Spygate

[CommissarSpartacus]

Since it appears obvious that most people don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to "Spygate" lets see if you guys have the courage to answer some questions.

First of all, is looking at the other team's sideline against the rules?

If an assistant coach comes to you as the HC and says "Coach, I've been watching the other team's DC and I've noticed that everytime he runs his hand trough his hair, it's a 2one, and when he drinks some gatoraid, it's man to man and when he scratches his ass, it's a blit2. Do you want me to tell our coaches and qb?", would you say...

1. "Great job son, we'll keep an eye on it", or....

2. "No, don't tell them and forget what you saw. It's against the intent of the rules!"?

[mightysimi]

I vote for 1. There is a difference between doing it during the game by eye then reviewing the signals after the fact on video including the down and distance and using that knowledge for the next games.

[harmonkoz]

Since it appears obvious that most people don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to "Spygate" lets see if you guys have the courage to answer some questions.

First of all, is looking at the other team's sideline against the rules?

If an assistant coach comes to you as the HC and says "Coach, I've been watching the other team's DC and I've noticed that everytime he runs his hand trough his hair, it's a 2one, and when he drinks some gatoraid, it's man to man and when he scratches his ass, it's a blit2. Do you want me to tell our coaches and qb?", would you say...

1. "Great job son, we'll keep an eye on it", or....

2. "No, don't tell them and forget what you saw. It's against the intent of the rules!"?

3. Forget what you saw, we don't cheat.

And the last word, sort of, from Don Shula.
This comes from Jim Steeg, who for years ran the Super Bowl and big NFL events:“Back in the seventies, the Dolphins were going to play the Raiders in Oakland. They practiced at the Oakland Coliseum on Saturday, and in the locker room Larry Csonka found laying there the Raiders’ game plan for the next day’s game. He gave it to [Dolphins offensive line coach] Monte Clark to give to Don Shula, which Monte did.“The next day the Dolphins got beat by the Raiders. Csonka went to Monte and asked, ‘How did we lose? We had their game plan.’
“Monte’s response: ‘I gave it to Don and he threw it in the trash. He said, ‘We do not cheat!’ ”

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/26/super-...inovich-ref/3/

[CommissarSpartacus]

I vote for 1. There is a difference between doing it during the game by eye then reviewing the signals after the fact on video including the down and distance and using that knowledge for the next games.

So, "stealing" signs is okay as long as you don't use a video camera? How about a still camera? Pen and paper?

[Joe Fo Sho]

So, "stealing" signs is okay as long as you don't use a video camera? How about a still camera? Pen and paper?

Pretty sure pen and paper would be legal. I think they're rules against electronic devices on the sideline that are not provided by the NFL.

[CommissarSpartacus]

3. Forget what you saw, we don't cheat.

So why not just let them hold up signs saying 2one, man to man, or blit2 and just make it against the rules for anyone on the opposing team to look at them?

[Pinkerton Security]

Do you dream of Tom Brady's schlong in your mouth each night or you just really enjoy defending people who get caught cheating?

[mightysimi]

So, "stealing" signs is okay as long as you don't use a video camera? How about a still camera? Pen and paper?

Yes stealing signs has always been a part of every sport. As long as it's done on the field without electronic aid, I have no problem with it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Pretty sure pen and paper would be legal. I think they're rules against electronic devices on the sideline that are not provided by the NFL.

What's the difference? Pen and paper and video cameras are both "technology", ie recording devices.

What's the difference?

And when the Pats started doing this, video cameras had already been aroound for 20 years and using them weren't against the rules.

They only became against the rules when the other teams found out about it when Mangini, who had benefitted from it, complained to Goodell AFTER he became the Jets HC.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yes stealing signs has always been a part of every sport. As long as it's done on the field without electronic aid, I have no problem with it.

Video cameras are just recording devices.

They can't do your thinking for you. It just gives you a data base.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Do you dream of Tom Brady's schlong in your mouth each night or you just really enjoy defending people who get caught cheating?

Football fans...

[Joe Fo Sho]

What's the difference? Pen and paper and video cameras are both "technology", ie recording devices.

What's the difference?

If there's no difference, why did New England use them?

And when the Pats started doing this, video cameras had already been aroound for 20 years and using them weren't against the rules.

My understanding was the placement of the cameras was illegal. You can film the 'all-22' view, but there are zoom and camera placement restrictions.

They only became against the rules when the other teams found out about it when Mangini, who had benefitted from it, complained to Goodell AFTER he became the Jets HC.

I'm not sure this is true. Link?

[harmonkoz]

Do you dream of Tom Brady's schlong in your mouth each night or you just really enjoy defending people who get caught cheating?

He's a dreamer.

[CommissarSpartacus]

If there's no difference, why did New England use them?



My understanding was the placement of the cameras was illegal. You can film the 'all-22' view, but there are zoom and camera placement restrictions.



I'm not sure this is true. Link?

1. Because it was convenient. Modern era and all that...

2. The placements of cameras was part of the rule put in place to thwart what the pats had been doing for years.

3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

Mangini, the pat's DC, was offered the HC job with the Jets. Belichek objected, as his position was ALWAYS that he would support any of his staff taking an HC job IN ANOTHER DIVISION, which is entirely reasonable.

Mangini took it anyway and then went to the commissioner to tell trade secrets.

That's how it started and it's why belichek hates Mangini, who was a protoge of Bill's...

Belichek MADE Mangini's career, then Mangini stabbed him in the back.

[Joe Fo Sho]

1. Because it was convenient. Modern era and all that...

Convenience and ease of use is a distinct advantage and against the rules. They call that cheating, even on the playground.

2. The placements of cameras was part of the rule put in place to thwart what the pats had been doing for years.

3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

If you're not going to support your argument, why would anyone believe it?

[Pinkerton Security]

1. Because it was convenient. Modern era and all that...

2. The placements of cameras was part of the rule put in place to thwart what the pats had been doing for years.

3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

Mangini, the pat's DC, was offered the HC job with the Jets. Belichek objected, as his position was ALWAYS that he would support any of his staff taking an HC job IN ANOTHER DIVISION, which is entirely reasonable.

Mangini took it anyway and then went to the commissioner to tell trade secrets.

That's how it started and it's why belichek hates Mangini, who was a protoge of Bill's...

Belichek MADE Mangini's career, then Mangini stabbed him in the back.

So your argument is that they cheated because it was convenient? and then you won't bother to back your points up, so you refer to the "TRUST ME" cop-out?

The Pats were punished for cheating and spying on opponents, right? So why are you defending them? The NFL ruled that they broke the rules, so I don't see where your argument lies. "They only cheated because it was easy!"

[DynaPaul]

Big difference between noticing it realtime and videotaping it for reverse engineering later.

[EricStratton]

It's against the rules because the NFL has a rule against it. Prior to the Pats getting banged for it a memo went around the league reminding teams that there was a rule against it and the Patriots did it anyway.

With QB's being able to hear the coach until 15 seconds remain on the play clock having a recorded version of the hand signals (and from the original spygate story the video was analyzed during the game itself, not to use another week) it would allow the coach to tell the QB exactly what to expect as it was happening.

The NFL determined that was not allowed just like they currently say those tablets can't show video, only still pictures and the Patriots got caught ignoring that

It's really that simple.

[Lucidvizion]

It doesn't have to be against the rules to be wrong. That's what people without integrity have trouble understanding.

The game is meant to be played on the field, not through some meta game on the sidelines or through altering equipment. Doing things outside of the intent of the game is an implicit rule violation.

The Pats could have gone to the league and asked for permission if they thought they were in a gray area. Not doing so was underhanded and meant to give a one-sided advantage (i.e. they weren't just opting for modern conveniences).

[coastal]

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