. So why the need to follow me around and make these comments, continually and perpetually? But you're not being repetitive. I get it.
Yeah, I wonder what would have happened, or not happened I guess, had you two not started in. What do you think? I'm thinking that a good portion of the BS part of this thread wouldn't even exist. But yeah, it's my fault. Right.
What was that you were saying about repeating the same things over and over again?
Oh yeah, you were complaining about repeating the same things over and over again. Presumably your incessant complaints about me, the person, not the posts that I make, don't qualify. I'll ignore the implications of that.
Otherwise, try this on for size, try not repeating incessantly lies about what I actually have said thereby all but forcing me to respond to them and set you straight on them. I realize that it's one of your personal goals here to do whatever you can to make me look bad, hammer on me, even if that includes completely and mercilessly lying about what I've said in the past. Either way, your comments on repeating the same things over and over again should be internalized.
Otherwise, your post lays out exactly the criticisms that I've made about you in this and the other thread.
But no, you're not repeating yourself for what now, the 100th time, in your above statements?
I'm pretty sure that everyone here gets it, you think I'm a troll, hate the team, want to see them lose, etc. I'm thinking if you say that a couple hundred more times you might have more success in getting the point across, what do you think? Again, not that you're a mirror image of your own complaints or anything.
On the rest, I'm quite sorry that you have intellectual difficulties such as distinguishing between a single season in each of two QBs' careers and their entire careers. Most people don't seem to have those troubles.
Last edited by Fletch; 11-24-2014 at 09:33 AM.
I put this up separately.
Once again, you have to read them why?
You have to respond to them why?
Again, is your ignore function broken or not properly functioning?
You have total control over the very things that you gripe about. Yet, you don't do anything at all about it.
I'll save the analysis on that for someone else.
Well, if you're right every day for 100 consecutive years, you might just break even for how wrong you were about the Bills moving.
Massive, epic, gargantuan, Herculean, all-universe fail.
Gentlemen, Gentlemen. Please stick to the point. There were and are a lot of good positions and analysis presented which independent observers appreciate. There is no need for mudslinging.
I do my absolute best.
Unfortunately they seem to think that there is a need for mudslinging. Just go see who initiates. I've tried to tell this to the admin, but they don't seem to see it that way.
Get involved in discussing the topics at hand, I've had numerous good exchanges except with about a half-dozen posters that can't seem to let people engage like that without that mudslinging.
I enjoy the fact that you actually stick to football even if I disagree on the Watkins point.
In the short term it may hamper this team but in the long term he has a chance to be every bit as good as Dez Bryant.
Of course, they should have just drafted Bryant instead of Spiller but that's a whole separate point entirely.
For some reason though there's games where Orton or EJ simply just didn't look his way and it's baffling. It's also baffling that they don't have designed bubble screens to try and get Watkins in space to make a play. Watching the Browns game yesterday I saw the Browns have two designed bubble screens to Gordon to put the ball in their best playmakers hands, he gained about 30 yards on the two plays and it made me wonder why the hell that's not in the playbook here.
Fletch (11-24-2014)
Yeah, or Wilson instead of TJ Graham too.
I'm also befuddled as to why they don't get Williams involved more. You know I didn't think as much of him coming in as most here did, but dangitall, the guy's got some worth out there, especially in the red zone where we are struggling the most. He's the biggest receiver we have.
It's clear that those running this team don't know what they're doing during the offseasons. They run the team like a bunch of fans that have been drinking at a sports bar.
I can't remember the last time that they actually reached for a player that actually panned out. It's always drafting at the least well stocked positions in the draft and preventing themselves from drafting in those same positions when the drafts are actually rich with that talent. This year they go get Watkins in a WR rich draft, which is fine, but if you do something like that you'd better make damn sure that he ends up leading that draft class or you end up looking like a fool.
This bears daily repeating in forums everywhere in order to increase the chances of it sinking in to Pegula, but Pegula really needs to take the opportunity to clean house.
Now that we're over the hump of the Toronto thing the next worry is not having "business as usual" for the next 20+ years. Wouldn't you agree?
I started a thread a couple weeks ago, basically how even though I love Sammy the price was just too high to not have this discussion.
im no longer on the fence. I'd much rather have our picks.
Fletch is right, and I feel dirty having said that.
this OL is so historically bad that we will never see the top of Watkins Mountain before Eugene Parker drags him out of Buffalo.
Diehard BillGator... best of both worlds
Lone Stranger (11-24-2014)
I would've liked getting OL help and Matthews, Moncrief, and Fedorwizc in a dream scenario, ah well
LOL
Ahh, everyone does.
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