If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
All: The new Billszone site with the updated software is scheduled to be turned on Tuesday, May 21, 2024. The company that built it, Dynascale, estimates a FOUR HOUR shut down, from 8pm Pacific, (5pm Eastern) while they get it up and running. Nobody will be able to post in any forum until they are done. Afterwards, you may need to do a web search for the site, as old links will not work, because the site is getting a new IP address. Please be patient. If there are bugs, we will tackle them one at a time. Remember the goal is to be up and running with no glitches by camp. Doing this now assures us of that, because it gives us all summer to get our ducks in a row. Thank you!
There is work to be done and things to be learned. We are going to try to get the old look back - or something close to it. We also know there are bugs. A thread will be started to report bugs and then we can pass those onto the host.
Thank you for all the patience and support with this - hopefully this will greatly reduce the crashes and other site issues we have had lately.
Please use this thread to report any issues you come across
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/forum/feedback-forums/billszone-q-a/6521455-upgrade-report-bugs-here
When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans
They wouldn't be allowed to because there is a protocol and that is the QB's have control over the balls up until they turn them in the morning of the game for inspection, then the balls are delivered in a bag 10 minutes before kickoff. So no, Brady would no be warming up with game balls. Here' s an article on the subject. http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...wpL/story.html
I thought McNaly's texts indicated he was really upset at Brady AND McNally knew what he was doing was against the rules. His texts show he was pissed that Brady chastized him for missing a ball or two in the Jets game and was threatening to get even with him by over-inflating the balls.
The day after Brady used a 16-psi ball in the Jets game:
McNally: "Tom sucks…im going to make that next ball a f—in balDemocrat." (Oct. 17, 2014)
Jastremski: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…" (Oct. 17, 2014)
McNally: "16 is nothing… wait till next Sunday" (Oct. 17, 2014)
It sounds like McNally was unable to deflate at least one of the balls used in the Jets game. It doesn't sound like McNally inflated the ball in the Jets game, but clearly he is threatening to inflate balls in the future because he is mad at Tom. It definitely points to a systemic program of tampering with psi, with the process being driven by Tom Brady and strong indications that the lackeys doing the dirty work are reluctant participants threatening to undermine the scheme.
The following week McNally is clearly still PO'd at Brady:
McNally: "Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so tom can get used to it before Sunday" (Oct. 21, 2014)
McNally: "F— tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..f—in watermelons coming" (Oct. 23, 2014)
He is clearly threatening to INFLATE balls to get back at Brady. Why would McNally be mad at Tom Brady?
Seems like Brady is an ass to these underlings.
He may well be an ass when it comes to the condition of the footballs, probably most QB's are obsessed with having the right feel.
But your conclusion is not logical based on all the texts. jastremski is saying for the Jets game (the game that resulted in some overinflated balls in play) that the refs added air and didn't retest to see if the amount they added was right. McNally certainly didn't turn any balls in at 16. Brady was lashing out probably not realizing who did what to the balls. And McNally was butt sore about getting reamed. My theory from the jump was Brady was VERY particular about the footballs, liked them on the low side and probably knew the refs are very sloppy about inspecting them. So they turn them in at 12.5, maybe some a little under, knowing the refs probably just check a few and if they're close thrown the rest in the bag. It's doubtful they needed to take the extremely risky step of letting air out every week, the refs didn't check them close enough to make that necessary. But if one week the refs inflated some balls well over regulation and Brady had a cow, maybe McNally felt he needed to be more proactive.
He may well be an ass when it comes to the condition of the footballs, probably most QB's are obsessed with having the right feel.
But your conclusion is not logical based on all the texts. jastremski is saying for the Jets game (the game that resulted in some overinflated balls in play) that the refs added air and didn't retest to see if the amount they added was right. McNally certainly didn't turn any balls in at 16. Brady was lashing out probably not realizing who did what to the balls. And McNally was butt sore about getting reamed. My theory from the jump was Brady was VERY particular about the footballs, liked them on the low side and probably knew the refs are very sloppy about inspecting them. So they turn them in at 12.5, maybe some a little under, knowing the refs probably just check a few and if they're close thrown the rest in the bag. It's doubtful they needed to take the extremely risky step of letting air out every week, the refs didn't check them close enough to make that necessary. But if one week the refs inflated some balls well over regulation and Brady had a cow, maybe McNally felt he needed to be more proactive.
I find it totally plausibe that the refs did overfill a few balls, but the texts indicate something more going on. For example, there's the text from Jastremski to McNally about Brady saying McNally must have been under pressure (pun intended) to get them done. Why would Brady specifically mention McNally in a conversation to Jastremski if the refs did it? McNally's job should be done after giving the balls to the refs other than carrying them out to the field. It doesn't make sense unless McNally has been routinely asked to underinflate balls after the refs inspect them.
The problem would still be solved if the refs had complete control over the footballs.
The changes needed would be very minor.
Step 1: decide on an air gauge that both teams and refs are going to use. One kind. Obviously when there is a variance of close to half a pound of PSI from two different gauges you have a problem. It really could be an important component in what set this problem in motion. Let's say Brady has McNally using the "Acme" gauge before the Jets game and he turns in the balls at what Acme says is 12.5 or maybe some a few ticks under. But the ref then tests the balls with "Gauge X" and he happens to start his testing at one of the low balls Brady was trying to slip through at say 12.2. But Gauge X has the ball at 11.8. Now the ref is pissed and he starts adding air like a banchi to NE's footballs and they end of playing with some watermelons. Why else would the ref have overinflated the balls? And we know Jastremski says in a private text last October that some balls measured at 16 the day after the Jets game. Think about it.
Step 2: Actually test the balls and make sure they're all inflated to the QB's preference within legal limits. Do you believe the refs have made it a practice to carefully test every football? I sure don't. Why? Because nobody really cared that much about the subject. They'll sure care now, don't you think?
Step 3: Don't give the balls to the teams until they're delivered to the sidelines by the refs themselves or an NFL worker. Pretty sure no one is going to try deflating balls in front of 70,000 onlookers with cameras covering every inch of an NFL stadium.
I find it totally plausibe that the refs did overfill a few balls, but the texts indicate something more going on. For example, there's the text from Jastremski to McNally about Brady saying McNally must have been under pressure (pun intended) to get them done. Why would Brady specifically mention McNally in a conversation to Jastremski if the refs did it? McNally's job should be done after giving the balls to the refs other than carrying them out to the field. It doesn't make sense unless McNally has been routinely asked to underinflate balls after the refs inspect them.
If you're right then McNally is a truly incompetent deflator is he's leaving balls at 16. I think the scheme was a lot more nuanced then that. I think they were submitting 12 balls and half were at 12.5 and half at say 12.2. The pressure on McNally was getting the mix right the pressure right to slide some balls past a lazy ref inspecting the balls. Let out too much on too many balls and you end up with the refs making watermelons.
If you're right then McNally is a truly incompetent deflator is he's leaving balls at 16.
Really? Is that the only possibility? There's no chance that the bathroom he uses to deflate the balls was occupied and he just wasn't able to do his job that one time?
Step 1: decide on an air gauge that both teams and refs are going to use. One kind. Obviously when there is a variance of close to half a pound of PSI from two different gauges you have a problem. It really could be an important component in what set this problem in motion. Let's say Brady has McNally using the "Acme" gauge before the Jets game and he turns in the balls at what Acme says is 12.5 or maybe some a few ticks under. But the ref then tests the balls with "Gauge X" and he happens to start his testing at one of the low balls Brady was trying to slip through at say 12.2. But Gauge X has the ball at 11.8. Now the ref is pissed and he starts adding air like a banchi to NE's footballs and they end of playing with some watermelons. Why else would the ref have overinflated the balls? And we know Jastremski says in a private text last October that some balls measured at 16 the day after the Jets game. Think about it.
The gauges don't have to be the same make and model. They just need to be calibrated and NIST traceable. Why are the two teams using different footballs though still? That is unnecessary. Put 20 footballs in a bag and play with those.
Yes, Jastremski says his gauge measured 16...what gauge did he use? Was his gauge out of spec? Who knows.
Step 2: Actually test the balls and make sure they're all inflated to the QB's preference within legal limits. Do you believe the refs have made it a practice to carefully test every football? I sure don't. Why? Because nobody really cared that much about the subject. They'll sure care now, don't you think?
It sucks that the 'change' required is that the refs need to follow the protocol now. Some refs may have followed the protocol perfectly, some may not have cared at all. There's obviously a problem.
Step 3: Don't give the balls to the teams until they're delivered to the sidelines by the refs themselves or an NFL worker. Pretty sure no one is going to try deflating balls in front of 70,000 onlookers with cameras covering every inch of an NFL stadium.
Don't give the balls to the teams at all then. Have NFL ball boys that are neutral and travel with the refs. That only seems necessary now that someone is accused of tampering.
If you're right then McNally is a truly incompetent deflator is he's leaving balls at 16. I think the scheme was a lot more nuanced then that. I think they were submitting 12 balls and half were at 12.5 and half at say 12.2. The pressure on McNally was getting the mix right the pressure right to slide some balls past a lazy ref inspecting the balls. Let out too much on too many balls and you end up with the refs making watermelons.
I disagree because of what the Well's report tells us.
On pg. 38 the report tells us "Although Jastremski occasionally receives assistance from other members of the equipment staff, he is responsible for the ball preparation process from start to finish." It goes on to say that Jastemski then prepares the balls throughout the week up and do "finishing touches about on hour before" on game day.
Also on pg. 40, it tells us "before the October 2014 game against the Jets, it had been his (Jastremski's) practice to inflate Patriots game balls to a level between 12.75 and 12.85 psi without thinking much about it, simply because, according to Jastremski, that had been the range targeted by his predecessor."
McNally's role is something else entirely (pg. 42). According to it, "McNally's primary responsibility is to prepare the Officials Locker Room for the game officials, and attend to their needs both before and during the game. McNally considers himself a “liaison” for the officials, and is there to provide or help with “whatever they need.” In this role, he is responsible for bringing items like towels, toiletries, time sheets and game programs to the locker room prior to the game. He also is responsible for bringing an air pump and pressure gauge from the Patriots equipment room to the Officials Locker Room in case they are needed by the officials during their pre-game examination of game balls. McNally explained
that he obtains the air pump and pressure gauge from the equipment room after Jastremski has finished inflating and adjusting the pressure in the Patriots game balls."
I bolded the important part. So the question is, "Why would Brady be mad at McNally and say McNally must have been under pressure to get them done?"
Really? Is that the only possibility? There's no chance that the bathroom he uses to deflate the balls was occupied and he just wasn't able to do his job that one time?
Speaking of bathrooms, let's not forget McNally's story about using the bathroom during the AFCCG didn't add up.
"With respect to his decision to use the bathroom, McNally claimed that he has used the bathroom near the field entrance while in possession of the game balls many times. He said that on the day of the AFC Championship Game, he entered the bathroom, dropped the ball bags to his left, and used the urinal to his right. That bathroom, however, does not contain a urinal."
Speaking of bathrooms, let's not forget McNally's story about using the bathroom during the AFCCG didn't add up.
"With respect to his decision to use the bathroom, McNally claimed that he has used the bathroom near the field entrance while in possession of the game balls many times. He said that on the day of the AFC Championship Game, he entered the bathroom, dropped the ball bags to his left, and used the urinal to his right. That bathroom, however, does not contain a urinal."
Does it contain a cubicle with a toilet?
Why would McNally lie about the configuration of the bathroom, for god's sake?
What difference would it make to him that he'd lie?
It's not like they aren't going to check the bathroom?
Really? Is that the only possibility? There's no chance that the bathroom he uses to deflate the balls was occupied and he just wasn't able to do his job that one time?
Ok let's go there. Let's say you're right and McNally was being told by Brady to deflate balls and this one week he failed at his job. It's a violation to tamper with balls period after the ref approves them, we know that. But was the goal to let air out below the 12.5 minimum? These texts from Jaz after the Jets game make that seem questionable at best.
Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right. Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks
Isn't it possible that Brady wanted the balls a certain way and he felt the refs were ****ing with the balls after he turned them in and he wanted his guy to "fix" them? That would still be illegal but it's a violation without a crime. Fact is there is nothing in the report that indicates Brady wanted the balls below 12.5 PSI.
Ok let's go there. Let's say you're right and McNally was being told by Brady to deflate balls and this one week he failed at his job. It's a violation to tamper with balls period after the ref approves them, we know that. But was the goal to let air out below the 12.5 minimum? These texts from Jaz after the Jets game make that seem questionable at best.
Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right. Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks
Isn't it possible that Brady wanted the balls a certain way and he felt the refs were ****ing with the balls after he turned them in and he wanted his guy to "fix" them? That would still be illegal but it's a violation without a crime. Fact is there is nothing in the report that indicates Brady wanted the balls below 12.5 PSI.
I actually do believe the refs tried to f*** them. Probably because they were constantly submitting underinflated balls and were tired of it. As for McNally, I just think McNally has done it for so long, they he simply knows to stick a needle in, count to 2 Mississippi and the balls will be close to Brady's preference pressure (which wouldn't work though, if the refs overinflated the balls to 16 psi).
I actually do believe the refs tried to f*** them. Probably because they were constantly submitting underinflated balls and were tired of it. As for McNally, I just think McNally has done it for so long, they he simply knows to stick a needle in, count to 2 Mississippi and the balls will be close to Brady's preference pressure (which wouldn't work though, if the refs overinflated the balls to 16 psi).
So in your mind the refs diligently test all balls and the entire ref staff never said a word to the Patriots or to the league that NE was consistently submitting balls below regulation? Instead they just overinflate them? Seems doubtful but if so shame on them. I don't think NE is alone on this by the way. And if I'm right the refs would be ignoring all teams submitting over or underinflated balls. Even if NE was alone in this it would probably have been enough if the refs complained to the league that they would have taken away the QB's control of the balls. No?
Tweet
Comment