I didn't notice this gem earlier, but you said the officials have been the ones filling the balls, and that is categorically untrue.
I didn't notice this gem earlier, but you said the officials have been the ones filling the balls, and that is categorically untrue.
They're supposed to add air to any balls tested that are below the minimum. That's kind of the point of the test.Originally Posted by ICRockets
The officials do it themselves? You're sure they don't give them back to the team to put the right amount of air in?
It doesn't appear that way no. And Bill Bellichick said as much at one of his press conferences. And the whole deflating thing in my opinion probably came down to the fact that Brady did not trust the refs to leave the footballs he prepared alone. Check out this text exchange from the Wells report:
The closest Jastremski or McNally comes to saying Brady is in on any deflation is when Jastremski texts the following:
Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…
Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though…
Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn… The refs (expletive) us…a few of then were at almost 16
Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them
This was after the Patriots’ Week 7 win over the New York Jets, and it actually raises more questions than answers.
If McNally’s stress was to deflate footballs, then why were they at 16 PSI the next morning? Apparently, McNally wasn’t doing his job very well.
Why were the footballs at 16 PSI at all? The Patriots must have submitted footballs under 12.5, the officials must have refilled them, and they refilled them way too much without checking the level, proving no one really cared about football inflation or deflation as recently as October.
CommissarSpartacus (05-20-2015)
And this is also in the report:
McNally also sends these texts to his fiancée that week:
Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right.
Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks
This is actually the only text in which Brady’s desired PSI is revealed, and it’s not 12.5 or lower. McNally told the officials Brady wanted the footballs inflated to 12.5. A common theme in Jastremski and McNally’s texts is Brady complaining about the PSI level in footballs, but it all seems to be related to the Jets game, when they were overfilled by 3.5 PSI.
CommissarSpartacus (05-20-2015)
Is there, or is there NOT a non-disclosure agreement?
Don't imagine, tell me what you know.
My tebya razdavim
Oh god, I can smell another picayune quibble coming on.
What is it, the officials don't FILL the balls per se, they just check them and refill them if necessary?
Again, a totally irrelevant distinction...
My opinion as well.
If you take the ref Walt Coleman's word for what gauge he used to test the Patriots footballs before the game (the Wells report didn't) and you factor in that at halftime the Colts balls were inside the locker room for over 10 minutes before their 4 balls were tested it's not at all clear the Patriots footballs were deflated at all.
Anderson said he recalls using the “logo” gauge, which reads higher than the non-logo gauge. The Wells Report ignored Anderson’s recollection and chose to assume he used the non-logo gauge because it suited their data better.
If the logo gauge was used before the AFC Championship Game, then the Patriots’ footballs averaged 11.48 PSI at halftime, which is well within the level a football can drop according to the Ideal Gas Law during the AFC Championship Game. If the non-logo gauge was used, then it looks far more damning for the Patriots. That’s the issue, though. No one knows which gauge was used, and it’s entirely possible Anderson used both gauges before the game to measure PSI for both teams and reduce pressure in the Patriots’ footballs.
If the NFL wants footballs to fall within a 1 PSI range, then it can’t use gauges that range considerably from one another.
— Colts footballs were tested after Patriots footballs
The footballs were brought inside the officials locker room at halftime, and 11 Patriots footballs and four Colts footballs were tested. The Patriots footballs were tested, and possibly refilled, before the officials tested the Colts footballs. The officials were in the locker room for 13-and-a-half minutes, and based on data collected in the Wells Report, a cold, damp football can raise 0.7 PSI in 13 minutes. That amount of time would at least partially explain why the Patriots’ footballs deflated more than the Colts’ footballs.
Only testing four Colts footballs — because of time restraints — is another issue because of small sample size. The Colts footballs were supposed to serve as a “control,” but that idea was destroyed when the footballs weren’t tested simultaneously, and when the NFL decided to test just four footballs from Indianapolis.
CommissarSpartacus (05-20-2015)
What is stopping Tom from noticing the balls were over filled and informing the refs of their mistake? Seems like you could remedy this situation extremely quickly during pre-game warmups. Especially since Tom can notice the difference between 12.5 and 13.5 psi, even though he claims he wouldn't notice. There just seems like ways to fix this problem that don't violate any rules.
Do the QB's warm up with game balls? I doubt it.
CommissarSpartacus (05-20-2015)
I'm pretty sure they do. They use them all week, as I understand it.
BTW, I don't know if this has been posted so far but it bears reposting, especially for the guy who went to Eli Manning for back up.
A VERY extensive article on the VERY extensive work that goes into being one of Eli Manning's footballs...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sp...king.html?_r=0
Eli Manning’s Footballs Are Months in Making
By BILL PENNINGTONNOV. 23, 2013
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — When Eli Manning drops back to throw his first pass Sunday against the Dallas Cowboys, the football in his hands will be as familiar as an old friend.
That is because the ball has been scoured, scrubbed, soaked and seasoned, a breaking-in process that takes months and ensures that every ball used by the Giants in a game will meet Manning’s exact preferences. The leather will have been softened, the grip enhanced and the overall feel painstakingly assessed.
There are no new balls thrown around in an N.F.L. game. A new ball, despised for its sheen and waxy gloss, is as popular as a late hit.
For every N.F.L. game, each team has 12 to 20 balls that it has meticulously groomed and prepared according to the needs of its starting quarterback. The balls, brushed and primed using various obvious and semisecret techniques, bear the team logo and are switched out from sideline to sideline depending on which team is on offense.
That means that from series to series, the ball in play can feel wholly different, but each team’s quarterback always has a ball prepped by his equipment staff the way he likes it.
Nothing is left to chance. The Giants, for example, have a special set of a dozen pregame practice balls so Manning can warm up with footballs that will feel exactly the same as the game balls, which are inspected and approved by the game officials before play starts.
In all, there are always about 36 specially marked Eli Manning balls sequestered and protected in four large ball bags. If a coach looking for a ball at practice should unwittingly approach one of the bags, the team’s equipment director, Joe Skiba, will pounce: “Get away, those are Eli’s game balls.”
Skiba added: “No one is allowed to touch those balls. They’re precious jewels. Too much work has gone into them.”
When the Giants play away games, the balls are kept in a special trunk, although it is not labeled “Game Balls.” That might lead to sabotage.
There are all kinds of peculiar rituals and routines before an N.F.L. game — carried out by pregame pad inspectors, the uniform police, sideline communications system overseers — but perhaps no piece of the game within the game receives as much attention as the football.
In the case of the Giants, preparing the game balls used from September to December begins in summer training camp.
The Giants will start with six to seven dozen new footballs.
...more...
I guess I don't know. Why wouldn't they be allowed to? I feel like that wouldn't be a very big deal.
Again, this would all be solved by having the refs have complete control over the footballs.
I bet his footballs are within spec on gameday though.
The day after Brady used a 16-psi ball in the Jets game:
McNally: "Tom sucks…im going to make that next ball a f—in balDemocrat." (Oct. 17, 2014)
Jastremski: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…" (Oct. 17, 2014)
McNally: "16 is nothing… wait till next Sunday" (Oct. 17, 2014)
It sounds like McNally was unable to deflate at least one of the balls used in the Jets game. It doesn't sound like McNally inflated the ball in the Jets game, but clearly he is threatening to inflate balls in the future because he is mad at Tom. It definitely points to a systemic program of tampering with psi, with the process being driven by Tom Brady and strong indications that the lackeys doing the dirty work are reluctant participants threatening to undermine the scheme.
The following week McNally is clearly still PO'd at Brady:
McNally: "Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so tom can get used to it before Sunday" (Oct. 21, 2014)
McNally: "F— tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..f—in watermelons coming" (Oct. 23, 2014)
He is clearly threatening to INFLATE balls to get back at Brady. Why would McNally be mad at Tom Brady?
Seems like Brady is an ass to these underlings.
Last edited by Strongman; 05-20-2015 at 09:20 PM.
coastal (05-21-2015)
I know as much as you about the entire matter.
Which is to say nothing but what I have read.
But you try to pass off opinions of Pats* fans as facts.
This is not a tv cartoon or sitcom.
So, you DON'T know if there's a non-disclosure agreement.
Neither do I, nor have I read about one, so there is no reason to think that a non-disclosure agreement comes into play at all.
Thus, the question remains...
Why don't these two rat out Tom Brady if he's guilty? It seems they don't like him that much, so why should they protect him?
Could it possibly be that Brady isn't guilty and never asked the two to break any rules?
There is no evidence that Tom Brady's footballs weren't within spec either.
Well, I did read about it on profootballtalk.com.
You can go through their archives to find it.
And non-disclosure agreements are pretty common.
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