If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
All: The new Billszone site with the updated software is scheduled to be turned on Tuesday, May 21, 2024. The company that built it, Dynascale, estimates a FOUR HOUR shut down, from 8pm Pacific, (5pm Eastern) while they get it up and running. Nobody will be able to post in any forum until they are done. Afterwards, you may need to do a web search for the site, as old links will not work, because the site is getting a new IP address. Please be patient. If there are bugs, we will tackle them one at a time. Remember the goal is to be up and running with no glitches by camp. Doing this now assures us of that, because it gives us all summer to get our ducks in a row. Thank you!
Merged all things Brady, cheating, bellicheat, etc.
1) It is a small sample size and could be a statistical anomaly but it's not just a representative sample it's all the players available to be analysed. It's what we have to go on. And let's be clear, what it says is they fumbled less before they came then after they left. Their time with the team is immaterial. The point being that it excludes "Belichick's magic anti-fumble teaching" as an explanation for the remarkable difference in fumble frequency vs the rest of the league which was a very common initial response to these findings. Unless you believe they forgot what they learned once they left.
2) If this is true, shouldn't we expect a team like the Saints to have comparable stats? They play half their games in a dome. By this logic their stats should be better.
3) That's certainly the narrative. For a guy who nearly never speaks in public we seem to know an awful lot about how he feels and the way he operates. Personally, I think the legend has overstepped the man by a wide measure.
4) The ball surface would have a much greater effect on the ability to catch the ball than the ability to hold it. Securing the ball has more to do with how tightly you can hold it between your hand, inside of your elbow and your body. Lower air pressure ftw
1. If players didn't require constant reminders of what they have to do, teams wouldn't need coaches past grade 11.
2. There is no compelling reason to expect the Saints to have similar numbers.
3. Your opinion.
4. The hand is still the connection, and I don't see how the air pressure would affect your elbow and body. Take a ball at 12.5 and squee2e it with one hand as hard as you can and measure how far your fingers move the surface toward the center of the ball.
Then, let 1 psi out of the ball and repeat. What's the difference?
1. If players didn't require constant reminders of what they have to do, teams wouldn't need coaches past grade 11.
2. There is no compelling reason to expect the Saints to have similar numbers.
3. Your opinion.
4. The hand is still the connection, and I don't see how the air pressure would affect your elbow and body. Take a ball at 12.5 and squee2e it with one hand as hard as you can and measure how far your fingers move the surface toward the center of the ball.
Then, let 1 psi out of the ball and repeat. What's the difference?
1. There is no compelling reason to believe you have any idea what NFL coaches do.
2.
Winning team - check
Pass heavy - check
High Completion Rates - check (actually higher than Pats)
Tons of Points - check
3. In response to yours.
4. The hand, forearm, inner elbow and body are the connection when done right. Regardless the difference would certainly be measurable.
Eli Manning could feel it no measurement required.
They haven't come CLOSE to proving that Tom Brady broke a rule, so how is a penalty justified? When was the last time you saw a ref penali2e a team for an infraction that no one saw and then eject them from the game when they wouldn't admit it?
1. Is it that difficult that only people who have done the job have any idea of what it entails? What credentials are necessary for you to concede that someone who disagrees with you might know what they're talking about?
2. Those weren't the only factors listed, and the fact that the Saints ran a reprehensible program aimed at intentionally injuring other players while BB wouldn't be caught dead doing the same thing equals a significant difference in coaching technique and approach to the game.
3. The forearm, elbow and body more than gripping the ball prevent others from grabbing at the ball, and if you can figure out a way to measure the difference 1 psi means to the forearm. elbow and body, I'd like to hear it.
4. Confirmation bias. Of COURSE he felt he could feel the difference once he knew what to look for. Let's see ELI do a blind test with ten balls, some at 13 and some at 12 and we'll see how sensitive he is, considering it never occurred to him before.
Maybe the saints scandal? I don't know who admitted what.
Jonathan Vilma was given a years suspension and sued the league and had his "punishment" completely rescinded. Goodell was over turned twice, once by an arbitrator and once by Paul Tagliabue. Why do you think he's insisting that he handle the appeal? Because he knows he's the only guy that will convict.
Vilma's behind Brady taking it to court in a big way...
Vilma was a central figure in the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal. The NFL alleged that defensive coordinator Gregg Williams operated an incentive program, which paid out "bounties" for deliberately putting opposing players out of games. The league alleged that Vilma offered $10,000 cash to anyone who knocked Brett Favre out of the 2009 NFC Championship Game. Most notably, Favre was forced out of the game for one play with an ankle injury. Although up to 27 players were accused of involvement, Vilma was the only player initially singled out by the league for his role.[6][7] The NFL suspended Vilma for the entire 2012 season on May 2, 2012. The suspension was reported to be the longest suspension related to in-game misconduct in modern NFL history, dwarfing the previous record of five games handed to Albert Haynesworth for stomping on Andre Gurode's head in 2006. The league contended that Vilma and defensive end Will Smith aided Williams in starting the alleged program in 2009.[8] Vilma found out about the suspension when it was announced on SportsCenter, immediately announced his intent to appeal and adamantly denied that he was involved in any sort of bounty scheme.[9] Vilma filed a personal slander suit against Roger Goodell.[10]
Opinions about the suspensions were divided, as alleged targets like Favre and Kurt Warner claimed that incentive programs were part of the game, which was corroborated by [11] former players interviewed by Sports Illustrated. On July 26, Vilma and seven witnesses from the Saints (along with a sworn affidavit from Drew Brees) testified to a federal judge in New Orleans that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell misrepresented the facts in the league's investigation. Vilma's suspension was overturned on September 7, and he was reinstated for the 2012 season.[12] The Associated Press reported Roger Goodell's disappointment in the determination of the arbitration board's ruling.
On October 9, 2012, the league again suspended Vilma, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, Saints defensive end Will Smith and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove. Vilma's suspension lasted throughout the entire 2012 season, but he was allowed to retain his paychecks (when he was on the Physically Unable to Perform list) for the first six weeks of the season.[13] The suspensions were then reviewed by former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who overruled Roger Goodell and vacated the suspensions on December 11
Does not sound like Brady is going off easy if you believe what Goodell said in the video. Even if Brady turns over cell phone records, the question of not cooperating Wells investigation is still there. It's hard for me to see a reduction more than 1 game if any.
1. Is it that difficult that only people who have done the job have any idea of what it entails? What credentials are necessary for you to concede that someone who disagrees with you might know what they're talking about?
2. Those weren't the only factors listed, and the fact that the Saints ran a reprehensible program aimed at intentionally injuring other players while BB wouldn't be caught dead doing the same thing equals a significant difference in coaching technique and approach to the game.
3. The forearm, elbow and body more than gripping the ball prevent others from grabbing at the ball, and if you can figure out a way to measure the difference 1 psi means to the forearm. elbow and body, I'd like to hear it.
4. Confirmation bias. Of COURSE he felt he could feel the difference once he knew what to look for. Let's see ELI do a blind test with ten balls, some at 13 and some at 12 and we'll see how sensitive he is, considering it never occurred to him before.
1. Not at all. Someone who disagrees with me certainly might. I would expect they'd be able to demonstrate that.
...
2. One of the traits of winning teams is they place players in positions where they can succeed. The type of offense the Pats run is pass heavy with high completion rates and tons of points, which means they can be more conservative handling the ball.
....
Exactly which factor did I miss?
And there you are in Bellichick's head again. He hasn't had any problem breaking or at the very least stretching the rules in the past. What exactly makes you think he'd draw the line here?
3 & 4. Have you ever used a hand/foot pump or the like to fill a bike tire? Ever use your thumb to check to see if it was full? Like that.
Jonathan Vilma was given a years suspension and sued the league and had his "punishment" completely rescinded. Goodell was over turned twice, once by an arbitrator and once by Paul Tagliabue. Why do you think he's insisting that he handle the appeal? Because he knows he's the only guy that will convict.
Vilma's behind Brady taking it to court in a big way...
Vilma was a central figure in the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal. The NFL alleged that defensive coordinator Gregg Williams operated an incentive program, which paid out "bounties" for deliberately putting opposing players out of games. The league alleged that Vilma offered $10,000 cash to anyone who knocked Brett Favre out of the 2009 NFC Championship Game. Most notably, Favre was forced out of the game for one play with an ankle injury. Although up to 27 players were accused of involvement, Vilma was the only player initially singled out by the league for his role.[6][7] The NFL suspended Vilma for the entire 2012 season on May 2, 2012. The suspension was reported to be the longest suspension related to in-game misconduct in modern NFL history, dwarfing the previous record of five games handed to Albert Haynesworth for stomping on Andre Gurode's head in 2006. The league contended that Vilma and defensive end Will Smith aided Williams in starting the alleged program in 2009.[8] Vilma found out about the suspension when it was announced on SportsCenter, immediately announced his intent to appeal and adamantly denied that he was involved in any sort of bounty scheme.[9] Vilma filed a personal slander suit against Roger Goodell.[10]
Opinions about the suspensions were divided, as alleged targets like Favre and Kurt Warner claimed that incentive programs were part of the game, which was corroborated by [11] former players interviewed by Sports Illustrated. On July 26, Vilma and seven witnesses from the Saints (along with a sworn affidavit from Drew Brees) testified to a federal judge in New Orleans that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell misrepresented the facts in the league's investigation. Vilma's suspension was overturned on September 7, and he was reinstated for the 2012 season.[12] The Associated Press reported Roger Goodell's disappointment in the determination of the arbitration board's ruling.
On October 9, 2012, the league again suspended Vilma, Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, Saints defensive end Will Smith and free-agent defensive end Anthony Hargrove. Vilma's suspension lasted throughout the entire 2012 season, but he was allowed to retain his paychecks (when he was on the Physically Unable to Perform list) for the first six weeks of the season.[13] The suspensions were then reviewed by former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who overruled Roger Goodell and vacated the suspensions on December 11
1. Not at all. Someone who disagrees with me certainly might. I would expect they'd be able to demonstrate that.
Just because someone is able does not mean they are forced to demonstrate it on demand. Especially if they feel the demonstration they're watching doesn't merit it.
Exactly which factor did I miss?
"One of the traits..."
And there you are in Bellichick's head again. He hasn't had any problem breaking or at the very least stretching the rules in the past. What exactly makes you think he'd draw the line here?
Which rules are you insinuating Belichick broke or stretched, whatever that's supposed to mean? Because as far as I can see, Bill Belichick's integrity is only challenged by the ignorant and partisan.
3 & 4. Have you ever used a hand/foot pump or the like to fill a bike tire? Ever use your thumb to check to see if it was full? Like that.
Very familiar with the action of filling bicycle tires, motorcycle tires, car tires, truck tires, tractor tires and yes, footballs. My comment still stands. Read the article about Eli's footballs and their preparation from 2013. A huge amount of work is done in getting them right, but nada about the pressure of the ball.
Now, we don't know exactly why it wasn't mentioned, but a reasonable supposition was the air inside wasn't crucial to him because he couldn't tell a difference, whereas he could feel a HUGE difference in the texture and elasticity of the COVER.
Sorry, but after watching football for 55 years, this thing about the psi of the ball as a reason for success or failure as a qb is the LAMEST excuse for failure that I've ever seen and anyone going to war over it is a gigantic ****ing pussy.
but that's just me. I'm sure the haters have a different opinion of their reasons for smearing the game they're supposed to care about.
Tweet
Comment