Bills O-Line...

[Yasgur's Farm]

Not as bad as the doom and gloomers would lead us to believe...

1) Addition of Incognito.
2) Addition of Miller.
3) Maturing of Henderson, Richardson, and Kujo... However insignificant that sounds.
4) Proper usage of Urbik... Better than the general fan's opinion.
5) Better health of Williams... Word is he can man the swing tackle back-up need (Fingers crossed).
6) Better O-line coaching.
7) Better OC... Utilizing talent properly.
8) Better head coaching... Not holding grudges.

vs

Losses... Pears and Hairston.

[swiper]

TE upgrades also.

[SpikedLemonade]

Don't worry if the OL sucks as I expect they might, most fans will blame the QB and the RBs.

[SpikedLemonade]

TE upgrades also.

None of the TEs are inline blockers. How does that help the OL? Losing the one inline TE we had to the Raiders would hurt the situation.

[OpIv37]

Not as bad as the doom and gloomers would lead us to believe...

1) Addition of Incognito.
2) Addition of Miller.
3) Maturing of Henderson, Richardson, and Kujo... However insignificant that sounds.
4) Proper usage of Urbik... Better than the general fan's opinion.
5) Better health of Williams... Word is he can man the swing tackle back-up need (Fingers crossed).
6) Better O-line coaching.
7) Better OC... Utilizing talent properly.
8) Better head coaching... Not holding grudges.

vs

Losses... Pears and Hairston.

1. Hasn't played in a year and a half- no one knows how good he will be.
2. A 3rd round rookie? Just like we relied on rookies to fix the OL last year? Ha
3. Every year people say we are going to get better because of "rookie improvement." Every year, it fails to happen. Not that no rookie ever improves, but they never improve enough to make a unit as a whole better. Also, essentially this comes down to counting on guys to play better than they have ever proven they can play.
4. Once again, assuming he can play better than he has proven.
5. Maybe
6 and 7- coaching can only go so far without talent.
8. huh?

Losses- agreed, no big deal.

[Mace]

None of the TEs are inline blockers. How does that help the OL? Losing the one inline TE we had to the Raiders would hurt the situation.

A defense can key on the obvious. Pass catching TE's prevent stacking and swarming the box, your OL has less people to worry about coming from everywhere if you have outlet threats. Lee Smith entering the game said "running play, stack and swarm the box, even if he catches it he's not going anywhere."

[Mace]

1. Hasn't played in a year and a half- no one knows how good he will be.
2. A 3rd round rookie? Just like we relied on rookies to fix the OL last year? Ha
3. Every year people say we are going to get better because of "rookie improvement." Every year, it fails to happen. Not that no rookie ever improves, but they never improve enough to make a unit as a whole better. Also, essentially this comes down to counting on guys to play better than they have ever proven they can play.
4. Once again, assuming he can play better than he has proven.
5. Maybe
6 and 7- coaching can only go so far without talent.
8. huh?

Losses- agreed, no big deal.

Huge changes just for scheme. Roman is not all about zone blocking, running his linemen all over the place to find their assignment. Run blocking is also easier for young linemen (and even old ones), is all about the obvious physicality. They really do have plenty of talent on the line, talent being potential, considering the above. We just won't be looking at complex long developing pass plays where zone blocking pass protection technique is essential.

Plows. They want plows, not zippy wee shriner cars driven by fat guys this year. Honestly they have to count on guys playing better than they have ever proven they can play, one is a rookie, 3 have exclusive experience under the terrible Marrone/Morris combo. Glenn, Woods and Urbik have been just fine at points in their careers.

Wait and see what happens, I don't think the OL will be the biggest issue though.

[cookie G]

Don't worry if the OL sucks as I expect they might, most fans will blame the QB and the RBs.

People like rattling off names as if it means something.

It was like a few years ago when talking about replacing Levitre, people would say..

"we have Colin Brown, Zach Chibane, Chris Scott, David Snow, Thomas Welch, Sam Young, don't act like we don't have any guards on the roster...one of those guys is bound to be a quality starter..I don't know what else people want!"

[YardRat]

Hopefully we get the five best guys out there and they gel real quickly. Not that I expect it to be worse, but the other sign of the coin is...

1-Incognito lost it in his absence.
2-Miller pulls a KuJo.
3-Henderson, Richardson and KuJo don't improve.
4-Urbik hit a wall and can't recover.
5-Williams can't stay healthy, and struggles as swing.
As Op pointed out, 6-7-8 would be moot if the first five come to fruition.

That being said, I'm rooting for a real uptick from this group...they've got the potential, they just need to go out and prove it. If the stars align and the young guys improve a lot and find their place, the only missing piece going into next year would be a dominant center.

[OpIv37]

Huge changes just for scheme. Roman is not all about zone blocking, running his linemen all over the place to find their assignment. Run blocking is also easier for young linemen (and even old ones), is all about the obvious physicality. They really do have plenty of talent on the line, talent being potential, considering the above. We just won't be looking at complex long developing pass plays where zone blocking pass protection technique is essential.

Plows. They want plows, not zippy wee shriner cars driven by fat guys this year. Honestly they have to count on guys playing better than they have ever proven they can play, one is a rookie, 3 have exclusive experience under the terrible Marrone/Morris combo. Glenn, Woods and Urbik have been just fine at points in their careers.

Wait and see what happens, I don't think the OL will be the biggest issue though.

So, they added scheme without adding players who fit that scheme? Huh?

And "potential" is just a sunshine-and-roses way of saying "hasn't done **** yet."

[Mace]

So, they added scheme without adding players who fit that scheme? Huh?

And "potential" is just a sunshine-and-roses way of saying "hasn't done **** yet."

Well no, they drafted players before who didn't fit the scheme and now added scheme to players who fit it.

No argument about your definition of potential, but I gave you reasons why their potential wasn't going anywhere. Makes no sense whatever to just shuck and replace them because they didn't do well under the legendary line guru Marrone and his handpicked master of OL Pat Morris. You know what Morris is doing right now....nothing. No one wants him.

So they added a more OL friendly scheme, better coaching (Roman/Kromer have some rep) for their trainees, and it's bad because they had a poorly thought out scheme and a worse set of coaches to influence your opinion, because it's the fault of the trainees ?

There are better flaws to watch down the road, like how we get points in high scoring games where we blitz too much to stop the run effectively with a marquee running back inclined to dance sideways and dazzling receivers hoping someone can throw to them while they are running around.

[Mace]

People like rattling off names as if it means something.

It was like a few years ago when talking about replacing Levitre, people would say..

"we have Colin Brown, Zach Chibane, Chris Scott, David Snow, Thomas Welch, Sam Young, don't act like we don't have any guards on the roster...one of those guys is bound to be a quality starter..I don't know what else people want!"

In this case I wasn't one of them. I thought it was dire back then and howled about it. I think it's workable now. So I guess I don't fit into an easily dismissed category. The names can mean something if you get rid of Marrone/Morris, not certainly but can.

Geez, those guys were all pretty well recognized questionable and not thriving on more potential than the coaching staff dreamed of. This is at the least a quality bunch of questionable, now in better circumstances. Give them a game at least, everything is new.

[Night Train]

I'll wait until camp and the pre-season for some actual evidence either way.

Maybe they'll receive some actual coaching this year and have a plan. The RB, WR and TE positions are significantly better on paper. ID a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly, get some run blocking and we got something here.

I'm in no hurry to start crying after a promising off-season.

[X-Era]

Hopefully we get the five best guys out there and they gel real quickly. Not that I expect it to be worse, but the other sign of the coin is...

1-Incognito lost it in his absence.
2-Miller pulls a KuJo.
3-Henderson, Richardson and KuJo don't improve.
4-Urbik hit a wall and can't recover.
5-Williams can't stay healthy, and struggles as swing.
As Op pointed out, 6-7-8 would be moot if the first five come to fruition.

That being said, I'm rooting for a real uptick from this group...they've got the potential, they just need to go out and prove it. If the stars align and the young guys improve a lot and find their place, the only missing piece going into next year would be a dominant center.

Who's your five best if you had to name them?

I'd go:
Wood
Glenn
Henderson
Incognito
Williams or Urbik

I fully think that a young guy will emerge this year. Probably Miller. Maybe Kujo.

[swiper]

Not sure who the best five will end up being. I'm sure there will end up being a surprise or two.

[YardRat]

Who's your five best if you had to name them?

I'd go:
Wood
Glenn
Henderson
Incognito
Williams or Urbik

I fully think that a young guy will emerge this year. Probably Miller. Maybe Kujo.

Right now I would say Glenn-Incognito-Wood-Urbik-Henderson. That means we're basically relying on coaching and Incognito to make the unit better, and those are the only real differences from the end of last year. Wood and Urbik are known commodities, Glenn may still have room to grow, and Henderson definitely needs to make a leap. I hope KuJo and Richardson can improve, and Miller can contribute, but wary of counting on that too much.Would be thrilled if the young guys show the ability to become Glenn and Henderson at tackle, two of Miller, Richardson and KuJo to develop enough to man the guard spots.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The line improved quite a bit after Marone let Urbik out of the doghouse last season... I'd expect solid play from him but would be more than happy if Miller (or Richardson/Kujo) beat him out of the starting spot.

[Strongman]

I'm expecting them to play better, but I really wish they would get more 1st round talent in the o-line. It needs more studs.

[SpikedLemonade]

What fans are forgetting is just how bad our OL was last year and therefore just how much they need to improve just to be average.

Here is an analysis someone did using PFF OL Grades:

Top 5 Worst OLs:

1. Rams: -86; -17.2
2. Bills: -63; -12.6
3. Dolphins: -62.7; -12.54
4. Chargers: -60.8; -12.16
5. Cardinals: -54.7; -10.94

Top 5 OLs:

1. Eagles: 87; 17.4
2. Cowboys: 76.5; 15.3
3. Ravens: 66.1; 13.22
4. Packers: 60.6; 12.12
5. Texans: 45.2; 9.04
   
   http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments...y_ol_in_every/

[SpikedLemonade]

For those who's memories may not be fresh, please watch the Bills @ Raiders game again from last year.

Henderson plus a couple other OLs were complete dog crap.

They were simply beat up.