Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

[BuffaloRedleg]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

The only case I can make for Orton:

He was not with the team in the off/preseason weeks and months establishing cohesion, working on timing or learning the scheme. EJ was the guy and the offense was tooled and the scheme planned around him. Once Orton came into the picture that scheme had to change and adjust more for his pocket passing abilities - and the fact the guy cannot run at all. The pass block and the receiving scheme had to be revamped. We also know that Orton has been pulling WRs into the film room with him and that this is something that hadn't been done with EJ.

My point is I would like to see what Orton can do with the offense given more time to work with the passing scheme, work with the young receivers, and (assuming holes are addresseed in the offseason) behind a more effective OLine.

The only case I can make for EJ:

When EJ was drafted he was described as a raw talent that would obviously need time to adapt to the NFL, and hone his skills behind a veteran QB. Well that never materialized. At least not until Orton showed up on the stoop of One Bills drive. He was forced in on several occasions with complicating injury.

The investment has already been made - the guy is already here - this team is becoming quite close - and I for one would still like to see what EJ has done to better himself now that he has had time with a legitimate NFL veteran QB at the helm. Despite his obvious regression early this season, EJ has shown at times that he can be a legitimate NFL competitor.

I just don't think guys like RGIII and Cutler are worth the gamble. I think we already have those similar type players here. Why dissolve the team working relationships and natural cohesiveness that has developed and start over with similar type players?

I don't know man. Orton is really bad. I don't know where people get the idea he is average. He misses a lot of incredibly easy reads and passes, even when not under duress. That isn't the OC/scheme or OL, that is just a bad QB. They have had plenty of time to adjust the offense, and I don't even think the scheme would be that different. It's not like EJ played with that much mobility or was playing that differently.

EJ was a long shot from day one and he is still a long shot. An injured RGIII has a better shot of making a comeback than EJ has of becoming a starter. At least RGIII has done it before.

Nobody is saying that the new guy has to start. Trade a 2nd and bring him in. If he doesn't play then he doesn't play and we'll know for sure at that point, but at this point we are an OG and a QB away from contention. To "stay the course" would be ridiculous.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

i think the OC change and a OL coach can make the line more run oriented. i think with their size, they can get good at that with minimal upgrades. you bring one more back into this, and all of a sudden, you aren't asking orton and EJ to do much. you are asking them to not make mistakes by having a strong running game.

both qb's struggle with throwing to a space. they like their WR open. if you are running well, the chances that WR are just open, gets better. they'll be one on one and watkins should simply get more balls thrown his way.

ortona nd EJ are not great and will never be. but the meandering play calls with no offensive identity hurts this team more than I think we know or acknowledge. Every offensive postion is under performing. to me, that seems to be unlikely that all 11-15 guys who have started or will start sucked together. something structural in the organization of the offense is lacking. the players may not need to be wildly adjusted.

Both QBs like their WRs open? Who doesn't? Orton and EJ seem to miss open guys all the time anyways. They are both really bad. I don't know where this average stuff comes from. Nothing in the last 5 games shows any indication that Orton is even average, let alone a starter in this league.

Wouldn't it maybe help Cutler/RGIII/Bradford whomever if they weren't asked to do as much as their current teams? I think that would help Cutler a lot. He at least has the skill to win a game for us when necessary. Orton will never be a differencemaker in a game.

[Bill Cody]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

Don't compare them to anyone else out there. Don't tell me "because they are better than the other options".

Well we do live in the real world. It's all about available options.

[better days]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

What makes you think he is "still coachable". He hasn't changed since starting for FL State.

Well EJ did WIN a bowl game every year he played for Fl State.

[trapezeus]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

Both QBs like their WRs open? Who doesn't? Orton and EJ seem to miss open guys all the time anyways. They are both really bad. I don't know where this average stuff comes from. Nothing in the last 5 games shows any indication that Orton is even average, let alone a starter in this league.

Wouldn't it maybe help Cutler/RGIII/Bradford whomever if they weren't asked to do as much as their current teams? I think that would help Cutler a lot. He at least has the skill to win a game for us when necessary. Orton will never be a differencemaker in a game.

other teams have routes where its a pure timing patter and the QB relies on the WR to make the same read, run the right route and get there. the bills largely don't even try those plays. which A, puts stress on line protection because the qb is waiting for guys to get open. and b, makes us more one dimensional.

it's not quite as bad as the jauron years when he didn't even have audibles for theQBs. but it shows the total lack of prep by the OC for different conditions. it also impacts the teams ability to make adjustments when they don't run those kind of plays.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

other teams have routes where its a pure timing patter and the QB relies on the WR to make the same read, run the right route and get there. the bills largely don't even try those plays. which A, puts stress on line protection because the qb is waiting for guys to get open. and b, makes us more one dimensional.

it's not quite as bad as the jauron years when he didn't even have audibles for theQBs. but it shows the total lack of prep by the OC for different conditions. it also impacts the teams ability to make adjustments when they don't run those kind of plays.

I don't know man it sounds like you're stretching real hard to make a difficult point.

Defending your QB shouldn't be this hard.

[alohabillsfan]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

Orton, it's mid to late December and the bills are still in the playoff hunt! He may not put up enough points but he flips the field and moves the chains enough to rest the defense! Orton ypg passing 251, EJ 168.

[swiper]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

Hopefully some other viable option will pop up that we are not seeing at the moment.

Outside of guards/TE the Bills are a team ready for the play-offs if you plug in the right QB. So now, more than ever, it should appear to be an attractive landing spot to any QB out there.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know man it sounds like you're stretching real hard to make a difficult point.

Defending your QB shouldn't be this hard.

Pretend your a NY Giant fan for a minute.

[Thurmal]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

The thing that is troubling about Orton is that he has gotten worse as the season has gone on, so I don't think that learning the offense in the real issue.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

If you try to make a case for EJ you're basically just broadcasting to the world you don't know anything about football

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Someone please make a case for Orton/EJ

Orton still has us in the playoff hunt?