Does it contain a cubicle with a toilet?Originally Posted by Strongman
Why would McNally lie about the configuration of the bathroom, for god's sake?
What difference would it make to him that he'd lie?
It's not like they aren't going to check the bathroom?
This is particularly idiotic.
My tebya razdavim
Well, we both agree that he lied about what he was doing in the bathroom, don't we?
After all, it is your contention that he was in fact deflating the footballs. All we disagree about is the reason why.
So if he's going to tell one lazy lie, what's stopping him from telling a poorly concocted story about the entire ordeal?
Strongman (05-21-2015)
Ok let's go there. Let's say you're right and McNally was being told by Brady to deflate balls and this one week he failed at his job. It's a violation to tamper with balls period after the ref approves them, we know that. But was the goal to let air out below the 12.5 minimum? These texts from Jaz after the Jets game make that seem questionable at best.
Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right.
Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks
Isn't it possible that Brady wanted the balls a certain way and he felt the refs were ****ing with the balls after he turned them in and he wanted his guy to "fix" them? That would still be illegal but it's a violation without a crime. Fact is there is nothing in the report that indicates Brady wanted the balls below 12.5 PSI.
I actually do believe the refs tried to f*** them. Probably because they were constantly submitting underinflated balls and were tired of it. As for McNally, I just think McNally has done it for so long, they he simply knows to stick a needle in, count to 2 Mississippi and the balls will be close to Brady's preference pressure (which wouldn't work though, if the refs overinflated the balls to 16 psi).
So in your mind the refs diligently test all balls and the entire ref staff never said a word to the Patriots or to the league that NE was consistently submitting balls below regulation? Instead they just overinflate them? Seems doubtful but if so shame on them. I don't think NE is alone on this by the way. And if I'm right the refs would be ignoring all teams submitting over or underinflated balls. Even if NE was alone in this it would probably have been enough if the refs complained to the league that they would have taken away the QB's control of the balls. No?
I think a ref was just giving them a hint that they were on to them and superinflated it to make his point. He probably didn't want to delay the game by reporting it to the NFL and figured a subtle hint like that would give Brady a message. Just a guess. Could be other things also.
So given what we know (Jastremski being responsible for prepping, which includes psi level), why would Brady be mad at McNally about a ball being ~16 psi and mention that he must have been under pressure to get them done?
Uh, no. How did you come to that conclusion? What difference does it make if he called a toilet a urinal?
Honest to god, why are you behaving in a manner that you'd condemn if it was a Republican doing it in the politics forum?
"Oh, McNally must be a shifty character prone to lying because he said he ducked into the bathroom to use the urinal. But, THE BATHRROM DOESN'T HAVE A URINAL, IT ONLY HAS A TOILET! Busted!"
WTF is it with you guys, that you'll abandon all pretences of intellectual honesty when you want something bad enough?
It's like America isn't really a country of adults, it's a country of physically mature children.
Mace (05-24-2015)
You're missing my point. Going to the bathroom was his window of time wherein he deflated the balls. You agree he deflated the balls. Ergo, if he says he was going to the bathroom to take a piss, when we both know it was when he was deflating the balls, he was lying about the piss.Uh, no. How did you come to that conclusion? What difference does it make if he called a toilet a urinal?
Honest to god, why are you behaving in a manner that you'd condemn if it was a Republican doing it in the politics forum?
"Oh, McNally must be a shifty character prone to lying because he said he ducked into the bathroom to use the urinal. But, THE BATHRROM DOESN'T HAVE A URINAL, IT ONLY HAS A TOILET! Busted!"
WTF is it with you guys, that you'll abandon all pretences of intellectual honesty when you want something bad enough?
It's like America isn't really a country of adults, it's a country of physically mature children.
Yep! It demonstrates he was lying to NFL investigators and isn't a credible person. Of course there's always some stupid person who likes to argue and comes up with something like, "If he's not credible, then why should believe the texts between him and Jastrewski?" The answer for that is, just like a police investigation when people are wiretapped, they can reasonable believe they tell the truth when communicating with each other.
He didn't have to delay the game, just let the league know if as you feel this was a chronic issue they were aware about.
True, but it's sort of pointless to speculate why a ball was around 16 psi because it could be so many things... it could be intentional misdeed by the ref or a simple mistake. There's really not enough information there about why it happened in that one case. It could be dozens of other things. Really the only thing it is useful for is showing:
1) That Brady was very aware of ball pressures during games (contrary to what he said in the press conference).
2) That it was probably rare that something like this happened because Brady made such a big deal about it.
3) Brady sent a cryptic message to Jastrewski about McNally being under stress to get the balls done.
I think #3 is the most important.
1. No, I HAVEN'T agreed he deflated the balls. Treating wishes as facts gets you things like the invasion of Iraq. In case you wanna squawk, I have never said definitively that he did or didn't deflate the balls. Why would I? There has been no confession and though the evidence is flimsy at best, it's still not logical to have a definitive yes or no position.
2. Since your ergo depends on something I've never agreed to, your point is irrelevant.
3. And my point still stands that since this is his stadium, where he's been working for years, he's undoubtedly used the facilities many times, so saying urinal when he actually meant toilet is a simple mis-statement, and not a nefarious lie.
Non-football fans I know never mention it. That's why they're considered non-football fans. They don't know about it nor do they care.
Of course not. While you keep twisting in the wind, I'm going to bow out gracefully from this. I had hoped you were capable of having a reasonable conversation with someone who isn't reveling in declaring the Pats "cheaters" every other sentence, but I should have known you're not willing to plant your feet long enough to make a consistent argument.
Translation? "You won't let me win so I'm taking my totally within spec football and going home!"
You never let anybody win. You drag things out and change your arguments ad nauseum until people give up. This is me giving up. There's no point in having this conversation with you if your entire thought process is "It doesn't matter what I argue, since I know every argument I make is right, even if they contradict each other all over the place."
Aside from this particular issue, could you please name me an instance where I should have let someone else "win" and didn't? I like to think that my education, ideas and process dictate my positions because they're well thought out and scrupulously objective.
Where have I failed?
We know you like to think that. Most of the time it's true. But then there are situations like this one, where you have no steady position. Your take keeps changing. In one post, McNally deflated the balls because the refs weren't doing their job. In the next, you never said McNally deflated the balls.
So, aside from THIS issue, you can't think of a specific incidence of me not allowing someone to "win", even though they deserved it? Is this correct?
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