When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

[feldspar]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

Spartacus, buddy...have you read the report yet?

Answer.

If not, then perhaps you should.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

So you're trying to prove a point to the very people you know are incapable of hearing it? And you think this makes sense?

Absolutely. Otherwise one is just preaching to the converted.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

They really don't. You've been trying to make that point for 5 months, and it hasn't made a lick of sense to me in that entire time.

So, by your own standard, it makes no sense to talk to you about this, correct?

Or should I make an attempt to remind you that the equipment manager's email said it was common knowledge around the league, not that he'd "systematically noticed" (whatever that is) under-inflated balls in the games with the Patriots?

We'll see from your reply whether you wish to discuss it, or argue with me, thus rendering the attempt nonsensical...

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

This is gibberish. You're trying too hard to convince me of your righteous indignation.

Only gibberish to those who refuse to think about it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

Spartacus, buddy...have you read the report yet?

Answer.

If not, then perhaps you should.

Why? Is it required? Have you read it?

[feldspar]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

Why? Is it required? Have you read it?

If you want to go around telling everyone what's what, then yeah, it's definitely required to read the report. Otherwise, you're talking out of your ass. If you want to discredit something you haven't read, then you are talking out of you ass.

I've read the majority of the report and skimmed through the rest, since you asked.

Now return the favor...have you read the report?

[ICRockets]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

So, by your own standard, it makes no sense to talk to you about this, correct?

Or should I make an attempt to remind you that the equipment manager's email said it was common knowledge around the league, not that he'd "systematically noticed" (whatever that is) under-inflated balls in the games with the Patriots?

We'll see from your reply whether you wish to discuss it, or argue with me, thus rendering the attempt nonsensical...

I'm not "immune to logic and reason" just because I think you're wrong, but I don't think the conversation can really go anywhere if you're going to continue to ignore the fact that McNally and Jastremski texted each other about deflating the balls in the middle of the season.

You seem to want to argue both sides of this, and it's a little baffling what your ultimate point is. In one post you insist that the Patriots aren't lying when they proclaim total innocence. But then you talk about how it's common knowledge around the league that they were deflating the footballs.

If you want to keep talking about this, I'd appreciate it if you stop being coy and tell me exactly what it is you believe happened. What point are you trying to make by harping on Ryan Grigson's role?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

If you want to go around telling everyone what's what, then yeah, it's definitely required to read the report.

And yet you haven't read it yourself, have you? But that's okay, I haven't critici2ed anyone for not reading the report.

One doesn't need to read the Bible, the Torah or the Koran from front to back to have an intelligent opinion about religion.

And if you'll notice, no one has caught me in any errors vis a vis what the report says, have they?

You're floundering dude, desperately searching for some sort of avenue of attack and failing miserably.

But if you want to tell us all how I've made crucial mistakes because I haven't subjected myself to 300 odd pages of baloney, then be my guest.

See how well you do.

[coastal]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

I keep arguing and people keep arguing with me and I'm winning!

im the northern knight of truth and stfu.

[Famous Amos]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

I just read a terrific book by Ken Follett called the Pillars of the Earth. It's about the building of the Kingsbridge Cathedral in the late 1100s and the plot is all about various conspiracies by the rich and powerful to ruin and besmirch the reputations of good hearted people for their own benefit.

Have you read it?

It was a very good book. tried to watch the miniseries but I couldnt get into it. I loved the in depth detail of the architecture of the cathedral and the process of constructing a project that takes a generation or two to complete. I havent read it in a while, but I enjoyed the dynamics of the peasant family. Despite it's length, its a very accessible novel. I am tempted to check out the next book in the series.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

I'm not "immune to logic and reason" just because I think you're wrong, but I don't think the conversation can really go anywhere if you're going to continue to ignore the fact that McNally and Jastremski texted each other about deflating the balls in the middle of the season.

Huh? The "deflator" email was sent on May 14, 2014. What other emails are you talking about?

You seem to want to argue both sides of this, and it's a little baffling what your ultimate point is.

My point so far is the accusations against Brady are far from conclusively proved and that it's not Brady's responsibility to prove himself innocent in the face of what so far seems to be a very weak case. Like I said, if an accusation is all that's required to force people to fight for there lives, then we're all in deep trouble.

In one post you insist that the Patriots aren't lying when they proclaim total innocence.

I don't remember insisting any such thing. I'm not God and all-knowing. But I don't have to agree the Pats are lying because others insist they are and I don't have to insist the Pats are totally innocent to make the point they haven't been proved guilty of what they are accused of. For example, they could be guilty of deflating the balls, but only to make sure they are at the legal lower limit, as I have read that Brady in the past has been aggravated by balls delivered by the refs in the range of 16.0 psi.

The fact that before the Colts game, the refs used two gauges with different readings and didn't bother to log the pressures from each gauge shows how cavalierly the league treated the issue.

Plus, to take for granted that McNally could have deflated the balls in the washroom while ignoring the possibility the Colts could have let some air out on their sideline seems utterly biased to me. The Colts were obviously trying to throw off the Pats, so they have motive just as the Pats have motive, and if you ignore it, your agenda is clear.

But then you talk about how it's common knowledge around the league that they were deflating the footballs.

I didn't say that it was common knowledge around the league, I said that's what the Colts equipment manager said in his email to Grigson the week before the game. See, this is why I tear my hair out talking about this to people that should know better. You claim you are not immune to logic and reason. Let's see.

If the EM sends an email to Grigson in the week before the game saying it's common knowledge, how can he claim it's common knowledge around the league when ostensibly, HE JUST LEARNED ABOUT IT? The only way he could do that is if SOMEONE ELSE told him it was common knowledge around the league, but the EM didn't say that. He implied that it was HIS JUDGMENT that it was common knowledge. So, it's more than possible, the EM is lying.nd if it was common knowledge, is it believable that Grigson didn't know anything about it until he read the email? I doubt that as well. So, that's two lies. Now, apparently, Grigson did NOTHING about this information until, conveniently, a Pats ball falls into the hands of the Colts sideline where a Colts employee (who can put his hands on a pin as easy as enyone else), NOT A PLAYER, supposedly says to himself, "This ball is soft". He then reports it to his superior who reports it to Grigson who decides to make a big deal of it during the game, to the point that NFL officials are coming up to the Pats and telling them "Boy, are you guys in big ****ing trouble!". DURING THE GAME. And who was that official? Just a guy who'd worked for the Jets for 20 years.

If you want to keep talking about this, I'd appreciate it if you stop being coy and tell me exactly what it is you believe happened. What point are you trying to make by harping on Ryan Grigson's role?

Excuse me, but insisting I know things for sure (like the haters) when I don't isn't being coy, it's being realistic and objective, but I'll give you a possible scenario if you wish.

In 2006, Brady and Manning go to the rules commitee and petition them to allow the qbs to prepare their own game balls. It goes through with, among other regs, the pressure parameters. If Brady knew at that time he liked the balls softer than that, why didn't he ask the league to adjust them at the same time? It's all in the service of improving qb play, so why not? Probably because he was happy with the lower limit.

Now, through the ensuing years, the refs got increasinly sloppy with filling the balls with air and over-filling them. So, since there was no procedure to appeal to the refs before kickoff to check the pressures, it's possible Brady *****ed to his boys about it and his boys promised to make sure they were at the lower limit when the game started. Tom, in return, did some small favors for his boys in appreciation.

So, through the years it became known around the league that Brady, and maybe Manning and others from the 20 were making sure themselves that the balls were at the lower limit. Common knowledge and no intention to break the rules, just correcting a problem. Everyone knew about it, including Grigson.

So, the big game approaches and Grigson fears that Brady's domination of his team will continue, so he thinks to himself, what can I do to give my team an edge? So, he comes up with this bright idea to sting Brady DURING the game about the ball pressure. Grigson knows that Mike Kensil hates the Pats, so he arranges the sting with him and get's his EM to send him the email the week before the game to establish that he knew NOTHING about this until he read the email.

So, between Grigson, the equipment manager, Kensil and maybe Vincent, they have everyone they need to pull this off.

They know the Deflator will ensure the Pats balls are at the lower limit before they're taken outside, and because of the temp will be below at halftime, so all they need is to get their hands on one ball on the sidelines to start the ball rolling.

Jackson brings the ball over, gives it to the equipment guys, they deflate it further and then Grigson swings into action and the rest is history. Goodell didn't even need to be in the loop, but the last thing he needs is for his own boys to be fingered, so he has to go along with it if he's smart enough to figure it out, and if he isn't, so much the better.


Anyway, when you're considering this, please remember that the NFL is accusing Tom Brady and his boys of being conspirators, so you should have no objections if I suggest that other people could be conspirators as well.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

I keep arguing and people keep arguing with me and I'm winning!

im the northern knight of truth and stfu.

Don't be bitter.

[Famous Amos]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

Personally, I hadnt given this controversy much thought after the super bowl because I thought it was blown out of proportion. Now that it is in the news and it has been for a few weeks, its hard not to think about it. Add in the rivalry between two AFCE teams and the player at the forefront of the controversy being the guy who has influenced at least two rule changed (QBs allowed to handle the balls before the game starts, and the tuck rule) and he has had a history of crying to the refs when things dont go his way, you're asking a lot of Bills fans not to become engaged in this controversy.

I hate that the suffix -gate keeps getting added to controversies. It seems lazy and unimaginative.

Can we compare this cheating to other sports' cheating controversies? Corked bats in baseball, pine tar on hat brims to doctor baseballs, illegally curved sticks, vaseline on defensive players jerseys in football?

With Brady's cheating, he wasn't directly responsible for the ball deflation, he had underlings do his dirty work for him. It was mostly done behind the scenes. And he didn't admit to it when he was caught. It's not as cut and dry as a pitcher getting caught doctoring baseballs or George Brett's bat being inspected for having pine tar too high up on his baseball bat.

I'm enjoying the schadenfreude, I do think it has been blown out of proportion but I appreciate the league's steadfastness in this to maintain the integrity of the game because if they let this slide, then teams and players will continue to push the envelope and see how much they could get away with. It's a slippery slope.

[Famous Amos]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

Brady being a highly visible pro should know that he's under the microscope at all times, being watched by everyone and every move he makes being scrutinized. That comes with fame and fortune. As a result, he should and has been kept to the highest of standards and because hes so talented he shouldnt cheat to gain competitive advantages in the first place. So there should be no surprise that when an athlete as high of caliber as Tom Brady gets busted for cheating, that it becomes a big deal.

On the flipside, nobody cares about marginal players cheating because any competitive advantage gained from however they cheated has much less of an impact on the game as someone who is well known and famous. That doesnt make it right to think that way though. It seems like every year some ass hole triple A talented ball player gets busted for PEDS, gets and accepts his punishment and the collective fan base shrugs and moves on. But when Jason Giambri or Alex Rodriguez gets in trouble for juicing, people notice and have hot takes because those guys made a much greater impact on the game whether its through winning, stats or whatever. Because they juiced during the times they played well then fans feel cheated themselves.

[Famous Amos]

Re: When you discuss deflatgate with non football fans

Now, through the ensuing years, the refs got increasinly sloppy with filling the balls with air and over-filling them. So, since there was no procedure to appeal to the refs before kickoff to check the pressures, it's possible Brady *****ed to his boys about it and his boys promised to make sure they were at the lower limit when the game started. Tom, in return, did some small favors for his boys in appreciation.

Shiva, are you inferring that the refs got sloppy over the years and over filled balls or is this a known fact?