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Thread: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Here's the analysis Sharp did concerning bad weather and the Patriots

    The Patriots and Tom Brady Suspiciously Outperform Expectations in Wet Weather

    Posted on January 21, 2015
    According to the NFL, the New England Patriots were found to have introduced 11 under inflated footballs of the 12 they were required to provide during Sunday’s AFC Championship game vs the Colts. The footballs were said to be underinflated by two pounds per square inch. The incentive to having the Patriots offense play with underinflated footballs is that they are easier to grip, throw and catch as compared to properly inflated footballs.

    Naturally, the immediate question arises: “How long have the Patriots been playing with underinflated footballs?” That’s impossible to know, but if the Patriots and Tom Brady believed it was to their advantage to underinflate the footballs for easier grip, presumably they would be doing it in wet weather, much like the weather in New England for the game vs the Colts.

    I went through all NFL game books for the Patriots home games since the 2005 season. What I found was, at a minimum, intriguing. The game books list the “game weather”. First, the data I share below assumes this weather report is at least somewhat accurate. I did go back and cross reference every game vs historical daily weather reports for the area. That said, its possible one or two additional games should be added in case the game book reported clear conditions when it was, in fact, wet.

    Second, I presumed that Tom Brady, the quarterback, was the primary individual who would benefit most from underinflated footballs, so I excluded the 2008 season when he did not play due to injury suffered in week 1. I won’t speculate as to whether the direction to underinflate the football was given by Brady or not, but I simply removed games he did not start.

    The first table below shows the Patriots performance in wet weather in a game by game basis. After the Patriots suffered losses in their only two home wet weather games in 2006, a strange phenomenon occurred:

    The Patriots went 14-1 (93%) in Tom Brady’s home games played in wet weather since 2007. Their only loss was to the San Francisco 49ers in 2012. For some comparison, the Patriots went 51-9 (85%) in home games played in dry weather during that same period. On average, in both wet and dry weather, the Patriots were favored by approximately 9 ppg. In the NFL, 9 point favorites should win the game approximately 81% of the time.

    (click to enlarge)

    As you can see from the averages at the bottom, Tom Brady put up remarkably similar numbers in wet weather as he did in dry weather: 7.4 yds/att vs 7.6 yds/att, a 99 passer rtg vs 101 passer rtg, and a slightly better TD:INT ratio in wet weather as compared to dry weather.

    The second table (below) looks more in depth at the results of those 15 wet weather home games since 2007 as compared to the Patriots performance in dry weather home games. The compared results are strikingly different:

    The Patriots went 31-29 ATS (52%) in dry weather home games, but 10-5 ATS (67%) in wet weather home games. The oddsmakers on the games projected the Patriots would score an average of 28 ppg, whether the conditions were wet or dry. But the Patriots scored 35 ppg in wet weather (+7) vs 31 ppg in dry weather. They also held opponents to 5 ppg fewer in wet weather home games.

    Thus, their average win improved from 30.7-19.6 to 34.6-14.3. In other words, they went from winning games by 11 points to winning by over 20 points on average, despite being favored by 9 ppg in both scenarios.

    (click to enlarge)

    This analysis does not prove or disprove anything. It certainly may fuel the fire of conspiracy theorists, but without any concrete evidence that the Patriots were underinflating footballs for Tom Brady in wet weather, we can only look at the game results. While obviously suspicious, despite how strongly it appears “something” is helping the Patriots in wet weather, nothing can be proven by this study.

    I always watched the Patriots and saw how they performed in wet weather. Anecdotally it seemed like they “got it”: they knew the pass rush was slower and while other teams shifted AWAY from the pass and to more ground based games in the wet weather, it seemed the Patriots shifted the opposite direction, and passed the ball more frequently. I always thought this was just “Bill Belichick and Tom Brady being smart and ahead of the game”. Perhaps that is still the case. Or perhaps they passed more because their offense played with underinflated footballs in wet weather while their opponent played with regulation footballs. Its total speculation. I am of the opinion that we will never know. This whole allegation could be a lot of hot air. I am not opining on what happened, whether other teams do it too, the level of advantage which is gained, etc. I am simply providing actual data on game results and letting you use the data in conjunction with news/media reports to form your own conclusions.

  2. #42
    Peterman Sucks! Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Strongman View Post
    Fair enough. Please go to http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932 and explain, exactly, where his methodology and analysis is faulty.
    So the fact they got lucky and recovered their own fumbles makes it damning evidence?

    They're not the only cold weather team to fumble more on the road than at home with low fumble total for the year. Hell even the Browns only fumbled 17 times total with 8 at home. And no one will ever accuse them of cheating.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    So the fact they got lucky and recovered their own fumbles makes it damning evidence?

    They're not the only cold weather team to fumble more on the road than at home with low fumble total for the year. Hell even the Browns only fumbled 17 times total with 8 at home. And no one will ever accuse them of cheating.
    You need to look at it using statistics. He's looking at how many standard deviations (SD) the Patriots** fumbles are away from the mean. When something is that many SDs away from the mean, it is highly unlikely to happen by chance alone.

    If you had a die and it rolled it twenty times and the "6" came up 17 out of 20 times, wouldn't you think something might be funky with that die?

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    I love how this is bringing out the number crunchers and putting anything they can get their hands on under a microscope.
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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    I love how this is bringing out the number crunchers and putting anything they can get their hands on under a microscope.
    I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more traction. You would think when something only has a 1 in 16,233.77 chance of happening, more people would think something was amiss.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Strongman View Post
    You need to look at it using statistics. He's looking at how many standard deviations (SD) the Patriots** fumbles are away from the mean. When something is that many SDs away from the mean, it is highly unlikely to happen by chance alone.

    If you had a die and it rolled it twenty times and the "6" came up 17 out of 20 times, wouldn't you think something might be funky with that die?
    If the Pats would have lost >half of their home fumbles, nothing would have even come out of this. The fact they somehow recovered every single one of them makes it stand out.

    I won't dispute it helps in the passing game, but it also has to make you wonder if guys like Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers use underinflated footballs too as the three of them can also put up big numbers in bad weather games.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    If the Pats would have lost >half of their home fumbles, nothing would have even come out of this. The fact they somehow recovered every single one of them makes it stand out.

    I won't dispute it helps in the passing game, but it also has to make you wonder if guys like Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers use underinflated footballs too as the three of them can also put up big numbers in bad weather games.
    You need to read it all. Towards the end, he has an update that looks at all fumbles. It still points to the Patriots** not having as many:

    The Patriots averaged 73 plays/fumble, almost 60% MORE than outdoor teams, and almost 50% MORE than the league average the past 5 years.

    Now, he did leave out teams that play indoors which is seems valid because those teams have the advantage of not playing half of their games in adverse weather.

    Assuming Sharp's premise is correct, if other QBs did something, then their teams would also benefit by having less fumbles. The data doesn't support that so that doesn't seem to be the case.

    I think it's more likely that the 6th round afterthought is a fraud.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Since 2010, New England Has the Lowest Fumble Rate in the NFL

    New England has had an uncanny ability to hold on to the football for quite some time. According to data compiled by Warren Sharp of Sharp Football Analysis, the Patriots fumble far less than any other team that plays outdoors, where the elements can make the football harder to handle. Beginning in the 2010 season, Patriots players have fumbled (whether lost or recovered) once every 73 touches from scrimmage, which is 52% better than the league average. The next best team is the Ravens, who have fumbled once every 55 touches.

    Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).

    The Patriots didn’t return a request for comment.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/patriots...all-1422054846

    hopefully the wsj picking this theme up will ensure it has legs Democratg after the superbowl, keeps the public talking about this much longer after that, and forces the nfl to no be able to sweep it under the rug (again) and harshly punish the cheating cheat cheaters who cheat and cheat and cheat
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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Cool. It's in the traditional media now.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    One thing I like about these stats is that it gives us a pretty good idea how long the cheating has been going on.

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    Note: Discotrish information is Conspiralicious and has NO BASIS IN FACT. Considering her opinions may be HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH. Please do not get your medical advice from a subforum of a subforum of a sports message board.


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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Let's not rush to judgment, we need to wait until the superbowl is over and everyone forgets about it ... err, i mean all the facts are in.

    - the commish

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    seriously, is there any way possible the nfl CANT come down hard on the cheatriots now?

    i mean for gods sake this has got to be the most awkward situation possible for them now
    - marcias ridiculous performance where he lied about as well as my mom at church, and was extremely arrogant and flippant as you could possibly be. that image is burned in ppls minds now
    - belicheat, who is famous for micromanaging everything under the sun that is remotely related to his team, suddenly has no idea how game balls are managed. yeah no we totally believe you
    - stats out the gazoo that shows the cheats miraculous domination of fumble statistics that are like 40+% better than the next best team (!!) since '10, demonstrating a very long period of consistent cheating
    - on top of the infamous spygate whitewash that got them a slap on the wrist that was insulting to anyone with moral values
    - with the gross mishandling of the ray rice situation still fresh in the publics mind and the general feeling that the nfl has become a bunch of low character individuals on and off the field

    what they really should do is suspend both of them for the sb. wont ever happen but it would be the right thing to do. since they wont do that, seems they will have to come down very hard on the cheats next season. belicheat should be suspended the whole season. brady at least four games if not eight if not the season. will it happen? will anything happen other than token pick and money penalties? or will we simply watch as the nfl becomes a bigger joke than the nhl, and essentially an extension of the wwe?
    Last edited by Meathead; 01-23-2015 at 10:31 PM.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    seriously, is there any way possible the nfl CANT come down hard on the cheatriots now?

    i mean for gods sake this has got to be the most awkward situation possible for them now
    - marcias ridiculous performance where he lied about as well as my mom at church, and was extremely arrogant and flippant as you could possibly be. that image is burned in ppls minds now
    - belicheat, who is famous for micromanaging everything under the sun that is remotely related to his team, suddenly has no idea how game balls are managed. yeah no we totally believe you
    - stats out the gazoo that shows the cheats miraculous domination of fumble statistics that are like 40+% better than the next best team (!!) since '10, demonstrating a very long period of consistent cheating
    - on top of the infamous spygate whitewash that got them a slap on the wrist that was insulting to anyone with moral values
    - with the gross mishandling of the ray rice situation still fresh in the publics mind and the general feeling that the nfl has become a bunch of low character individuals on and off the field

    what they really should do is suspend both of them for the sb. wont ever happen but it would be the right thing to do. since they wont do that, seems they will have to come down very hard on the cheats next season. belicheat should be suspended the whole season. brady at least four games if not eight if not the season. will it happen? will anything happen other than token pick and money penalties? or will we simply watch as the nfl becomes a bigger joke than the nhl, and essentially an extension of the wwe?
    Yeah Belly the micromanager who in the very same presser in which he denied knowledge of deflated balls went on at length on how he does all sorts of things with practice balls to make them as unmanageable as possible. Don't ask him. You have to ask Teflon Tom instead. They are both boldfaced liars. Good thing for them that Kraft has Goodell's pecker in his pocket.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    The NFL is pure trash. Where's Goodell in all of this... you know... the Commissioner of the whole enchilada announcing they will get to the bottom of this scandal and if a systemic practice of cheating is uncovered, the most severe penalties will be handed out.

    thats not happening though. The NFL has been mute. They're waiting and watching and praying this blows over into the whisps of the offseason.

    meat nailed it. It's the WWE.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Not for nothing but these aberrant stats have been around since before SpyGate came to light. The fumble statistics are just more numbers pointing to their dishonesty as a franchise. I think everyone is just fed up with the NFL not doing anything about their "success" and nailing them on any charge possible. Seriously, Belichick should have been banished from the game after SpyGate unfolded.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    The Dolphins Blow, the Jets Swallow, and the Patriots take it in the arse.

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by harmonkoz View Post
    awesome

    make this as uncomfortable as possible for goodell, as long as possible. now i hope the wwe meme catches on too. just embarrass the hell out of goodell and the nfl and force them to deal with this super harshly - as it should have been done the first ****ing time they got caught

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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    If the Pats would have lost >half of their home fumbles, nothing would have even come out of this. The fact they somehow recovered every single one of them makes it stand out.

    I won't dispute it helps in the passing game, but it also has to make you wonder if guys like Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers use underinflated footballs too as the three of them can also put up big numbers in bad weather games.
    Manning obviously didn't use a deflated ball. His throws this year have been awful.

    Roethlisburger & Rodgers don't need an underinflated ball because they both have big enough hands to get a good grip on the ball, unlike Brady.

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    Childish Fake Voter ICRockets's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    I do think it's possible that the deflated balls were new for the Patriots this year. That's because I have long held that the Patriots have been using HGH regularly for the last decade. I believe it helped Junior Seau revitalize his career, I believe it helped Tom Brady return from a season-ending injury to become twice the quarterback he was prior, I believe it helped Tedy Bruschi recover from his stroke...I think it's no coincidence that Deflate-Gate is happening shortly after the NFL finally introduced testing for HGH into their banned substances program.

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    Spartacus is a troll harmonkoz's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing fumble stats on the Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by ICRockets View Post
    I do think it's possible that the deflated balls were new for the Patriots this year. That's because I have long held that the Patriots have been using HGH regularly for the last decade. I believe it helped Junior Seau revitalize his career, I believe it helped Tom Brady return from a season-ending injury to become twice the quarterback he was prior, I believe it helped Tedy Bruschi recover from his stroke...I think it's no coincidence that Deflate-Gate is happening shortly after the NFL finally introduced testing for HGH into their banned substances program.
    How does HGH help you hold on to the ball?

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